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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 12, 2020 9:57:02 GMT -5
Why wouldn't you want a Drummond or Capela? Drummond was just traded for a 2nd round pick and Capela and a first for Covington. Our problem is we had no crap contracts to trade. So every trade involved Hayward or Smart. You don't trade those guys for a center. Yet if we are just talking why do we want a center. It's simple, Theis is very good guarding small ball centers. Yet he doesn't add much on offense, isn't a great rebounder and can't guard actual centers. Kanter can score and rebound, but a smart team that is good at pick and roll or teams will good post scorers can cause him problems. A team built on D, could reach a new level with a more rounded center. A guy that can dominate the paint. We don't have that and I truly fear good coaches will expose that in the playoffs. Robert Williams was the type of guy that could have changed that, but he's raw and needed playing time yet has missed half the season. Going forward maybe we don't need anyone if he reaches his ceiling. He made a massive jump from year one to this year, but still has a long way to go. Robert Williams, athlete that he is, is still only 6'8". He doesn't have bulk....His quickness and leaping ability will help, but at that size I'm not sure how much of a deterrent he would be against the big centers. Still, nice to have him as a relief guy and against small ball teams.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 11, 2020 22:34:27 GMT -5
Aren’t we all interim, after all? Please, please take the meds. I'm worried about you.😏
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 11, 2020 6:29:37 GMT -5
I think if there was a market for Bradley he'd have been traded already. He was the most obvious guy to move to free up salary. Ya but....JBJ makes what 11 million?...wouldn't have gotten us anywhere. Price + was the solution. If we go full retool, maybe JBJ. But as you say...what would he bring back. And as others have said, the trade deadline will likely be the time of jettison. Selling more now would crush revenue and bring back little. JBJ might actually improve at the plate...can't get worse... and Sale might also make himself more valuable. Like Price, he's highly paid and been injured. He is less likely to be part of a 2022 and beyond, future. We'll be peeling back the outer layers. Eovaldi right now is Joe Kelly 2.0 so he stays for the moment also.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 10, 2020 8:36:36 GMT -5
It will be interesting where the Sox go from here. Are they done with the re-tool? Did they just want to get some flexibility and give the farm a bit of a boost while remaining competitive, or will there be a continuing purge in a jettison of older players in a full re-stock? If the latter, JDM and Sale are obvious targets should they prove healthy and perform.
I have a gut feeling that there is more to come with a new sheriff.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2020 21:55:22 GMT -5
The Sox did as well as they could. Disagree, deeply and forever. Well consider changing to a Dodger fan...?
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2020 21:36:31 GMT -5
Hey!
Many here were terribly down on trading 1 year of Mookie and less than 1/2 Price's remaining contract for Verdugo and Graterol...a twice wounded 20 year old bullpen piece.
Now we have Verdugo and SS Jeter Downs (whom many here pined for), a 3rd piece and 1/2 Price's contract. Happy day!
Think in reverse; If you were the Dodgers, was this a good deal? Did you get smoked?
This new deal is much more favorable to the Sox IMO. Rejoice, not forever complain.
The Sox did as well as they could.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2020 18:50:20 GMT -5
Finally! Benintendi and Bradley will get to play with vertigo. Juggernaut OF. Running circles around the ball!
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2020 10:50:09 GMT -5
IT is officially a free agent. Bring him back, Danny! That would be awkward and awesome all at the same time. Lol. Yeah....If they don't bring him back does that add salt?...If they do bring him back, it'll be a denouement.....I wish he were 6'2"....
