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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 10:29:26 GMT -5
In Gray's case he's had a sharp increase in velocity in college. He's attributed that mostly to getting into better shape and losing weight. Ball mentioned on the radio broadcast last night that now that he's going to be concentrating on pitching and not hitting the coaches might be able to get more velocity out of him. He's also pretty lean so perhaps with the right nutrition and weight program, he can add some muscle too.
In many ways he reminds me of a more mature Clay Buccholz. Buccholz was a tall lean athletic pitcher who didn't have a ton of pitching experience against top competition.
I agree with that. But let's keep in mind that the changeup or any other pitch is very difficult to master. If you throw a bad one or throw it at the wrong time, it's probably going to end up breaking someone's window. Probably the best example of what Anderson is talking about was Pedro Martinez at his best. 97 on the black with an 80 changeup, unhittable.
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Post by widewordofsport on Jun 20, 2013 12:32:44 GMT -5
I believe I have heard that the first step to throwing a good changeup is having a great fastball. Then all you need is deception and separation of velocity.
I was surprised by the pick a little, but I am fine with it. Assuming hitters are easier to sign/find at the MLB level (or less risky because of injury) it's a good pick. The interesting thing to me is where the Red Sox place him. I'd like to see him at Greenville next year...
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Post by Guidas on Jun 20, 2013 12:45:52 GMT -5
This is going to make some people here SO mad (from the always polarizing Keith Law chat):
Q: From what I've read, it seems that Trey Ball is a little more advanced than a lot of HS pitchers. What is his ETA assuming things go smoothly for him in the minors?
Klaw: I think the opposite is true. He's very projectable and athletic, but NOT very advanced. Stuff is good, could get better, needs to smooth out the delivery, work on a third pitch, etc. I like him a ton, just saying I don't think he's a Clayton Kershaw who'll rip through the minors.
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Post by awall on Jun 20, 2013 12:49:00 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything that should be polarizing about that. I've read the same on scouting sites.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 12:57:21 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything that should be polarizing about that. I've read the same on scouting sites. Some people can't handle any realistic look at a Red Sox prospect. Look he wasn't completely concentrating on pitching in high school and he went to a cold weather school. It's not terribly surprising that he's not advanced enough to rip through the minors just yet. I think he'll start in Greenville next year, but I wouldn't be shocked or alarmed if they started him off in Lowell.
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Post by awall on Jun 20, 2013 12:59:24 GMT -5
yep, that's why he's considered a high risk/high reward guy. sounds like he has a good work ethic and head on his shoulders, will be fun to watch him develop under pro tutelage.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 20, 2013 13:14:41 GMT -5
Plus that Keith Law - he makes some of the people here who are SO reasonable SO crazy. I mean, like, if you believe he's just wrong all the time then he's wrong here, but it makes you mad that he would even state such a thing because he doesn't, like, even scout these guys hardly enough or at all!? Even worse though, what if you hate/love the Keith Law but you agree/disagree with this? Do you know how much that can turn an otherwise rational brain into a sudden, spinning full-contact congnitively dissonant rationalization machine!?! It would be like if Obama started acting like Bush and was tapping phones and droning people and, uh...eh...AUGHHH!!!!
Of course if you don't get worked up at all over chat fodder by one of the plethora of scouts out in the ethersphere then this is all, like, a nonissue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 13:14:50 GMT -5
He did sound very mature for a teenager on the radio broadcast. I don't think I would have sounded like that when I was 18. But yes even if you like the Ball pick and think he's going to be a superstar, you have to be realistic about what he is and the risk the Sox took by taking him over a guy like Shipley.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 13:19:52 GMT -5
People don't like him because he's a bit of a know it all. In general even if you don't know as much about a particular topic as someone else, people don't like to have that thrown in their face. Callis seems to have a lot more patience, even for dumb questions.
I definitely think that he works hard and thus has some basis for everything that he says publicly. There are a lot of writers who don't.
Some of the criticisms of him are just foolish. Like his not thinking that Matt Harvey was a star out of college. Somehow Keith was supposed to know that Harvey would develop an 80 slider.
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Post by awall on Jun 20, 2013 13:24:47 GMT -5
Plus that Keith Law - he makes some of the people here who are SO reasonable SO crazy. I mean, like, if you believe he's just wrong all the time then he's wrong here, but it makes you mad that he would even state such a thing because he doesn't, like, even scout these guys hardly enough or at all!? Even worse though, what if you hate/love the Keith Law but you agree/disagree with this? Do you know how much that can turn an otherwise rational brain into a sudden, spinning full-contact congnitively dissonant rationalization machine!?! It would be like if Obama started acting like Bush and was tapping phones and droning people and, uh...eh...AUGHHH!!!! Of course if you don't get worked up at all over chat fodder by one of the plethora of scouts out in the ethersphere then this is all, like, a nonissue. I think my head just exploded. Also, I like Keith Law, there I said it!
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Post by widewordofsport on Jun 20, 2013 14:48:34 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the decision on Greenville vs. Lowell may just come down to how many innings they think Ball can pitch next year. They may think his stuff could handle A ball, but don't want to shut him down after July. That is my hope/guess with some of the recent HS picks held back for Lowell.
