mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,780
|
Post by mobaz on Feb 5, 2020 6:51:30 GMT -5
Because I always like reading charts instead of pages of back and forth of the same folks saying the same things. Try not to make this another commentary thread though since a robust one already exists.
|
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 7:01:02 GMT -5
The trade, if it had to be made, is probably like a B+ trade. I don't know that they could have gotten a whole lot more.
Deciding to make the trade in the first place gets an F-.
|
|
|
|
Post by juanpena on Feb 5, 2020 8:18:05 GMT -5
As a baseball trade, C+ at best. It's hard to believe they got no one from the Dodgers system. It's hard to believe Bloom couldn't get them to throw in someone from the lower half of their top 30 to see if they might get lucky.
Combine that with what a horrible human Verdugo apparently is and it drops to a D.
|
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 8:31:15 GMT -5
As a baseball trade, C+ at best. It's hard to believe they got no one from the Dodgers system. It's hard to believe Bloom couldn't get them to throw in someone from the lower half of their top 30 to see if they might get lucky. Combine that with what a horrible human Verdugo apparently is and it drops to a D. Verdugo isn't a horrible human from reports. He attended a party in which something bad happened. That doesn't mean he knew, or was involved, in what happened. He over-slept once as a pro and missed the bus. No negatives in the last 2 years. I think some of you are REALLY trying to stretch to hate this trade. Dodgers fans aren't thrilled to lose Verdugo for 1 season of Mookie Betts. Perhaps Bloom was offered Downs or whomever and he simply liked Graterol better than the rest. The one thing that I will not defend this organization on is raising ticket prices to the most unaffordable sports venue on the planet and still trade away their best player and dump another to save salary. You can't burn the candle on both ends. Either you cut salary and AT WORST leave ticket prices as they are (should cut the cost of a ticket in a year like this, but whatever). I do hope to see Fenway empty. Baseball is struggling to attract new fans and their bright idea is to make a bad team unaffordable to watch. |
|
|
|
Post by awall on Feb 5, 2020 9:02:12 GMT -5
I think the return in this trade is fine. It speaks to how bad that Price deal really looks to the rest of MLB at this point. Yes, there will be a dip in the on-field product this year. I'm OK with that as long as they are able to reset the team for the long term, and I think that getting nothing but a draft pick for Mookie after this year and being stuck with that Price contract going into 2021 would not leave the team in as good a position moving forward.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,825
|
Post by nomar on Feb 5, 2020 9:09:13 GMT -5
I think the return in this trade is fine. It speaks to how bad that Price deal really looks to the rest of MLB at this point. Yes, there will be a dip in the on-field product this year. I'm OK with that as long as they are able to reset the team for the long term, and I think that getting nothing but a draft pick for Mookie after this year and being stuck with that Price contract going into 2021 would not leave the team in as good a position moving forward. Sonny Gray probably looked bad to everyone in baseball until he went from NYY to the NL. And Price already was a lot better than him. |
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 5, 2020 9:09:39 GMT -5
Including Price is the worst part of it for me. They sold low on him and will be paying like $50 million to not have him over three years. Combine that with Pedroia and we have like $75M in dead money over three years. I'd rather they sold Price as a separate piece after he has a good stretch this spring, and I am confident that he would have had one. Even if we ended up having more dead money in that deal (and its debatable we would have) I think we would've at least received a better overall return that way.
|
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Feb 5, 2020 9:09:39 GMT -5
The best part of the trade is getting rid of Price. I think Eck would agree.
They can always resign Betts next year.
I was hoping they would restock their farm system. Nope
If they suck in April, I hope people would just stop coming. Empty seats everywhere. In your face.
It's not about the team, it's about the money. I hope they enjoy it.
It's hard to care anymore.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,665
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 5, 2020 9:22:21 GMT -5
What bothers me most is that the Sox painted themselves into this corner by guaranteeing that they had no way out of luxury tax hell unless they dumped Betts and stapled Price to him.
