SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
5/14-5/16 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on May 16, 2013 20:02:43 GMT -5
And hey, speaking of disasters, looks like Hanrahan did have TJ after all. And the flexor tendon, AND some bone chips. Must have been buy two, get one free day at Dr. Andrew's practice.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 16, 2013 20:21:37 GMT -5
Doubront was ridiculously lucky to only give up one run tonight. He's a disaster out there. Meanwhile De La Rosa had an almost identical night against AAA talent and I keep reading how people think he could be a future top end starter. Go figure. Not sure why Farrell brought Felix back out. He threw exactly one strike in his last 11 pitches before his final four pitch walk.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on May 16, 2013 20:27:57 GMT -5
De La Rosa is recovering from a TJ, and he's got a better stuff to start with. So there's that.
I was shocked to see Doubront back out there too. I guess the point is to try to save the bullpen, but I'd rather just try to win this game than take a chance on gaining some theoretical advantage in future games. And now of course they'll get neither.
|
|
|
Post by station13 on May 16, 2013 21:02:50 GMT -5
Doubront is atyipical dancing around mines start.
|
|
|
Post by godot on May 16, 2013 21:11:07 GMT -5
Texas seems to be hitting well. Probably have a good hitting coach. What's his name, Magadan? I wonder if he would have the same results with this Sox team as the current duo, just wondering?
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 16, 2013 21:13:40 GMT -5
So is this a white flag - Tazawaout in the 8th to get some work?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 21:32:49 GMT -5
WMB!!!!
|
|
|
Post by marrcus on May 16, 2013 21:34:41 GMT -5
Bases loaded. And WMB converts and the carpet takes it to the wall.
Tazawa will get it done!
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on May 16, 2013 21:34:55 GMT -5
Did not see that coming.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 16, 2013 21:36:19 GMT -5
Wow - nice gut check by Middlebrooks. Way to bury a slump.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on May 16, 2013 21:38:48 GMT -5
It's always nice to win a few games they didn't deserve to win. Really shakes you out of that 2012 mentality.
EDIT: of course, I am being far too premature with this post. There's still the bottom of the ninth...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 21:56:01 GMT -5
Stole this one, now run like thieves redsox!!
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on May 16, 2013 22:01:31 GMT -5
Stole this one, now run like thieves redsox!!
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on May 16, 2013 22:03:43 GMT -5
Great sportsnight for Boston! It was great to see Middlebrooks get a badly needed clutch hit.
Can't say Doubront did anything to make me feel better about him. Even when he doesn't allow runs, he walks too many guys and can't get thru the middle innings. He's never going to be more than fringe if he keeps this up.
And the Sox bullpen makes me very nervous. The 9th inning has been an adventure this year.
It was a great win. Hopefully with Buchholz going tomorrow, the Sox can keep it going.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 16, 2013 22:12:17 GMT -5
Great, great win.
|
|
|
Post by marrcus on May 16, 2013 22:32:08 GMT -5
"did not see that coming." ----------------------------
Understandable. RS are now only 2/16 when trailing after 6 in.
|
|
|
Post by okin15 on May 16, 2013 22:36:36 GMT -5
speaking of disasters, did anyone read Edes' writeup? The man has turned in some good work over the last couple years, but tonights recap is a true disaster: espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/27353/rapid-reaction-red-sox-4-rays-3-2ADD: I mean, the whole thing about the archer, and not telling us whether WMB took the 100-miler as a strike or ball, and then using "calibrated" to talk about Doubront's abilities... The transitions are terrible, the prose is wordy, and just in general, it's choppy and rough. I'm sure he'll have a good article later, but c'mon man, your job is to WRITE!!!!