If he ends up being that good though, gotta think he skips or nearly skips one of those levels; either a short stay in A ball in 2014, or a short stay in A+ ball in 2015, etc. Out of a top 10 pick, I'd like to see a kid who can accelerate his timeline by skipping/dominating one level at some point (like we saw with JBJ/Garin/Xander), but it is harder with pitchers just because you build up the innings.
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 20, 2013 14:51:41 GMT -5
This is going to make some people here SO mad (from the always polarizing Keith Law chat): Q: From what I've read, it seems that Trey Ball is a little more advanced than a lot of HS pitchers. What is his ETA assuming things go smoothly for him in the minors? Klaw: I think the opposite is true. He's very projectable and athletic, but NOT very advanced. Stuff is good, could get better, needs to smooth out the delivery, work on a third pitch, etc. I like him a ton, just saying I don't think he's a Clayton Kershaw who'll rip through the minors. I think there is a couple of things going on here. From what I gather and watch in video Ball is very smooth and repeatable in his delivery. He has a very mature mechanical wind-up and only needs a few tweeks there. On the other hand the pitches that come out of that delivery are very raw and need to be developed. He's a high schooler who didn't start throwing a breaking ball till he was a junior. I would say that he is advanced mechanically , but not very polished in his repetoire. It's a fine line..... and yes he could take awhile to develop , but still be a star
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 25, 2013 15:47:39 GMT -5
This may be posted elsewhere.....But
Any Idea when Ball and or Denney get their first action in GCL games?
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 15, 2013 11:21:21 GMT -5
This may be posted elsewhere.....But Any Idea when Ball and or Denney get their first action in GCL games? I have this question too. What is the typical progression of a prospect like Ball being drafted? What is he doing right now, in a training camp scenario, with a team, or just working out at home? When would we expect to see him play and where?
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 15, 2013 12:12:32 GMT -5
Just after I posted the above I found out a bit about Trey.
He's on an arm strengthening program that they use for a lot of youngsters. He's in Fort Myers working with the team doing a bunch of throwing / weight training to get him a little stronger before he see's any game action. I read it was a 20day program (or something like that)... So that would mean you'd start seeing him in games in the next month or so as long as the trainers think his progress is adequate.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 23, 2013 19:37:51 GMT -5
Ryan Hannable ?@hannable84 1m Red Sox first-round pick Trey Ball threw live BP for the first time in Fla. Gulf Coast League today. Likely to make pro debut Monday (7-29).
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Post by dfwsox on Jul 23, 2013 20:40:19 GMT -5
Ryan Hannable ?@hannable84 1m Red Sox first-round pick Trey Ball threw live BP for the first time in Fla. Gulf Coast League today. Likely to make pro debut Monday (7-29). Cant wait to see the reports on this game. Excited about this guy like most.
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Post by Kevin Pereira on Jul 28, 2013 13:05:09 GMT -5
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 1, 2014 8:25:53 GMT -5
Not liking the signs. I know all the explanations about him being raw, but he was the #7 pick.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 1, 2014 8:29:19 GMT -5
When I saw him down in spring training I thought there was a pretty good chance he was not going to go to Greenville based on what I saw.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 1, 2014 8:33:29 GMT -5
For the highest picks we've had since Trot Nixon in 1990 or so. Guess that cliff between the 6th and 7th picks was pretty big. Damn, wish we had Austin Meadows. Add in Denney's issues, and the great draft excitement is not looking too good in initial returns.
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 1, 2014 8:36:49 GMT -5
Trying to evaluate the 2013 draft before the 2014 season has begun is probably not very useful.
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Post by stevedillard on Apr 1, 2014 8:44:18 GMT -5
Depends on what you mean by "evaluate." If you mean reaching a definitive conclusion, then agree. If you mean reaching intermediate conclusions, then disagree. We took Bogaets' assignement to Greenville instead of Lowell to be a good sign. We take Rijo's assignment to Greenville to be a good sign of his development. I don't know why the opposite doesn't stand -- the #7 pick, who struggled in each GCL appearance, and now can't make a full season team -- is not following the trajectory that seems like pretty standard for a first round HS kid.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 1, 2014 8:48:55 GMT -5
Depends on what you mean by "evaluate." If you mean reaching a definitive conclusion, then agree. If you mean reaching intermediate conclusions, then disagree. We took Bogaets' assignement to Greenville instead of Lowell to be a good sign. We take Rijo's assignment to Greenville to be a good sign of his development. I don't know why the opposite doesn't stand -- the #7 pick, who struggled in each GCL appearance, and now can't make a full season team -- is not following the trajectory that seems like pretty standard for a first round HS kid. Xander didn't make Greenville out of spring training though. He was sent there after the first month in extended spring training.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 1, 2014 8:49:33 GMT -5
He wasn't even a full-time pitcher a year ago. And the seasons in Indiana are probably a lot shorter than everyone else's. In terms of pitching, he may as well still be in diapers. Everyone knew or should have known that this was going to take awhile.
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