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5/14-5/16 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by Jonathan Singer on May 13, 2013 20:53:35 GMT -5
5/14 Red Sox (RHP John Lackey 1-3 2.82) @ Rays (Matt Moore 6-0 2.14) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/MLBN/WEEI5/15 Red Sox (LHP Jon Lester 5-0 2.73) @ Rays (LHP David Price 1-3 4.78) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/ESPN/WEEI5/16 Red Sox (RHP Clay Buchholz 6-0 1.69) @ Rays (RHP Alex Cobb 4-2 3.09) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEIMLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 13, 2013 23:08:09 GMT -5
Luckily, planned trip to St. Pete coincided with this series. I'll be there Tuesday in the stands (as a fan, not working or anything). Pumped to get a look at Moore.
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Post by dmaineah on May 14, 2013 7:21:41 GMT -5
I thought Doubront was starting on the 16th
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,827
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Post by steveofbradenton on May 14, 2013 7:49:34 GMT -5
I thought Doubront was starting on the 16th I would prefer he start on the 16th of never. BIG series for "the good guys". Lets hope we start to turn it around.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 14, 2013 8:38:49 GMT -5
I thought Doubront was starting on the 16th I would prefer he start on the 16th of never. BIG series for "the good guys". Lets hope we start to turn it around. Boston.com lists Doubront. RedSox.com lists Buchholz. I bet it's the former, but we'll see.
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Post by James Dunne on May 14, 2013 9:32:37 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2013 11:54:37 GMT -5
Jeez, if Sox could get some run production maybe they could put some good use to Lackey's performances (and Jon, set your feet this time before you throw to 2nd for the double play).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2013 12:32:10 GMT -5
Oh I hope not. That would line Doubront up for May 26th against Cleveland and I'm going to that game at Fenway. I would much prefer to see Buchholz, who I thought I was going to see. I guess Farrell's breaking up Lester and Buchholz figuring the bullpen will require less work when Lester and Buchholz pitch and would be more available for when Doubront pitches his 5 innings.
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Post by James Dunne on May 14, 2013 13:21:40 GMT -5
Trying to line up the starting pitcher three weeks early almost never works! Learned that as a 17 year old trying to get Pedro tickets.
Good point about wanting to break up Lester and Buchholz. I think there may be something to that - if not, I think it's a positive consequence. I think people have soured on Doubront too quickly though. He still has a 2.83 FIP and 3.45 xFIP. I know it's a small sample size, but so is his high ERA this year. The drop in velocity is discouraging, but his ground ball rates have gone up. Most of all, it's tough to get a read of any value on a guy when they jerk him in and out of the rotation like this. If the drop in velocity is due to an injury, put him on the DL. If not, give him his reps and see where he stands.
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Post by hammerhead on May 14, 2013 13:56:52 GMT -5
Anyone see a line-up yet? there was some specualtion that Farrell would move Pedey back to his customary 2nd spot with Papi 3rd and Napoli 4th ?
I'm not sure that's the problem though...
I'd like to see Lavarnway get a start against either of the Lefthanders here.
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Post by grandsalami on May 14, 2013 14:14:33 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 2m Red Sox v. Moore: Ellsbury, Victorino, Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Drew, Lavarnway. Lackey.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 14:34:11 GMT -5
When will Doubront get his next start? I'm not sure what the case is, if he is injured or what, but continually skipping his start will not help. He already has very good stuff, he just needs to work on control, consistency, and working deeper into games. If that happens, he can be a good starting pitcher.
