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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Sept 27, 2014 17:54:33 GMT -5
Given this year's overall performance and probability? Didn't this year show us what can happen when you have to rely too much on internal guys who aren't proven?
If the team goes with Cechinni next year without some serious outside competition based on turning it around for two months or so it would be embarrassing.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 22, 2014 10:06:40 GMT -5
Don't really get this at all. It will be a fun offseason that is for sure.
To me it symbolizes they are giving up on JBJ and not a fan of Mookie in CF. Trade bait for both of those guys however it seems like a massive sell low on JBJ and that just doesn't seem like a great idea.
Prospects packaged up for starting pitching this offseason?
Anyways hopefully he is a standout and blows away the questions much like Puig and Abreu.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 21, 2014 19:09:55 GMT -5
Manny had a lot of deferred money and there is a hilarious video of Duquette explaining it to him. But I think deferred money would have to count for the years in which you are still playing. Might have been outlawed after but Bobby Bonilla says that isn't necessarily the case.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 5, 2014 10:48:29 GMT -5
He did get away with hanging a few curveballs. Are you talking in general throughout the game? I know Matt indicated he got hit hard in one inning and I am guessing those loud outs came as a result of that.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 5, 2014 10:24:45 GMT -5
Outside of the cureveball was the consistent hitting his spots. The curveball was lethal and missed low when it didn't hit Swihart's target which there is nothing wrong with that. The fastball showed pretty damn good command to me. The only miss that I saw seemed to be the curveball which probably caught to much of the plate.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 4, 2014 23:03:41 GMT -5
I remember another lefty with a low 90's fastball, great change, and an average curve. His name was Tom Glavine. I am not saying Owens is as good or will be as good as Glavine, but a few ticks on a fastball can be overrated. Owens needs to get better at his control and his command. If he does then we'll have a number 2. Isn't that basically what his scouting report says?
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 4, 2014 19:53:38 GMT -5
It would/will be very interesting to see a scouting report from tonight, especially if someone hasn't scouted them from before. Can't imagine it being worth much, but still an interesting take when he's at his best Sounds like his curveball has been looking terrific tonight which seems to be the key on his ceiling. If that progresses into a 'plus' pitch which it has been classified on Twitter tonight by Chaz does his ceiling go up a notch? With the caveat it is one night and a long way to go for it to be a staple plus pitch when it has been called average quite a bit in scouting reports.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Aug 1, 2014 0:16:18 GMT -5
And what I don't understand is why would you prefer the Cubs route relying almost exclusively on prospects? I understand eventually they will start spending money.
But of all the bats, what if 2-3 don't work out? Don't you set yourself pretty bad as a franchise?
The Red Sox have a good young core with Bradley, Xander, Betts, Vazquez and Swihart. To me what would you propose have a young up and coming prospect highly regarded at each position? That is very unrealistic and on top of that I would guess a few flame out and you are stuck with failed prospects that have very reduced trade value.
The Sox have a young core as outlined above and added a young power hitting OF that has shown power at the major league level. Not something that can be said about the prospects.
I think Ben said it best. We have a good farm system and like what we have but need to help the big league club out as much as possible now and for the future. Guys like Cespedes, Kelly and Craig aren't of the old declining nature like a Victorino type. There are questions but they have more of a chance to be here a while than the short term deals a year ago.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 15:24:40 GMT -5
Jackson is better than Cespedes and Franklin and Smyly are both better than a supplemental pick. Even if that's the entire return (and I don't think it is), it beats what the Sox got for Lester. How can you include Jackson in comparing the Lester/Price hauls? For their return, Tampa has supposedly only received Franklin and Smyly.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 15:00:27 GMT -5
Nevermind.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 14:57:50 GMT -5
If a third team was not involved I can't imagine the Rays got anything too amazing for Price. Maybe Smyly? Supposedly Franklin going to Tampa and Austin Jackson/Smyly going to Seattle. Have to figure more is going to Tampa.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 14:44:01 GMT -5
Drew to the Yankees.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 14:09:41 GMT -5
Why we have to give him to our Div rival? They played great in extra innings & won most of time with their relievers. Give him? I would like to think getting Rodriguez is a pretty good haul. And it isn't like Miller isn't a free agent after the year.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 14:05:11 GMT -5
Eduardo Rodriguez coming back.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 13:33:53 GMT -5
Right, it's rare for the Yankees to lose their own key FA player with $175 mil offer (not low ball). Seattle caught them by surprise with their better offer. If the Yanks get Lester for only 5-6/100-120 price range then, it's lose-lose for the RS that undervalue him in the market. If Jon Lester goes to the Yankees for 5 years and $100MM you don't think the Sox offer that as well? I am guessing if Jon Lester gets 5 years and $100MM there is only one team that gets him at that discount and it would be the team that just traded him.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 13:31:54 GMT -5
Stark saying that the Rays nearing a deal for Price.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 11:29:45 GMT -5