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2020 9:32:43 GMT -5
Here is a scenario that may be driving the holdup. Boston notices a medical red flag bringing hesitation to the original trade and a request for additional renumeration. At this time the holdup is reported and other teams call expressing interest in Betts and/or Price. Said teams layout the package they would be willing to part with which is greater than Verdugo/Graterol. Enough greater that a lesser prospect or more salary relief doesn’t compare. Boston now uses this info as a baseline for what they would like in addition to the existing deal which causes both LA and Minnesota to waiver because it is a significant enough increase over the previous deal. Bloom can draw a hard line for their asking price knowing they have a fall back deal ready to go if this falls through. I think this would seem logical. Teams such as St Louis, Philadelphia, NY Mets, Atlanta, Washington could potentially have a need for a one year superstar to push for a World Series and have enough payroll to carry added salary for one season and/or consider a long term deal next offseason. And of course San Diego still lingers. Betts has been available all winter. If there was going to be a bidding war, why would it start now? Different situation maybe, but that may not auger well for Betts in free agency either....could be a wake-up.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 6, 2020 19:32:41 GMT -5
Swing does a little bit long but to be fair I think it's safe to say he's going to get a little bit stronger at some point. He is really thin. Jeeezz he's 15 for goodness sake. He'll grow a LOT!
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 6, 2020 12:38:31 GMT -5
Agreed. I expected a Mickey, "I don't pitch with my stomach" Lolich, rotundus Americanus type. I couldn't believe from the pics that he was 265 lbs. Guy is solid. Listed heights and weights are notoriously inaccurate. If a guy doesn't look 265, it's probably because he's not. Usually the 'errors' make the guy taller and less heavy....
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 6, 2020 11:24:25 GMT -5
It's like... not even really clear that he's fat? THANK YOU He’s not. There’s literal game tape of him in the majors. Everybody has access to it. Go take a look at him and tell me he has a weight problem. He simply does not. If anything that frame is a workhorse’s frame. The arm isn’t a workhorse arm but that’s another thing entirely. It’s easy to see how he maintains his velocity- he looks really strong physically Agreed. I expected a Mickey, "I don't pitch with my stomach" Lolich, rotundus Americanus type. I couldn't believe from the pics that he was 265 lbs. Guy is solid.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 22:21:18 GMT -5
Ok good. only 7 Mil short.. but what do you get back? Can you beat Verdugo and Graterol as low pay prospects? And next year Mookie, if he stays and at 35 Mil, adds another 7 Mil to payroll so then it becomes 14 Mil short of current trade. My issue with Verdugo is the nature of back injury. What is it that caused missing the last 2 months and he HOPES to be ready for Spring. This sounds like a spinal nerve impingement. Herniated disc, stenosis? Surgical intervention down the line? Trade Sale, Eovaldi. Fine. What is the return? Who knows. Not much, likely. Keep Betts, though. Here’s the thing, as I’ve said before. Trading Betts for a big step down means basically more than half the high paid guys on the team become irrelevant. The Sox will not he an elite team for the life of their contracts or span of their remaining valuable years. So why keep Sale, for example, if you dump Betts? Verdugo may literally be half the player Betts is. Or less. So they are far worse... and being under control means much less when what is controlled is not that good. I know... top Dodger prospect. But his stats don’t blow me away, and he has a bad back. He will probably be fine. Fine. But that doesn’t cut it. The Sox have made themselves worse in the short run to be mediocre in the longer run. Verdugo at age 23 hit for the same average as Mookie...this year and career wise. Without injury he probably would have hit 20 homers. He has a very strong arm rivaling Mookie's. He plays for a pittance of Mookie's current salary giving us leeway to sign others. I agree that Sale, particularly if he pitches well, is on the block. Eovaldi won't fetch. JDM might.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 21:51:44 GMT -5
Ok good. only 7 Mil short.. but what do you get back? Can you beat Verdugo and Graterol as low pay prospects?
And next year Mookie, if he stays and at 35 Mil, adds another 7 Mil to payroll so then it becomes 14 Mil short of current trade.
My issue with Verdugo is the nature of back injury. What is it that caused missing the last 2 months and he HOPES to be ready for Spring. This sounds like a spinal nerve impingement. Herniated disc, stenosis? Surgical intervention down the line?
