|
Post by mattpicard on Sept 24, 2014 10:48:33 GMT -5
If we could get Strasburg, I would pack Betts' bags for him I wouldn't. He's only two seasons away from free agency and has already had TJS. Yup. Where as Mookie isn't a FA until 2020 and seems poised to be a highly effective leadoff hitter and flexible defender. There are plenty of pitching options to explore this offseason, both in free agency and the trade market. Who is going to replace Betts at the top of our lineup next season? Castillo? Please. Strasburg has been worth 3.2 bWAR/4.1 fWAR this season. Betts is at 2.0/1.5 while playing in just under 30% of MLB season. Strasburg is an absolutely fantastic pitcher and all, but Mookie is quite special in his own way, and I can't overstate enough how excited I am to have him for six cost-controlled years.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 24, 2014 10:57:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't. He's only two seasons away from free agency and has already had TJS. Yup. Where as Mookie isn't a FA until 2020 and seems poised to be a highly effective leadoff hitter and flexible defender. There are plenty of pitching options to explore this offseason, both in free agency and the trade market. Who is going to replace Betts at the top of our lineup next season? Castillo? Please. Strasburg has been worth 3.2 bWAR/4.1 fWAR this season. Betts is at 2.0/1.5 while playing in just under 30% of MLB season. Strasburg is an absolutely fantastic pitcher and all, but Mookie is quite special in his own way, and I can't overstate enough how excited I am to have him for six cost-controlled years. In reality tho, this is all moot on both our sides because Washington is not moving him.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 24, 2014 11:02:07 GMT -5
Yup. Where as Mookie isn't a FA until 2020 and seems poised to be a highly effective leadoff hitter and flexible defender. There are plenty of pitching options to explore this offseason, both in free agency and the trade market. Who is going to replace Betts at the top of our lineup next season? Castillo? Please. Strasburg has been worth 3.2 bWAR/4.1 fWAR this season. Betts is at 2.0/1.5 while playing in just under 30% of MLB season. Strasburg is an absolutely fantastic pitcher and all, but Mookie is quite special in his own way, and I can't overstate enough how excited I am to have him for six cost-controlled years. In reality tho, this is all moot on both our sides because Washington is not moving him. I hope Boston feels the same way about Betts.
|
|
|
Post by awall on Sept 24, 2014 12:32:54 GMT -5
Move Xander before Betts, please.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 24, 2014 12:38:34 GMT -5
Move Xander before Betts, please. You're ready to give up on him already? They messed with him pretty badly this year, hard to call it quits on a guy after one lost year.
|
|
|
Post by awall on Sept 24, 2014 12:43:01 GMT -5
No, I'd rather keep them both. I'm just saying I am higher on Betts overall.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,285
|
Post by radiohix on Sept 24, 2014 12:49:22 GMT -5
I still don't the logic that makes Castillo the 2015 starting CFer and Mookie the trade ship!
|
|
|
Post by awall on Sept 24, 2014 12:51:07 GMT -5
I think Castillo to the Marlins is a much better trade chip (for us, anyway).
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Sept 24, 2014 13:19:55 GMT -5
Bogey should be an untouchable. Betts is a trade chip.
The logjam in the outfield must be resolved this winter. In my mind, victorino's health is the wild card in the 2015 outfield.
Craig needs to go.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 24, 2014 13:27:45 GMT -5
I think Castillo to the Marlins is a much better trade chip (for us, anyway). I would love to use Castillo as a chip, but to me that would be bad form. That could easily damage the teams reputation with potential free agents in the future. Free agents chose Boston for the national exposure (along with the money), if the thought of being moved right after being signed is in the back of the players mind, that could cost us some players going forward.
|
|
|
Post by awall on Sept 24, 2014 13:39:45 GMT -5
I think Castillo to the Marlins is a much better trade chip (for us, anyway). I would love to use Castillo as a chip, but to me that would be bad form. That could easily damage the teams reputation with potential free agents in the future. Free agents chose Boston for the national exposure (along with the money), if the thought of being moved right after being signed is in the back of the players mind, that could cost us some players going forward. I can definitely see that point.
|
|
|
Post by dcsoxfan on Sept 24, 2014 14:03:02 GMT -5
Mookie Betts is very likely to put up 25 WAR and cost less $40 million over the next six years. To put this in context, Giancarlo Stanton will likely put up 50 WAR and cost between 250 and 300 million over the next ten years.
If one assumes MLB now has an effective salary cap ($189 million), I know which of these players I'd rather have.
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 24, 2014 14:34:23 GMT -5
Take it easy folks, they didn't sign Castillo as a trade piece or are just gonna trade Betts cause they have Castillo. If they trade Betts its because they got something very valuable back.
Anyways here is a nice little wrinkle.
Kevin Thomas @clearthebases During early #RedSox BP, Mookie Betts taking grounders at SS. Why not?
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Sept 24, 2014 14:51:10 GMT -5
Betts has always taken ground balls at SS. Pedroia does as well. It's so they can keep building their arm strength since they don't make long throws from 2B.