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Post by threeifbaerga on May 14, 2013 14:53:11 GMT -5
I think people have soured on Doubront too quickly though. He still has a 2.83 FIP and 3.45 xFIP. I know it's a small sample size, but so is his high ERA this year. The drop in velocity is discouraging, but his ground ball rates have gone up. Most of all, it's tough to get a read of any value on a guy when they jerk him in and out of the rotation like this. If the drop in velocity is due to an injury, put him on the DL. If not, give him his reps and see where he stands. I don't get this. They've "jerked him in and out of the rotation"? He stunk, so they pulled him out of it. And is it really a small sample size if it goes all the way at least August of last year? Maybe further if you consider that his WHIP has been awful. . . his whole career? He's extremely hittable. He walks a lot of guys. As for the ultimatum that if he's not injured just let him stink it up in the rotation until he's "fixed," that seems incredibly short sighted. Are there only two ways to fix a pitcher? I don't think it's at all unreasonable to keep a guy out and have him work on his conditioning. It doesn't require a DL trip (not to mention it's against the rules to DL a player if he's not injured), they can still use him for long relief, and they can still have him work with Nieves and Farrell while hopefully getting better results from guys who have a chance out there right now, because Felix doesn't.
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2013 15:17:58 GMT -5
And The Lavarnway shall be called up from the wilderness and he shall leadeth them from the place of darkness to the place of light (i.e. one more right-handed bat against lefties, and a potential higher OBP candidate to perhaps advance some of the legion of runners who've been stranded on base).
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Post by tjb21 on May 14, 2013 15:27:05 GMT -5
Good for Lavarnway.
And my eyes get a day off from seeing Salty slandered constantly. But seriously.
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Post by James Dunne on May 14, 2013 15:43:16 GMT -5
I think people have soured on Doubront too quickly though. He still has a 2.83 FIP and 3.45 xFIP. I know it's a small sample size, but so is his high ERA this year. The drop in velocity is discouraging, but his ground ball rates have gone up. Most of all, it's tough to get a read of any value on a guy when they jerk him in and out of the rotation like this. If the drop in velocity is due to an injury, put him on the DL. If not, give him his reps and see where he stands. I don't get this. They've "jerked him in and out of the rotation"? He stunk, so they pulled him out of it. And is it really a small sample size if it goes all the way at least August of last year? Maybe further if you consider that his WHIP has been awful. . . his whole career? He's extremely hittable. He walks a lot of guys. As for the ultimatum that if he's not injured just let him stink it up in the rotation until he's "fixed," that seems incredibly short sighted. Are there only two ways to fix a pitcher? I don't think it's at all unreasonable to keep a guy out and have him work on his conditioning. It doesn't require a DL trip (not to mention it's against the rules to DL a player if he's not injured), they can still use him for long relief, and they can still have him work with Nieves and Farrell while hopefully getting better results from guys who have a chance out there right now, because Felix doesn't. Going back to last August may be a small sample, or it may mean he's not all that good. What are we talking about, ten starts? He's been unlucky on balls in play so far this year - his strikeout rates have been good, and he's allowed just one home run, and his ground ball rates are up. There are some factors that show positives, some that show negatives. In his only bad start, he gave up 10 singles to a good hitting team. That screams fluke to me. I'll be honest - I've been defending Doubront the last couple weeks, and it feels kind of funny because I don't actually think he's all that great of a pitcher. I do know that he's only 25, and that whatever has been done with him the past two weeks doesn't seem eminently sensible. I'm not advocating having him "stinking it up in the rotation until he's 'fixed'" because I don't think he'll stink if he's given regular work - he had a 4.86 ERA last year, and a 4.24 ERA this year before the Texas start blew him up. My guess is that he's a pitcher in the 4.40-4.80 ERA range, which makes him a fifth starter, which is exactly what the Red Sox need right now. If he's not improving by July, by all means send him off to the bullpen. But the Red Sox have scraped away what little depth they have for what seems like an overreaction to a bad start against the Rangers. 2003 through 2008 was fun and all, but most teams can't just cut everyone who isn't an all-star. Felix Doubront (and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who faces similar criticism), aren't superstars and may have limited upside, but they're acceptable back end major leaguers for a team that doesn't have better options.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2013 15:50:34 GMT -5
Trying to line up the starting pitcher three weeks early almost never works! Learned that as a 17 year old trying to get Pedro tickets. Already had the tickets in hand actually. I only tried to "line up" the pitchers once and that was when the Sox were playing the Yankees in NY and Pedro was slated to pitch against Roger Clemens. Couldn't believe that game wasn't sold out, but we were in RF that day in May 2000 when Trot Nixon broke up a scoreless duel in the 9th with a HR and Pedro held on for a 2-0 win. Anyways getting back to Doubront, he's their best option for the #5 spot until Webster is ready to seize the spot in the rotation. Odds are that somebody will get hurt and they'll need Doubront sooner or later. I'm not writing him off, but I am concerned that with a lot on the line he didn't get himself into shape and that his FB velocity has dipped. I doubt he's the kind of guy who can "trick" the hitter to succeed. My guess is he'll stick until the new wave of pitching graduates and he'll probably wind up as trade bait.