What could we get from the Cards or Dodgers for Lackey? I would think a better haul than Lester given his valuable contract status for next year. Although who knows what is said behind close doors and what those teams believe he will play for.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 11:21:07 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I respect everyone's right here to have an opinion, and I'm sure you all believe in yours as strongly as I believe in mine. I am willing to give Cherrington a chance to flip Cespedes in a larger package for something better, or Cespedes plays out of his mind and leads this team to another World Series next year. But if that doesn't happen, and now you can't even QO the guy, I think this trade is another Ben Cherrington bust. But we got a compensation pick back. So do you think holding onto Lester and getting a pick in the #30-35 range is more valuable than a round B selection (30 or so spots back) and Cespedes for 1.5 years which you allude to giving you a lot of options? Or would you have preferred a second tier prospect such as Piscotty which signals you are giving up on next year almost. This trade fills your LF void at a reasonable cost for next year who is a good not great overall player. Or it allows you to flip him in a larger deal. And it even allows you to throw out a 5 year $90MM offer and make a player like Betts more available in a trade.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 11:17:46 GMT -5
Cody Ross has had exactly 2 seasons in his career better than Cespedes' worst season. Cespedes should be a 3 WAR player going forward which is extremely valuable for next year and beyond if they decide to extend him. I am talking solely about offensive performance here. Yet you included defense in your original post.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5
guidas, come back from the ledge. We got Cespedes so we could convince Castillo to come here. Cuba is heaven along with Japan (which is also why we're not trading Koji). It is Billy Beane, any deal we go with into with him would be guided as a mistake by Guidas. Even if we won unanimously on paper he would say there must be something wrong, Beane is probably laughing in his office.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 10:10:04 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible Well that throws a wrench into your views of the deal.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 9:51:33 GMT -5
So a 3 WAR player is a good return for the best arm on the market? What were you expecting? This isn't 3 years ago when if you traded for someone you could still offer arbitration and get a first round pick and a sandwich round selection. The only piece of news that was truthful yesterday was they seemingly were seeking an MLB ready player back. That dwindles the field considerably (Outside of maybe the Pirates with Marte). It seems not team was going to give up top prospects and I would prefer Cespedes over Piscotty (As that seemed like the realistic prospect target). At the end of the day either the Sox knew the Lester's camp number and knew it is likely beyond their willingness to go and dealt him for a higher return now than just a draft pick (As if that was the result people would still be groaning this offseason). Or they know it and are comfortable with the number/understand his desire to return is real and they wanted to get talent back.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 29, 2014 12:08:33 GMT -5
And we think the Sox are going to sit on the $100m they have coming off the payroll because.... Are they going to be more willing to shove out money for a front of the line starter? That wouldn't seem to me to be the case as it is always their philosophy, which I agree with, to place a number on a player and not exceed that. Unless they say hey we hit on prospects at SS, CF, C, 3B, LF and RF (Which I think saying that most would call that highly unlikely) and we have $100MM+ are they going to extend those rules? Because I don't think paying $10-$15MM on back end guys is going to help all that much.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 29, 2014 11:34:34 GMT -5
My own opinion here. Out of all the players I watched during spring training, Joc Pederson was hands down the best looking prospect. If you've not watched him hit or play the outfield, do it now. That's what YouTube is for. The Sox could be looking at a future lineup that would include potential all-stars in LF, RF, and 3B, gold-glovers at SS, CF, 2B, and some combo of those awards with not ONE but TWO catchers. Vazquez already looks like the best defensive backstop to come along in quite a while. All that is before we get to the ridiculous number of potential starters, talk about a jam-up. You might be able to construct two 5-man pitching rotations from what they've stockpiled at this point. I'm willing to sit back and see how this all unfolds, but one thing is for certain: we're watching the creation of what might be a very competitive lineup for the long haul. While I understand the pain from the possible loss of Lester, there will still be an opportunity to bid up for his services. The question comes down to this: how many good, very good, and great players do you need to create a team that wins a lot more often than they lose? Let's bring Beane in here to discuss this... Add: ...AND I forgot the super-duper ultra-utility guy, someone who can play all the outfield and infield positions at average or better. All of that is well and good but you don't expand upon the pitching. We have a wealth of prospects but projections are not so kind on many of them with our best pitching prospect being a #2 (Not that that isn't good mind you). However with the teams reluctance to spend large money if those guys don't pan out then you are in major trouble. Secondly you could very well have a bust or two if you get Pederson and wind up with two mediocre MLB players at 3B, LF and RF which leaves you hurting for offense significantly. The sound of it is all well and good but we are talking potential All-Stars none which have shown too much at the MLB level, albeit with very limited or no MLB experience.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 29, 2014 11:04:51 GMT -5
Since no one is discussing it, if Toronto is actually the most aggressive in pursing Lester, who are we looking at from them? Norris + Pompey? There system is good, but not exactly outrageously deep. Amfox has a list that he would go after in the trade proposal forum. He said any deal would have to start with either Norris or Sanchez. Assuming Stroman is off the table.
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