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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 20:09:16 GMT -5
Yup, he's been transparent about it all along. The Red Sox, I'm sure, know that if they don't give him a market value offer, he's a goner. If they trade him this offseason, that tells you about their lack of confidence they can sign him and/or their lack of desire to give him a market value contract - and when I say value, I'm talking years, too, as that, and not the annual $/year, could be the biggest sticking point. I have no doubt he'll sign with the Red Sox - if the price is right. We'll know where the Red Sox stand for sure - if they trade him. I think it's pretty obvious he's not extending this offseason regardless of what the offer is. I'm just glad the sentiment of "the Sox can't trade Mookie Betts because they will lose that hometown discount chance" was put to bed. It was brought up in the beginning of the thread and I thought it was way way off base considering the way Mookie has been talking the past few years in regards to free agency. I haven't seen a Red Sox player take value and money this seriously since Manny Ramirez was here. That's who Mookie is now- Manny. Two very different individuals with 2 similar mindsets when it comes to Free Agency. Two RF who wanted to be the top paid player in the game or at least close to it. Remember, Manny left Celeveland, despite Celeveland being 2nd in the bidding war, and having a really high bid themselves. Manny came to Boston because of the money. Mookie will either leave or stay because of the money. I think the years point is a great point by you too Champs because fact- This ownership group has NEVER made a 10 year offer to any player since they've bought the team in almost 20 years here. They offered Texeira 9 years a decade ago, and that was only that one time. It'll be interesting to see whether everyone sees what I have been harping on with John Henry for a while. He's a really good owner, but you will see what happens when it comes to pay up or get out. I fully expect Henry to get out and trade him. I do like that this is a debate over long term versus short term too because now no body can say that keeping Mookie is better for the long term future and not lie about it. It's either you want to keep him for next year or trade him for valuable controllable pieces.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 15:34:50 GMT -5
I wasn't contradicting myself because they are two totally seperate things, but you and others are allowed to spin it into the same thing, if they chose, like you did in your original post.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 15:02:52 GMT -5
If this weren't the case, then why are people that get charged with domestic crimes still allowed to play even after a suspension? Other than that, winning is all that matters in pro sports. The funny thing is that most people just share their view and leave it at that, but your comments always take the *shape* of a logical argument, without being at all logical. It's just a constant stream of shifting claims, goalpost-shifting, motte-and-baileys, equivocations... And it leads you to just endlessly pursue these arguments around and around in circles, filling up half of every discussion thread. Hmph. I blame you for that grand slam. I'm sorry. I didn't get your point then.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 15:00:41 GMT -5
Pedro, can't agree with the 3 balls is a walk and 2 strikes is a strikeout idea. I just think the game would devolve further into the 3 true outcome scenario. I'm of the mind that it's not necessary the length of game as it is the pace of play, which can be tedious, with all the step-outs, the ten years between pitches, the century it takes for instant replay calls to get resolved. Although this is contrary to what I'm saying, I agree with RedSoxfan2 that intentional walks should not be an automatic zip down to 1b for the runner. To me that's like saying if a guy hits a routine grounder to SS, he's automatically out, even though there's always the chance for human error. I think intentional walks have the chance for human error, and I don't think that intentional walks occur often enough to really impact the time of game. Beyond that I'd like to see DHs in both leagues and no more pitchers batting unless they can hit like Ohtani or Lorenzen. I also can do without interleague play, as much as the Red Sox have benefitted from it, as well. It might result in more of the three true outcomes. I would be interested in seeing it. There's really no way to shorten these games beyond shortening the innings from 9 to 7. Limiting the pitching changes might help. The pitch clock will help the slowest pitchers speed up. These games will still be close to 3 hours every night because of the commercials, foul balls, the running up of the counts each at bat. It's a serious problem. Baseball is becoming more of a grind than a form of entertainment over 162 games. That's a lot of hours and time when you add the context of how long these games are played.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 14:53:54 GMT -5
I never said domestic violence doesn't matter, learn to read. In fact, I stated the opposite. That's really offensive from my point of view. I didn't use your post as a start off point. It was being talked about for 3 posts and I chimed in soon thereafter. Not my favorite Sox player. He was very frustrating and good all throughout the course of his career here. Ohh and in pro sports, winning is all that matters. If you want to watch baseball and just watch for the enjoyment of it, go watch youth baseball for a living. I mean... come on, man. If this weren't the case, then why are people that get charged with domestic crimes still allowed to play even after a suspension? Other than that, winning is all that matters in pro sports.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 14:49:58 GMT -5