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 20:50:25 GMT -5
Good gravy... why would anyone boo Alex Verdugo on Opening Day? Kid didn't trade himself to Boston. I mean I personally wouldn't do it, but I can certainly see it happening. Well that's fair isn't it? Oh and classless.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 19:36:20 GMT -5
Brutal. Trade one of the best players your organization has ever produced, who also happens to be a blast to watch (this is entertainment) for an OF who... yawn, sorry I fell asleep. And a 20-year old maybe future closer? They will be lucky if the package produces the value of one more year of Mookie. And, by the way, half-contract Price has the chance to be a steal. Guy is no longer an ace, but he was good last year before getting hurt. As a #3 starter with the Sox sharing the bill, the idea of getting him as an add-in makes me sick. The Sox got pantsed on value, and worse, somethings are beyond measure. A home grown, appealing superstar is not to be traded. Let him walk if he must. How would you have gotten below the cap now and in future years...especially with Mookie wanting 35 per for 12 at 420 Mil? Alternatively what would trading JBJ, JDM, Beni or others save/bring? What kind of lineup or outfield would we have then? Just how high would you be willing to go for Mookie...before it was too much for a homegrown superstar?...or is it at any cost? Devers was more productive than Mookie last year and hits to all fields. If Mookie gets 35 Mil, what should Devers get paid to lock him up for 10-12? We have no sure pitchers in our milb system and have historically been poor at finding/developing them. Our current starters have questions. So how do we add quality starters w/o winning high priced bids? If we did all that, wouldn't we find ourselves right back in the current pickle?.....or who cares, it's Big Bad John's money? And what if Mookie left anyway at year end? Where would we be; how many tickets would we sell; and who would we blame? I'll bet that Mookie's 2019 home hits, superimposed on the Dodger's field would not have yielded as good results as they did at Fenway. He's a lifetime .295 mostly pull hitter playing half his games at Fenway. Not that it's identical but I remember Fred Lynn fell from sainthood after leaving the confines.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 8:47:53 GMT -5
I can't get over how good a pickup Price is for the Dodgers at 3/$45. They're paying him less than the Red Sox are paying Eovaldi. They got David Price at Will Smith money. Price is probably worth $20M to the Dodgers but worth shedding for us. He's 34, not worth keeping to us, could be a pain in a down season here. He was worth taking on 16M per to save $15 per plus potential trouble. We were not going to be winning Series with him as a financial drag going forward. Reset, flexibility get younger...reboot.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 8:43:57 GMT -5
They better roll out the brinks truck for Devers. Don't let him get away. They have no excuse not to now. On the flip side, now that this team isn't competing in any real sense this season, they should absolutely be taking offers on Eduardo Rodriguez. I feel like the rest...air out of the balloon and season......But we've enjoyed a remarkable run.... How many teams have been able to win 4 Series in a span of 14 years? We waited 86 years!!! We'll be back. In the meantime the sun will rise, the sun will set, and we'll have lunch. A wise man once told me I shouldn't pay for past performance. A wise man once said that pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered. I'm so thankful that we've won 4 times. Expecting that we would have won this year is really a shot in the dark 5-10%? and where would we be next year....much, much worse than now.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 8:20:50 GMT -5
Yes, because will never know if this team could’ve made a run. We won’t have a team like that for years, I don’t care what they say About resetting. As for Price, he was very good until he got injured in 2019. I would’ve at least taken him into the All-Star break, especially with the ownership team telling us over and over again how he and Sale are ready to go. This is just a bad deal. Ownership is treating this team like they’re the Kansas City Royals or something. this does nothing more than put money in the owners pockets. if you look at the upcoming free agents, there is nothing to reload on. You have Mookie, Springer - Who will be 31 and not have a trashcan - and there isn’t a pitcher worth a damn on the free-agent market, and no one in the system at AA-AAA or even A projected to be better than a #3 This past year was the year to get a starter, with regards to free agents; the year before was the year to get relievers. Instead the Red Sox did nothing, and this is a big solution? What a joke. It’s beyond a white flag move. It’s a bad deal. On top of that, this whole idea that the 2021 team is going to be amazing now... I mean, Sale isn't young, and he's had arm issues. JDM isn't young, and he's had back issues. Eduardo Rodriguez isn't young (despite what people weirdly seem to believe) and he's pitching on a reconstructed knee. There's not much that's particularly bankable for 2021 besides Bogaerts and Devers. It's not like they have everything in place now to be Dodgers/Astros superteam after 2020. They have a couple franchise players and a whole lot of work to do. I feel like the rest...air out of the balloon and season......But we've enjoyed a remarkable run....How many teams have been able to win 4 Series in a span of 14 years? We waited 86 years!!! We'll be back. In the meantime the sun will rise, the sun will set, and we'll have lunch.