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on May 17, 2013 8:42:01 GMT -5
Doubront was ridiculously lucky to only give up one run tonight. He's a disaster out there. Meanwhile De La Rosa had an almost identical night against AAA talent and I keep reading how people think he could be a future top end starter. Go figure. Not sure why Farrell brought Felix back out. He threw exactly one strike in his last 11 pitches before his final four pitch walk. Rubby and Doubront couldn't be more different. You have a power guy who was throwing in extremely windy conditions walk 3 guys and V.s a Lfthanded nibbler in a dome walking 6 and throwing the ball to the backstop, or the on deck circle. Rubby gave - up no earned runs, was it clean ? No , but he's a far cry from Felix Doubront yet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 8:54:25 GMT -5
So this game made clear that the Sox bullpen pitching is thin thin thin. I posted this idea in another thread but maybe it will get a response here.
#1 Sign David Aardsma - free agent.
#2 Move Franklin Morales to 60 day DL, eligible to come off May 21 and won't be ready until then anyways.
#3 Option DeLaTorre.
#4 Hope the 09-10 version of Aardsma shows up.
Even if you DFA Aardsma once Morales is activated he might agree to a minor league assignment if he clears waivers which would increase overall depth in the organization.
Only pitchers on 40 man roster who aren't in the majors or on the DL are Bard, DeLaRosa, Aceves, Britton, DeLarosa, Webster and Wright. I'd rather have Aardsma come out of the pen tonight than any of them for different reasons.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on May 17, 2013 10:34:24 GMT -5
Even the good (2009-10) David Aardsma had a K/9 rate of 4.4. He was helped some by the friendly Safeco Field dimensions, particularly in 2009 when he gave up a home run on only 4.9% of his fly balls. His good seasons also came only slightly more recently than those by Manny Delcarman and Mike Timlin. He might be worth a depth signing to a minor league contract, but putting him in a major league bullpen would basically be throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it sticks.
The biggest things that will help the Red Sox bullpen depth would be Dempster and Lackey pitching deeper into games (which Dempster was doing a pretty good job of until his last start, and he's still averaging 6 innings), and a willingness to use some of the lower leverage relievers (Wilson, Mortensen) for 2-3 innings sometimes. When you use a back-end arm like that for one or two outs, it puts a lot of pressure and burns through the depth quickly.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on May 17, 2013 10:41:17 GMT -5
The biggest things that will help the Red Sox bullpen depth would be Dempster and Lackey pitching deeper into games (which Dempster was doing a pretty good job of until his last start, and he's still averaging 6 innings), and a willingness to use some of the lower leverage relievers (Wilson, Mortensen) for 2-3 innings sometimes. When you use a back-end arm like that for one or two outs, it puts a lot of pressure and burns through the depth quickly. ^ THIS. To me this seems like Farrell's biggest problem in managing the bullpen. I just cannot figure this out. He's even used these guys for short stints in games that weren't particularly close. If it's a one run game in the 7th, ok, I get it. But a 4-run game with no sign of them struggling, I don't get it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 12:08:48 GMT -5
Yup. Not that this is a bad thing and teams do that all the time.
The main thing that worries me more than the actual options at the major league level is the current depth. Someone else gets injured before Bailey returns they are basically looking at giving Pedro Beato or Chris Martin a chance. Is that better than Aardsma? I am not so sure.
FWIW Boston was listed as one of the teams thought to be interested.
There are a few reasons why Farrell may not be so keen on using Wilson and Mortenson for longer stints. First off they may not be as effective over 2-3 innings. Secondly he may like the other bullpen options better later in the game such that they aren't going to pitch 2-3 innings even if the game is a medium blow out, 4 run lead, and they don't show signs of struggling.
After Mortenson's performance last night I can't say I blame him. Even if he's pitched well earlier in the game he can easily turn a seemingly safe four run lead into a having the tying run at the plate in the blink of an eye even if he's pitched well earlier in the game.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on May 17, 2013 12:38:04 GMT -5
Mortensen has a 3.47 ERA since coming to the Red Sox, and is a converted starter. There seems to be this perception of relief pitchers that they shouldn't give up runs, ever. Mortensen isn't a shut-down guy, and is never going to be, but he can eat 2-4 innings at a time while resting the bullpen, and limiting damage. He's a better pitcher than Aceves, and can stretch out longer than other guys on the staff.