Porcello may have had first inning troubles historically and a poor year, but the guy always gave an honest effort and had uncommon class. He took the mound every fifth day, and if he hadn't, it would have been someone considerably worse. As rough as his season was, he still finished comfortably above replacement level. Is this America? I thought this was America? I need to shut up? Cool. This is a message board that you haven't been banned from for reasons passing my understanding. Because I actually contribute to this board? I don't know. This is a pretty lousy thing to say in general.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 2:32:20 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 2:10:23 GMT -5
Mookie is stone cold about his stance with his contract. Taking emotions out of it. Don't expect discounts based off of attachment to this franchise, just because he grew up here.
"The 26-year-old wants to tell people not to waste their time. It has been well-established: Whether or not Betts agrees to an extension with the Red Sox will be based on business.
"It’s how I was raised to look at the thing," he said. "As a whole, when it comes to business in general, whether it’s buying a building or contract negotiations or whatever it is, you have to take emotions out of it. That’s what people forget. Fans and media get caught up in emotions and that’s just not how I was raised and that’s just not what my point of view with my agents is. We take emotions out of it and we focus on the business part. Of course, I love it here. This is all I know. But you also have to take that emotional side out of it and get to what is actually real."
It's all about the value (money). He's telling you this ahead of time. Here's your sign.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 2:03:45 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 26, 2019 1:53:50 GMT -5
Theo Epstein is repeating the same things he said in Boston before he left here. He's repeating these lines in Chicago.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 23:02:26 GMT -5
I'll never get your points, especially about me. I have never had- -Wished for multiple people to leave -Swore and had a post deleted -Bullied anyone to think like me I know someone who has Jim. So you sympathize with Chapman and hate Porcello. Check. Arguing is considered "bullying", only when pedrofan isn't the one arguing. Please let me have my opinion by not arguing with me. I'm not bullying anyone, but there's no explaining that to you. Nice job of deflecting blame here though. Also LOL at you thinking I'm a idiot basically saying I don't understand a simple concept as irony. Whatever dude, I'm done here.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:57:54 GMT -5
Says the guy who cursed at one of my good buddies Soxfan67, bullying him to the point where it's forcing him to want to leave? I'm the detriment here? That's also ironic You are not capable of understanding irony. You are the perfect example every time you complain about anything. I'll never get your points, especially about me. I have never had- -Wished for multiple people to leave -Swore and had a post deleted -Bullied anyone to think like me I know someone who has Jim.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:52:41 GMT -5
There was no morals behind my Porcello post. It was a opinion about Rick Porcello avd the one I had on him in his career here. There was nothing sensitive about anything I posted about the somehow turned racism comments. There are bad dudes everywhere. These same people who don't like watching bad dudes play, are better off not watching the sports in general. Bad dudes everywhere during the steroid era. Bad dudes everywhere in the NFL. You can't root for one NFL team without a player with a sketchy history about them. And you're on the record as being a Chapman fan and not understanding those who appreciate Porcello. Do you see why one may question that? Lol when have I been a Chapman fan? I mock him all the time and laugh when the dude starts sweating in the ninth inning all the time. I recognize the talent he has, and I know who Porcello is as a pitcher in this league. So yeah, I don't know why people question that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:48:39 GMT -5
Aye, in the future I shan't make the mistake of shoving down your throat my backwards morals of a) attempting to be considerate with ones words with regards to a sensitve subject, b) not wanting violent abusers on the team I root for even if it improves their chance of winning, and c) not popping into the gameday thread just to be a dick to people who want a enjoy a player in his last day on the team. No, please do keep joining, if only to be a deterrent to the game day thread over negativity becoming the accepted opinion of the board, which cannot be questioned. Says the guy who cursed at one of my good buddies Soxfan67, bullying him to the point where it's forcing him to want to leave? I'm the detriment here? That's also ironic
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:45:10 GMT -5
I wish he could have had another Cy young season, so I could root for him. It's a cold world, you don't perform all year, you're going to hear about it. And when he pitches well, you can also criticize him for hurting the Red Sox' draft picks. Well, it's the truth. He pitched well when we absolutely needed him not to. Kind of Porcello in a nutshell this season.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:39:16 GMT -5
There was no morals behind my Porcello post. It was a opinion about Rick Porcello and the one I had on him in his career here.
