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2012 MLB Non Sox
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 14, 2013 18:19:50 GMT -5
He sounds like a white guy rapping. Doing his country proud.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 14, 2013 18:33:24 GMT -5
seems like Gonzo and CC could not handle the large market.....
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 14, 2013 18:55:05 GMT -5
Here's what Adrian Gonzalez told USA Today: "Chemistry is something you need to have among the players but also with the owners, the coaches and the front office. It needs to be complete. In Boston we had great chemistry among the players – we loved each other, we were together – but that was only among the players. It wasn't there with the rest. That's why the team didn't win. It needs to be an organization-wide thing.'' www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2013/02/gonzalez_crawfo.html?comments=allMods can move this to another thread if in wrong place What happened to it being God's will? Not that it really matters, but Gonzalez seems to have an extreme aversion to taking responsibility for anything.
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Post by mainesox on Feb 14, 2013 19:18:57 GMT -5
I couldn't care less about the little Bauer/Montero spat, but it seems to me like everyone is missing the fact that Montero didn't need to say anything like what he said. At the very best it shows a complete lack of class on Montero's part.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 14, 2013 19:25:35 GMT -5
It's worth pointing out that in over 1200 plate appearances with the Red Sox, Gonzalez hit .321/.382/.513. What would he have done if he could handle the large market?
As far as his externalizing of the Red Sox problems during his time here, he's hardly the first player to do that. I don't know what he should take responsibility for. He wasn't playing great last year, but he was pretty far from the problem. His boss, who he didn't get along with, got fired. They lost because they couldn't pitch, which wasn't Valentine's fault, but was even less Gonzalez's. So he's misdirecting his blame, but I certainly wouldn't think better of him if he said "I could've played better last year, but the real problem was that Beckett and Lester weren't any good, Buchholz was useless in the first two months, Bard shouldn't have been starting and Aceves is a crazy person."
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Post by mainesox on Feb 14, 2013 21:01:37 GMT -5
I might think better of him if he said Aceves is a crazy person...
I'm only kidding (kinda).
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Post by jmei on Feb 14, 2013 22:52:49 GMT -5
I mean, is Gonzalez wrong? I think it's pretty widely reported and accepted that the coaching staff was in disarray both internally and in relation to the players and the front office. Maybe it's a bit much to blame the team's problems solely on lack of chemistry, but it certainly was a contributing factor.
I mean, Gonzalez didn't stick to the "script," which is a little petty, but it requires great restraint to be asked about it every day and refrain from commenting. Not everyone can have Belichickean discipline.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 15, 2013 6:55:33 GMT -5
Also, Bauer fancies himself as a rapper, only he's hilariously bad at it. If that's not charming, I don't know what is. And I stand by this today. In all seriousness, if Bauer was in a terrible rock band instead, nobody would care. It's the white rapper thing that everyone goes crazy over. Personally, I like that the guy has a chip on his shoulder. He's like Dustin Pedroia, only taller, and losing at rapping instead of losing at cribbage. EDIT: I can't overemphasize how much he's losing at rapping. It's really bad.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 15, 2013 7:57:12 GMT -5
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 15, 2013 8:08:58 GMT -5
I really don't think Crawford deserves to be bashed for saying what he said. He said that the way he was playing made him depressed and made him feel like there wasn't a light at the end of the tunnel - Is there anything wrong with that? I feel bad for the guy. He couldn't get it going and then he had the injuries.
He was playing in an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar people where the chemistry was clearly terrible (toxic even). I don't think there is anything wrong with him saying these things. You could see that this was true just by watching his body language while he was here.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 15, 2013 15:01:46 GMT -5
I rooted just as hard if not harder for Crawford to succeed than anyone when he was here. I never criticized him and it hurt me when he struggled so badly. I point that out to show that I like the guy and I still want him to do well in LA. That being said, I don’t feel bad for him. He got paid a lot of money to come to an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar people. He’s still a person and has feelings, but he’s not a very good professional. Stop your pouting and do what you get paid to do. If any one of us brought his attitude and “body language” to work, we’d get fired. And anyone who wants to say “you can’t help the way you feel” and whatever else, give me a break. You may be technically right, but the rest of the world has to deal with it in an appropriate way and carry it properly. That you can control. You can control your body language. You can control a lot more than society likes to be honest about these days. Carl Crawford should have manned up while he was here and not been a little bitch.
Again coming from someone who REALLY REALLY wanted him to succeed and refused to criticize him and a season ticket hold who tried to cheer him as much as possible to help him out of his funk. The truth is though, he acted like a child. Not the loud mouthed child, but the sitting in the corner by himself “boo hoo my feelings are hurt” child.