Almost no pitcher is as effective over 2-3 innings as they are over one, because fatigue is a real thing. The question should be whether a pitcher loses significant effectiveness after one inning. Some do, either because they fatigue quickly, or because they are able to amp up for short bursts and increase their effectiveness significantly doing so. That doesn't mean that relievers shouldn't pitch 2-3 innings. I mean, Jon Lester would probably have a sub-2.50 ERA if he was used in one inning stints, because he he could streamline his repertoire and worry less about pacing. That wouldn't make him a more useful pitcher, nor would it make him more valuable to the team. If using Mortensen for multi-inning stints means he's a 4.00-4.25 ERA guy rather than a 3.50-3.75 one, that's worth to not have to overuse Uehara, Tazawa, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 17, 2013 13:08:32 GMT -5
Mortensen has a 3.47 ERA since coming to the Red Sox, and is a converted starter. There seems to be this perception of relief pitchers that they shouldn't give up runs, ever. Mortensen isn't a shut-down guy, and is never going to be, but he can eat 2-4 innings at a time while resting the bullpen, and limiting damage. He's a better pitcher than Aceves, and can stretch out longer than other guys on the staff. Almost no pitcher is as effective over 2-3 innings as they are over one, because fatigue is a real thing. The question should be whether a pitcher loses significant effectiveness after one inning. Some do, either because they fatigue quickly, or because they are able to amp up for short bursts and increase their effectiveness significantly doing so. That doesn't mean that relievers shouldn't pitch 2-3 innings. I mean, Jon Lester would probably have a sub-2.50 ERA if he was used in one inning stints, because he he could streamline his repertoire and worry less about pacing. That wouldn't make him a more useful pitcher, nor would it make him more valuable to the team. If using Mortensen for multi-inning stints means he's a 4.00-4.25 ERA guy rather than a 3.50-3.75 one, that's worth to not have to overuse Uehara, Tazawa, etc. Well said. Posters need to temper their expectations to the ebb and flow of the season. There will be ups and downs for the teams - both the Sox and their farm clubs - and for pitchers and hitters of course. That shouldn't stop people from venting their frustrations every once in a while, but give it a pause before you push the post button. All the players go through cycles, some of it induced by the game itself, Statistical variation comes in many forms, BABIP being the most obvious example. I was reminded of that again as I watched the Bruins game last night with pucks clanging all around the net - posts and top. Same thing happens along the foul lines in baseball, and with pitchers and the umpiring. A missed call can lead, on the very next pitch, to runs. Pitcher usage is a tough call, no doubt about it. But be considerate. Mortensen was a first round draft choice who's got some value as James makes clear. He's found a niche and we, as fans of the team, should be glad he has. As for Wilson, he's just getting started with his career, just learning the league and its hitters. Today's "hack" may be tomorrow's 8th inning sure thing. That might be good to remember.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 14:35:53 GMT -5
I don't think that Farrell's reluctance to use him for longer stints has as much to do with his statistics as it does to have to do with his tools. Mortenson has a below average fastball, and his command as we saw last night isn't all that wonderful. He does have a good changeup which is why he's in the major leagues at all. You are right guys with this profile can be useful but often if you extend them too much they can go from effective to zero in quite a hurry. That's probably why Farrell would prefer to take Mortenson out of game in the seventh inning even in cases where the team is ahead by four or five runs, and even if it means sometimes using Tazawa or Uerhara in cases where you would prefer not to. As knowledgeable fans we should discuss and criticize pitcher usage because that's why we have a message board. But when we do so, we should remember that the coaching staff knows these players much better than we do and that could be what is playing in to usage patterns that might make very little sense to us. It's very easy to be brilliant when you are behind a keyboard
|
|
|