ADD: Thomas follows up:
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Sept 24, 2014 15:23:31 GMT -5
Speier tweet
Farrell on Betts: 'With Dustin coming back, we see Mookie as an outfielder, not on the left side of the infield.'
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 24, 2014 15:40:29 GMT -5
Betts has always taken ground balls at SS. Pedroia does as well. It's so they can keep building their arm strength since they don't make long throws from 2B. ADD: Thomas follows up: I blame Chris.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,790
|
Post by nomar on Sept 24, 2014 15:46:03 GMT -5
I would trade Betts before Bogaerts as well. Hoping we keep both obviously.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan1615 on Sept 24, 2014 16:25:23 GMT -5
I think Castillo to the Marlins is a much better trade chip (for us, anyway). Castillo has 0 trade value, unless you eat a lot of salary (which would be a dumb move because Stanton would cost a ton also. The Marlins could've signed him if they wanted him for 72 million Mookie Betts is very likely to put up 25 WAR and cost less $40 million over the next six years. To put this in context, Giancarlo Stanton will likely put up 50 WAR and cost between 250 and 300 million over the next ten years. If one assumes MLB now has an effective salary cap ($189 million), I know which of these players I'd rather have. And I would temper your expectations quite a bit for Mookie
|
|
|
Post by tonyc on Sept 24, 2014 17:53:23 GMT -5
The above post combining Mookie's potential WAR and low salary is how I see things could play out, granted it's early..I'm not trading him for anybody, possibly. He reminds me of a potential Joe Morgan in his prime, one of the most dominating all around speed based players I've ever seen- short, but with so much power and great hit tool the careful pitching elicited walks, after which he stole bases at will, and dominated defensively. Remember, on the downside caution is urged, but his upside is still unestablished and rapidly exploding upward.
|
|
|
Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 24, 2014 18:21:29 GMT -5
... He reminds me of a potential Joe Morgan in his prime ... Let's hope he's a better television analyst.
|
|
|
Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Sept 24, 2014 19:26:30 GMT -5
I would rather have Betts in order: Second, Center, Right, then Third. Second is occupied, Center and Right could be a possibility depending were Castillo is, an Third is open. SS obviously would be more appealing because he valve there or 2nd would be at its highest. But I don't think Xander can be a third baseman at this point--he was even worse there and seemed to hinder his hitting to a degree.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Sept 24, 2014 21:40:21 GMT -5
If I am trading betts, there are very few players in the major leagues that I would include betts in a read for.
And they are sale, darvish, Strasbourg, and maybe hamels.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 24, 2014 21:45:50 GMT -5
If I am trading betts, there are very few players in the major leagues that I would include betts in a read for. And they are sale, darvish, Strasbourg, and maybe hamels. This makes zero sense. "Hi Ben? Jerry Dipoto, we got this kid named mike tr..." "Click". This vetoed trade brought to you by larrycook.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 24, 2014 21:46:58 GMT -5
The above post combining Mookie's potential WAR and low salary is how I see things could play out, granted it's early..I'm not trading him for anybody, possibly. He reminds me of a potential Joe Morgan in his prime, one of the most dominating all around speed based players I've ever seen- short, but with so much power and great hit tool the careful pitching elicited walks, after which he stole bases at will, and dominated defensively. Remember, on the downside caution is urged, but his upside is still unestablished and rapidly exploding upward. Joe Morgan wasn't a "speed player" and to reduce him to that is ridiculous. From 1972 to 1977 he hit .301/.429/.495. If he was a leadfoot DH who stole zero bases during that time he'd have still been one of the best players in the league. As an elite defensive second baseman doing that? I'd have Morgan among my top 30 in history. If Mookie Betts is half as valuable as Joe Morgan over the course of his career he has a good chance of making the Hall of Fame. EDIT: You know all that stuff going on about Derek Jeter right now? Morgan shared Jeter's historically elite bat control, but added significantly better power, speed, and defense. Comparing Betts to Morgan means you are saying that Mookie Betts has a chance to be WAY WAY better than Derek Jeter. Are you comfortable saying that?
|
|
|
Post by tonyc on Sept 24, 2014 23:29:58 GMT -5
Sorry you somewhat misunderstood me James. A "speed based" player with power and excellent hit tool, with dominant defense as I worded it is NOT reducing him to speed alone. It merely differentiates his greatest tool- and it was, Morgan stole nearly 700 bases. I can remember that as his dominant tool for years on Houston- a speedy base-stealing, walking, good fielding player, before he shocked the baseball world by adding power in a 6 year prime with the Reds. He continued his speed even at age 39, still going 18-2 in steals.
In terms of Mookie's upside, again please look carefully at my qualifiers' in the statements "he reminds me of a potential etc... but on the downside caution is urged."
I wanted to point out his potential upside, which given his meteoric upside is yet unestablished- aside from his quickness, speed, coordination, athleticism, he can bench press 275lbs- he is short, plays the same position and has unusual power for his size- granted it's WAY early, but these are some unusual physical similarities to Joe. Perhaps I wanted to silence some of the trade chatter, thanks.
|
|