He's a nice guy, pretty sensitive too and if he didn't want to be held accountable and be asked to man up then he should have taken a huge discount to stay where he would have been happy. He had full control over that.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 15, 2013 16:52:18 GMT -5
That's a little harsh. The full article is reflective, more than angry. I think he understands what was expected and how it never happened. He can hope that was the worst two-year performance he'll put out there during the rest of his career. As Dylan Hernandez points out in the article, it seemed as if every time he was ready to try it again, another injury de-railed him. It wasn't a great time to be a fan, and it was probably terrible for the players. Toxic may be as good a description as any. Don't forget the press is looking for quotes, that's their job. I still wish him the best and I hope he rebounds. Maybe we'll all feel that way if De La Rosa and Webster deliver.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 15, 2013 17:09:47 GMT -5
He's a nice guy, pretty sensitive too and if he didn't want to be held accountable and be asked to man up then he should have taken a huge discount to stay where he would have been happy. He had full control over that. That's exactly my point: He didn't need to be here, he could have taken less money to go elsewhere where he'd be happier. He was not good at baseball in his time around here and now he's not holding himself accountable for that, instead blaming everything else. And blaming your own poor performance on BAD CHEMISTRY is felonious (thank you Rasheed). I hate when pro athletes except to get pampered to perform the job they're handsomely paid to do. If I'm not doing job but my body language says I'm depressed, my boss won't pity me, he'll tell me to suck it up and just do it. Good riddance to both he and AGon.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 15, 2013 17:44:09 GMT -5
...If I'm not doing job but my body language says I'm depressed, my boss won't pity me, he'll tell me to suck it up and just do it... The ever-tactful Bobby Valentine may have told him to do just that!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 15, 2013 17:47:37 GMT -5
That's exactly my point: He didn't need to be here, he could have taken less money to go elsewhere where he'd be happier. He was not good at baseball in his time around here and now he's not holding himself accountable for that, instead blaming everything else. Clearly, Crawford should have anticipated the 2011 collapse, the departure of Theo and Francona, the Bobby V fiasco, and, most obviously, his own injuries.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 15, 2013 22:30:10 GMT -5
He's a nice guy, pretty sensitive too and if he didn't want to be held accountable and be asked to man up then he should have taken a huge discount to stay where he would have been happy. He had full control over that. That's exactly my point: He didn't need to be here, he could have taken less money to go elsewhere where he'd be happier. He was not good at baseball in his time around here and now he's not holding himself accountable for that, instead blaming everything else. And blaming your own poor performance on BAD CHEMISTRY is felonious (thank you Rasheed). I hate when pro athletes except to get pampered to perform the job they're handsomely paid to do. If I'm not doing job but my body language says I'm depressed, my boss won't pity me, he'll tell me to suck it up and just do it. Good riddance to both he and AGon. Did you read the article? Or more specifically, did you read what Crawford said in the article? Not once did he blame his poor performance on bad chemistry. He didn't blame anyone or anything for it. He also didn't fail to take responsibility for his struggles. All he talked about was that he was in an emotionally dark place. He basically described being depressed. He specifically says that his depression was due in part to his struggles, his injuries, and the toxic environment surrounding the team. He says it was more difficult because he was not in a familiar place. And in regards to the comment that he could have taken less money to play elsewhere - that is specifically mentioned in the article. He says he thought he would like it here. He didn't know it would be this difficult and he often reflected on the situation wishing he had made a different decision. I don't blame him one bit for going through these emotions.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 16, 2013 0:54:08 GMT -5
Did you read the article? Or more specifically, did you read what Crawford said in the article? Not once did he blame his poor performance on bad chemistry. He didn't blame anyone or anything for it. He also didn't fail to take responsibility for his struggles. All he talked about was that he was in an emotionally dark place. He basically described being depressed. He specifically says that his depression was due in part to his struggles, his injuries, and the toxic environment surrounding the team. He says it was more difficult because he was not in a familiar place. And in regards to the comment that he could have taken less money to play elsewhere - that is specifically mentioned in the article. He says he thought he would like it here. He didn't know it would be this difficult and he often reflected on the situation wishing he had made a different decision. I don't blame him one bit for going through these emotions. Of course I've read the article, the article makes me even angrier than the quotes did. Tell me please where he took responsibility for his struggles, for crying out loud. Point me at any part where he says anything close to "well, I sucked that year, but I kept my head down and kept fighting with my teammates". He's a spoiled little brat, he was DEPRESSED? What about forfeiting his contract and playing elsewhere? Yeah, thought so. He IS blaming anything but himself for his years in Boston. You could argue that he is right doing so (but you'd be wrong as well), not that it isn't what he is doing.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 16, 2013 0:59:13 GMT -5
Clearly, Crawford should have anticipated the 2011 collapse, the departure of Theo and Francona, the Bobby V fiasco, and, most obviously, his own injuries. He was part of the 2011 collapse, Jesus, if he makes that catch he could have been in the post-season. The departure of Theo was easy, he wasn't good at his job at his time. Francona shouldn't have been let go, that much I admit. The Bobby V fiasco could have been avoided if he or Gonzo were better teammates, which they were flying f*cking not. Look, I don't blame him for 2012, let that be clear. I undestand a player being injured. He sucked in 2011, however, so what I don't undestand is a player after being traded going out of his way to throw his former team under the bus. That's just classless. Did you see Youkilis doing the same? Blaming the environment for his struggles? Blaming injuries like he didn't suck before them? Selling his former teammates short?