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 8:10:43 GMT -5
Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I think the chances the Sox re-sign Betts is higher than most seem to think. Mookie maintains that he wants to get to free agency, so I don't see him extending with the Dodgers before that. Mookie is worth a huge deal, but there's still only so many teams who will take on such a huge commitment of dollars and years. The Sox are generally one of those teams with the means to do it, and if we outbid every other team why wouldn't he come back? It's possible but very remote IMO if only that the New Order will be more like the Rays. Big, long term contracts are not on the menu going forward. And, as remarkable as Mookie is, he depends on bat speed. How will that 'age' 4-5 years into the mission? Dodgers and Yankees are the two prime competitors as they reset their payrolls.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 7:59:02 GMT -5
Betts isn't coming back. I expect him to resign with LA. I mean essentially it wasn't as bad as selling Ruth to the Yankees for obvious reasons and you did get some talent back. Just not nearly enough for this deal to make sense. I don't expect him back either, but they have more budget space to make it happen if they wanted to. or more likely someone else next year and the year after....
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 5, 2020 7:53:15 GMT -5
So, complete speculation. I’ll trust the pros. Then I don't know why you are happy. The "pros" are more or less also blasting the trade. Fangraphs and other sites have hammered this deal. I think the only site who thinks it benefits Boston is baseball value where it looks at Prices total contract as negative 50 when in reality its not at 14 million. Please show me one single clued in person who thought this trade was good for Boston. I'll wait. Unless by Pros you mean Bloom and Henry in which case please proceed with the head in the sand and whistling in the rain while thinking everything is fine... Many people here are looking at it simply as trading beloved Mookie and Price for Verdugo and Graterol. Were that the case, we got hosed. That's not what happened. We traded 1 year of Mookie and a 34 year old vastly overpaid, oft disgruntled Price for 2 younger (21, 24) players who will likely play longer than those we traded. We also shed 42 million in salary to get under the cap. We were going to be harshly penalized this year and we would have lost Mookie at year end for a measly compensatory draft pick. How would you rate that return? The only upside of keeping Mookie was if we won the Series. I wouldn't rate that a high probability....given the Sale/Price history of injuries and innings eater Porcello gone. We wouldn't have been able to add at the deadline either. It will take a few years to come back no doubt. I expect, as the season unfolds, that Martinez is dealt too. If Sale does well, he also is likely gone....This is the beginning of a reset. It happens to all teams in all sports...even the Patriots. You gotta know when to hold and when to fold.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 4, 2020 23:00:35 GMT -5
Mookie + Price + $16M x 3 years for Verdugo and a two-pitch guy who will likely be a reliever = Bloom just got bent over the trade table by his old boss. This is disgusting. If Mookie leaves the Dodgers next year and Price doesn't pitch better than 2019, would you feel differently?
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 4, 2020 21:50:19 GMT -5
i feel like it might just be Verdugo and Graterol. a little bit off from what we were speculating on over the last few days... Verdugo, when healthy, is a good young player and Graterol is exactly what the Sox have lacked in the system for a long, long time. Do wish they could have gotten their hands on Jeter Downs and one of the Dodgers catchers, but that was more of a wish than reality. Didn't we have Kopech?...before Graterol. I was surprised with his stuff that he is not a high strikeout guy....Joe Kelly, Jr.....or too young to tell....
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 4, 2020 21:22:47 GMT -5
Who the hell are we getting if it’s only one other player Sugar plums no longer dancing....if so.
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