There was nothing sensitive about anything I posted about the somehow turned racism comments.
There are bad dudes everywhere. These same people who don't like watching bad dudes play, are better off not watching the sports in general. Bad dudes everywhere during the steroid era. Bad dudes everywhere in the NFL. You can't root for one NFL team without a player with a sketchy history about them.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:19:18 GMT -5
I was laughing at the irony of it. You were going to find something to criticize him for not matter how he did, like you've been doing for awhile. I wish he could have had another Cy young season, so I could root for him. It's a cold world, you don't perform all year, you're going to hear about it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 22:13:10 GMT -5
There really was nothing to be coached about that. I called a baseball player that happened to be white, a gamer. I didn't want a baseball player that happened to be Dominican (and ironically a domestic abuser himself).
There's really no coaching that. I was talking strictly baseball. People were reaching for a excuse to shove their backwards morals down my throat and you were on their side about the issue.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 21:53:08 GMT -5
Yes. Very clutch performance. Porcello's final line for year- 5.52 ERA (2nd among qualified starters) A WHIP over 1.4 174.1 innings As I said, very frustrating pitcher for me to watch. Gave him credit for being good, but won't be missed by me. Glad he just dropped the Sox from the 18th to the 19th pick though. Right when you think he's had the last laugh, he just keeps laughing and hurts you in another way this year. So I assume you were cheering for him giving up 3 runs in the first inning and not criticizing him? I was laughing at the irony of it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 21:52:25 GMT -5
1. You literally called winning a championship "what really matters" in a coversation about Aroldis Chapman. Does that mean you support domestic abusers? No. But you're clearly having trouble understanding why some people have a bigger problem looking past that when it comes to winning games than you do. 2. I specifically said you weren't racist when I asked you to use language that was more racially considerate in a very specific circumstance, which I wouldn't have bothered to do if I thought you were a racist. But you're still talking about it two years later so it apparently struck a nerve. 3. You have zero respect for the players. Someone voicing that they like a guy and that they'll miss him on his way out isn't a jumping off point for you to go off about why you don't. Do you show up at funerals and complain the dead guy owes you $5? Porcello had a bad year. A lot of people still like and respect what he did for the team, and even if you don't you picked a weird time to voice it. Learn when to shut up. Winning and Arodlis Chapman are two seperate conversations and two things you can seperate, unless you can't figure that out. Even implying racism in a conversation where racism is never implied is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Is this America? I thought this was America? I need to shut up? Cool.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 21:38:03 GMT -5
Hey Ricky, after 964 innings, a Cy Young Award, a key role in the World Series, and finishing off with an 89th quality start in a Red Sox uniform, what is your take on the blatant disrespect? Is it as disrespectful as calling a poster a supporter of domestic abusers or a racist? Because you have implied both at me in the course of over a year and a half.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 21:36:04 GMT -5
Vintage Porcello this game. Thanks for the memories. Yep it was. Started slow and still gave them a quality start. Probably did that 30 times in his Red Sox career. Yes. Very clutch performance. Porcello's final line for year- 5.52 ERA (2nd among qualified starters) A WHIP over 1.4 174.1 innings As I said, very frustrating pitcher for me to watch. Gave him credit for being good, but won't be missed by me. Glad he just dropped the Sox from the 18th to the 19th pick though. Right when you think he's had the last laugh, he just keeps laughing and hurts you in another way this year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 21:00:11 GMT -5