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 16, 2013 9:32:07 GMT -5
I really don't know what to say, Don. If you did read the article then you clearly have a reading comprehension issue. I don't blame you for being frustrated with Crawford, but many of the things you are accusing him of saying simply were not said in this article. He did not blame his struggles on anyone or anything in this piece. The article wasn't about that. It wasn't trying to identify why he struggled or have him place blame on anything. The article was about the fact that he was battling what seems like depression during his time in Boston or at the very least he was not happy.
Did he take responsibility for his struggles? That isn't a fair bar to set for this article. He very easily could have taken responsibility and it was left out of the article because it wasn't relevant to what the article is about. You can't really be faulting him for what WASN'T said in an article that pulls a handful of quotes from what I'm sure was a much longer interview can you?
And you should know better regarding giving the money back - the union would never let this happen. (See ARod from about a decade ago). He didn't have a choice. Even if he regretted signing, there was nothing he could do.
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Post by kindasweaty on Feb 16, 2013 12:21:49 GMT -5
He's a spoiled little brat, he was DEPRESSED? What about forfeiting his contract and playing elsewhere? Yeah, thought so. You don't know anything about depression or contracts, do you?
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 17, 2013 11:52:55 GMT -5
The forfeiting the contract was moronic on my part and I apologize for that. My other point still stays, I dislike CC and I think he's looking to exempt himself for his poor play here and I don't like the way the depression is put strictly as cause instead of consequence from it. If you guys disagree, that's fair, even if I could do without the "reading comprehension issue" thing.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2013 12:33:30 GMT -5
He's a spoiled little brat, he was DEPRESSED? What about forfeiting his contract and playing elsewhere? Yeah, thought so. You don't know anything about depression or contracts, do you? This question shows you may not know much about true depression. There's a huge difference between someone suffering from depression and being depressed in the way we talk about being depressed. We talk about being depressed when we are down in the dumps. Someone suffering from depression is on a whole different level. I'm pretty sure Crawford wasn't suffering from depression. I think he had a tough go of it and handled it extremely poorly. Pretty much did what a lot of people suggested he would.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 17, 2013 13:29:23 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Crawford wasn't suffering from depression. I think he had a tough go of it and handled it extremely poorly. Pretty much did what a lot of people suggested he would. How so?
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Post by curll on Feb 17, 2013 13:30:57 GMT -5
Long story short, it is dangerous to discuss a person's mental state (and may I suggest anyone without a MD remain silent, else ignorance shall reign supreme). Carl Crawford didn't perform well while in Boston. The reason doesn't really matter, he was traded away and was very classy to the city and fans while here. Holding any contempt is absurd, no one is going to pass up $120M. It was a bad move by the Theo-lead front office. No one else should take the blame, not Carl, not Tito, not Bobby.
We've got a million ways to get it. On to the next one.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 17, 2013 14:27:45 GMT -5
... Of course I've read the article, the article makes me even angrier than the quotes did. Tell me please where he took responsibility for his struggles, for crying out loud. Point me at any part where he says anything close to "well, I sucked that year, but I kept my head down and kept fighting with my teammates". He's a spoiled little brat, he was DEPRESSED? What about forfeiting his contract and playing elsewhere? Yeah, thought so. He IS blaming anything but himself for his years in Boston. You could argue that he is right doing so (but you'd be wrong as well), not that it isn't what he is doing. Here's the statement I focused on: "It was just everything," he said. "Me not playing well. Me being in an unfamiliar area in an environment that was toxic. Just all those things combined. You start to say, 'Is this ever going to end?'" I don't know if you understand what Crawford's Houston looks like, but he's as far from a "spoiled brat" as you can get. He grew up in one of the toughest neighbourhoods in the country. It isn't Newton or Marblehead, Massachusetts, that's for sure. If it wasn't for Michael Bourne's family taking him in, he probably wouldn't be where he is. There were a few posters on the board who wondered about the fit in Boston. He found out the hard way about that meat-grinder given that he was unable to deliver thanks largely to the string of injuries culminating in the surgery. At least he's honest enough to open up about what it felt like. I'm willing to take that at face value.
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