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Post by mainesox on May 14, 2013 16:44:08 GMT -5
Going back to last August may be a small sample, or it may mean he's not all that good. What are we talking about, ten starts? He's been unlucky on balls in play so far this year - his strikeout rates have been good, and he's allowed just one home run, and his ground ball rates are up. There are some factors that show positives, some that show negatives. In his only bad start, he gave up 10 singles to a good hitting team. That screams fluke to me. He's been a little unlucky maybe, but not as unlucky as a cursory look at his BABIP might suggest. He's got a 27% LD rate, and while a high GB rate (50%) is good in general, ground balls have a higher BABIP than fly balls; using an xBABIP calculator his batted ball data suggests a ?.360 BABIP.
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Post by jmei on May 14, 2013 17:08:57 GMT -5
I think Doubront got time off more because of the troubling velocity decline than because of his performance on the field. Yeah, his strikeout rates were still excellent, but his average fastball velocity dropped from 92.7 last year to 90.1 this year. That's a huge warning sign from a scouting perspective, especially if it's accompanied by any sort of arm weakness or pain. If he just needs a start skipped to get his arm right, I don't see the big deal.
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Post by godot on May 14, 2013 17:12:41 GMT -5
Just noticed that James Loney is leading the Rays in hitting with a 376 average and also has 20 rbis ( 109 abats). His line drive rate is also very high. Does Maddon and staff have a magic wand? I recall an article that had Maddon telling Loney to just be a good defender and a line drive hitter, forget the long ball. Seems it is working so far
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 14, 2013 17:16:32 GMT -5
Loney = .404 BABIP.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 17:17:06 GMT -5
It's worth noting that although Gomes is starting tonight against the lefty Moore, and that is why he was acquired, Nava is still hitting lefties so far this year better than Gomes is. Nava is 5 for 21 (.238/.333/.524/.857) verse southpaws, while Gomes is 6 for 32 (/.188/.366/.438/.803) against them. This is still a VERY SMALL sample size though. I know that Gomes has to get playing time because he is getting paid 5 million, has good power, and he was signed to play against southpaws, but Nava is currently hitting them better. In addition, Nava plays great defense in left field, while Gomes is more of a liability in the field. Just bringing out a point. I'm not saying Gomes should by any means be benched, but eventually, Nava could be in for a little more playing time if he continues to hit well and Gomes continues to struggle.
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2013 17:20:06 GMT -5
But Gomes gives good clubhouse unity guy character. And he has a great beard and tatoos and a reputation for crushing lefties, even though to date he hasn't for the Sox - that's worth playing time, right?
ADDED: That was sarcasm. Hated the signing then, hate it now. For the record I was all for Hunter on a 1 year overpay.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 14, 2013 17:46:41 GMT -5
But Gomes gives good clubhouse unity guy character. And he has a great beard and tatoos and a reputation for crushing lefties, even though to date he hasn't for the Sox - that's worth playing time, right? ADDED: That was sarcasm. Hated the signing then, hate it now. For the record I was all for Hunter on a 1 year overpay. You may have been for signing Hunter on a 1 year overpay but I doubt Torii Hunter would have been all for a 1 year overpay, and in the end its his opinion that matters the most. It sounded like he really wanted to play in Detroit and that he wanted multiple years. Unless you wanted to see the Sox sign him for $20 - $22 million for that one year, I doubt there was ever a chance Hunter was coming to Boston.
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Post by Guidas on May 14, 2013 18:25:48 GMT -5
Well I was also for trading any 2 prospects for JUpton, too. But yeah on Hinter. I just knew there'd be the inevitable "what did you want?" questions
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