Then they compounded it by not getting more out of LA. Verdugo is a good player. A downgrade from Betts, but who isn't? But still, a good piece to get.
However, the guy with great stuff they got is no cinch to be the young starter they have lacked for years. Instead he's more likely to be a closer.
What really bothers me is that they didn't get much out of anything with LA. They didn't get Jeter Downs. Didn't get a badly needed catching prospect. And they didn't even get a lottery ticket.
Why couldn't the Sox get a lottery ticket like the Angels got last night in their deal with the Dodgers? They got a 19 year old kid who showed a ton of power in rookie ball to actually go along with Pedersen for a future utility guy. Why couldn't the Sox have gotten that young OF?
They didn't get enough quality or quantity back.
They were never in a position of leverage as others thought and it showed in the deal they made.
If Sale doesn't pitch like an ace this year of misses extended time at some point, this team could easily be a 4th place sub-.500 team, one that probably would be better off stripping away the rest of the club minus Devers, Bogaerts, and maybe Benintendi.
|
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 9:23:22 GMT -5
No negatives in the last 2 years. I mean... he did just get traded away from his parent organization. If he's this easy three win player with upside and five years of control, AND no personality or coachability issues... why are the Dodgers trading him again? Yes, I know, World Series drought, but they're not crazy and they're not desperate. Verdugo was the guy they held the line at, not the guy the Red Sox forced them to give up in a hard-won negotiation. |
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 9:27:22 GMT -5
No negatives in the last 2 years. I mean... he did just get traded away from his parent organization. If he's this easy three win player with upside and five years of control, AND no personality or coachability issues... why are the Dodgers trading him again? Yes, I know, World Series drought, but they're not crazy and they're not desperate. Verdugo was the guy they held the line at, not the guy the Red Sox forced them to give up in a hard-won negotiation. Well, there's the whole back issue as well and if they're "all in" then Betts > Verdugo in increasing your odds for this year. |
|
|
|
Post by willacky on Feb 5, 2020 9:35:31 GMT -5
Pretty good because we got Verdugo and Graterol for a year of Betts who's also not cheap (28M) and declining Price.
We were even able to dump half of the Price's contract.
|
|
|
|
Post by juanpena on Feb 5, 2020 9:38:46 GMT -5
I have to hope the Sox did due diligence on the assault in the hotel room. I hope they have the guts to address it.
|
|
brisox
Rookie
SoxProspects Veteran
Posts: 87
|
Post by brisox on Feb 5, 2020 9:39:32 GMT -5
Not sure how much stock you put into this site but www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/ have it scored as a relatively even swap . I would have liked one more low level prospect as a sweetener but It seems fair to me , now lets clear out Bradley for prospects and get some meat into that farm. I am bored of trying to get excited about Jared Durran or Chatham or seeing if Groome ever shows promise . My belly is pretty full with 4 championships and I am actually happy for the Dodgers and hope this gives them enough to overcome the Yankees and Nats. This is the Big Bang of the Bloom era , it was necessary and now lets see what he can do with it. Great job by the whole FO to get this done. |
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 9:42:14 GMT -5
I have to hope the Sox did due diligence on the assault in the hotel room. I hope they have the guts to address it. I'm not as knowledgeable on this topic. Were charges pressed against him? Settlement? Accusations? All I've heard was that he was there, that's it. |
|
|
|
Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 5, 2020 9:50:27 GMT -5
I have to hope the Sox did due diligence on the assault in the hotel room. I hope they have the guts to address it. I'm not as knowledgeable on this topic. Were charges pressed against him? Settlement? Accusations? All I've heard was that he was there, that's it. He was at a party where a bunch of girls beat up a drunk girl, and James Baldwin allegedly sexually assaulted the same drunk girl when no one else in the room. Yes he (and the other players allegedly in the room at the time) should have stepped in to stop the girl from being beat up, but he had no part in the sexual assault. Basically he's guilty of being a stupid 20 yr old, and before you all pass judgment, think of how many stupid fight videos you've all watched on youtube where tons of ppl stand around and watch someone get beat. Yes he should have stepped in, no it's not some mortal sin that he didn't. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Feb 5, 2020 9:54:54 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 5, 2020 9:57:09 GMT -5
There's a lot to like here.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,069 
|
Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2020 9:59:31 GMT -5
I think the trade in itself is a solid one
But like people have said, the fact that they were in that position to begin with is absolutely terrible
Mookie will always be a favorite of mine. I appreciate Price for 2018. And I don’t think Verdugo is a scumbag human.