I'm all for the automated strike zones, no time outs, and whatever. MLB has got to do something with extra innings and make it end at a certain point. Ohh and the games last too long. The pitch clock will help, but not much I think. The best idea I've seen to make games go shorter, is to not change anything, but the count. 3 balls take a walk. 2 strikes and you're out. It tells the batter to be more aggresive because he has fewer mistakes to make. It increases the action of the game. It would also allow starting pitching to be more relevant. All of a sudden, starters can go longer because they're throwing fewer pitches. This also leads to less pitching changes and such. It's the only fair thing that I can come up with that doesn't change anything but the count of the batter. I don't care about game length, and I don't think most people do either, if there's stuff going on. It's the dead time that makes baseball unbearable to watch. Like, a 13-12 game is going to be naturally long. There's nothing you can really do about it. A 3-2 game shouldn't last 4 hours. I don't think you can mess with balls and strike counts. It's too fundamentally changing and it's culturally ingrained. In fact, so much that our legal system uses it; ergo, "Three Strikes" Sentencing Laws. Ties suck too. Maybe after 12 innings they should put a runner on 2B or even 3B. It just kind of becomes hokey like the shootout in hockey. Though the equivalent would be to end the game on a home run derby. Lol at the above quote saying I won't let them have a opinion. You can say whatever you want, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees what I see on here. Anyways, moving on. RedSoxfan2, I think this is the perfect rule change to shorten up the games for good. Shortening the count would simply make the games shorter and make the game flow better. This would increase the action of the game, without interfering with any statistics. The only thing that would happen is that the strikeouts and walks would become depressed in value compared to today's baseball. I'm perfectly okay with that considering strikeouts are already depressed considering every batters' approach of swinging for the fences on 2 strikes now. The time of game does matter. Red Sox games are almost 3 and a half hours long these days. A regular MLB game is almost at 3 hours and 15 minutes. This is a serious problem and one that is turning TVs off. It could cause baseball to become more of a regional sport like hockey soon; we could be already there actually. Maybe you don't see it as a problem, but it is a big problem. I'm all for the pitch clocks on top of shaving the counts. Make baseball as close to a 2 and a half hour game as possible, so kids can go to bed and watch a full game. So people can go to sleep with a full night's rest and seeing the whole game, instead of turning the game off and seeing the results the next day. I can't tell you how many batters are taking first pitch strikes with no desire to swing a bat. In fact, countless at bats I see are being wasted by looking at 2 or 3 pitches before deciding to swing the bat. Like that's 2 minutes each at bat just watching a batter letting pitches go by. It drives me insane. Swing the bat, be aggresive. Man, I loved Nomar Garciaparra because he would look for that first strike everytime and almost always swing on the first pitch. Baseball needs to go back to this and shaving the counts would enforce it or they'll be out. Shaving the counts of each batter would improve these things- -Increase action sooner -Help with injuries and durability (less pitches being thrown) -Less pitching changes -Force hitters to be more aggresive changing the approach in baseball, maybe putting more balls in play. You're not getting rid of commercials these days. You're not getting rid of pitchers warming up. You're not getting rid of foul balls and shouldn't punish a batter for fighting a pitch off. This is the best idea I can come up with to make the game more fluid.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 20:16:42 GMT -5
Jonathan Jones update: highest graded corner thru 3 weeks in the NFL (PFF) He has really stood out this year. He's been breaking up a lot of plays this season. Between him and Gilmore, this might be one of the best corner combinations the Patriots have ever had.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 25, 2019 19:27:58 GMT -5
Vintage Porcello this game. Thanks for the memories.
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