|
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 5, 2020 10:02:48 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly. Sure, but don't forget Brusdar Gaterol obviously sucks because the Twins would never erroneously misjudge a young player. |
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Feb 5, 2020 10:06:44 GMT -5
Brutal. Trade one of the best players your organization has ever produced, who also happens to be a blast to watch (this is entertainment) for an OF who... yawn, sorry I fell asleep. And a 20-year old maybe future closer? They will be lucky if the package produces the value of one more year of Mookie.
And, by the way, half-contract Price has the chance to be a steal. Guy is no longer an ace, but he was good last year before getting hurt. As a #3 starter with the Sox sharing the bill, the idea of getting him as an add-in makes me sick.
The Sox got pantsed on value, and worse, somethings are beyond measure. A home grown, appealing superstar is not to be traded. Let him walk if he must.
|
|
|
|
Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 5, 2020 10:15:15 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly. You're missing a few notes. John Henry is a selfish billionaire who's never done anything good for this organization. Verdugo's stats are a fluke (even the peripherals) and he isn't actually good, and he'll never play anyway because I heard he's got a broken back. Graterol is definitely a reliever and he'll probably weigh 400 lbs by April. Bloom could have gotten Jeter Downs and maybe Ruiz from the Dodgers if he had just thought to ask. |
|
|
|
Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 5, 2020 10:16:52 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly. Close: Mookie was always going to Free Agency, so better to get future/present assets for him than run out 2020 with a 90 win team that ends up 3rd in it's own division. David Price was maybe overpaid but absolutely underrated by most Sox fans because of some stupid misunderstood off-field stuff (Fortnite, Eck). And Verdugo is a great asset that a bunch of people on this board were looking for any reason to discourage, so I'm trying to correct them on that. Rather than go to extremes (everyone sucks, everyone is the best), can we all just try to keep things realistic? |
|
|
|
Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 5, 2020 10:20:33 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly. You're missing a few notes. John Henry is a selfish billionaire who's never done anything good for this organization. Verdugo's stats are a fluke (even the peripherals) and he isn't actually good, and he'll never play anyway because I heard he's got a broken back. Graterol is definitely a reliever and he'll probably weigh 400 lbs by April. Bloom could have gotten Jeter Downs and maybe Ruiz from the Dodgers if he had just thought to ask. Yes never did anything, that's why he tore down Fenway to build a new revenue generating stadium rather than pour money into the sinking ship (literally, it's sinking) that is Fenway Park. And why he continued to slash payroll to keep them in the bottom half of the MLB rather than be one of the highest payrolls in baseball. This is ridiculous. Yes maybe trying to get under the tax for 2020 isn't a great idea, but how did this ownership go from the best thing that ever happened to the Sox, to the worst group ever? Which owner of another MLB team do you want? |
|
orion09
Veteran
Posts: 1,220
Member is Online
|
Post by orion09 on Feb 5, 2020 10:22:46 GMT -5
Just taking notes here. Mookie Betts is a greedy me-first jerk who put his team in an impossible situation. David Price is an overpaid monster who had a beef with an announcer, didn't care enough, and needed to be traded. Also, Alex Verdugo didn't ***really*** do anything wrong. Just making sure I'm tracking everything correctly. James, are you implying he ***did*** do something wrong? Don’t really understand the glibness here. |
|
