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Trade Deadline Thread - Discussion Only
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 25, 2013 18:30:28 GMT -5
The option is highly unlikely to be triggered. He needs 400 innings pitched between 2013 and 2014.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 25, 2013 18:56:31 GMT -5
I like Peavy. Way more than Garza. Who cares if he's injury prone, it's not like we'd be relying on him either this year or next, this is about making marginal improvements to win a championship. Give them one decent prospect, sign Gonzalez and put him in the pen for the rest of this year. Ship the rings.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 25, 2013 19:10:09 GMT -5
Guarentee if we get this guy he does not stay healthy this year, I not even going to get into next year, I think he goes down for something this year. I pray Chicago gets cocky and asks for Xander. Peavy hasn't had arm issues in a couple years. I am fairly certain since he came back in May of 2011, after surgery in 2010, his rm has been fine. He had a great year in 2012 and has this year oter then his broken rib which s nothing to be worried about. He's a top notch pitcher. I still wouldn't give up a lot.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 25, 2013 19:57:15 GMT -5
I like Peavy. Way more than Garza. Who cares if he's injury prone, it's not like we'd be relying on him either this year or next, this is about making marginal improvements to win a championship. Give them one decent prospect, sign Gonzalez and put him in the pen for the rest of this year. Ship the rings. Jake Peavy doesn't guarantee you squat. Brandon Workman is just as likely to help the pen as Gonzales. I'll hold on to Middlebrooks for another year. I feel Buchholz will be back by the end of August. I'm fine with the rotation we have once that happens. Would rather just pick up a bullpen arm at a much cheaper cost than Middlebrooks, whom I think starts at 3b opening day next year alongside Bogaerts. We also have all 5 starters back next year. A waste of money and resources for marginal upgrades and unknowns. Now, if you want to talk Cliff Lee. That's a different story. He's no marginal upgrade. But, it doesn't appear the Phillies are interested in dealing him.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jul 25, 2013 20:02:35 GMT -5
He does, a conditional one.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 25, 2013 20:37:53 GMT -5
I like Peavy. Way more than Garza. Who cares if he's injury prone, it's not like we'd be relying on him either this year or next, this is about making marginal improvements to win a championship. Give them one decent prospect, sign Gonzalez and put him in the pen for the rest of this year. Ship the rings. Jake Peavy doesn't guarantee you squat. Brandon Workman is just as likely to help the pen as Gonzales. I'll hold on to Middlebrooks for another year. I feel Buchholz will be back by the end of August. I'm fine with the rotation we have once that happens. Would rather just pick up a bullpen arm at a much cheaper cost than Middlebrooks, whom I think starts at 3b opening day next year alongside Bogaerts. We also have all 5 starters back next year. A waste of money and resources for marginal upgrades and unknowns. Now, if you want to talk Cliff Lee. That's a different story. He's no marginal upgrade. But, it doesn't appear the Phillies are interested in dealing him. Nothing is guaranteed. None of the coveted prospects guarantee any Major League contributions. They are just prospects. There is a much bigger guarantee acquiring a guy like Peavy. No, they shouldn't go for him at any cost. But for a B level prospect? Sure.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jul 25, 2013 20:42:13 GMT -5
Can't wait to see that the MFY gave up a high end prospect for Soriano in exchange for the Cubs eating most of his contract
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 25, 2013 20:51:06 GMT -5
I can't wait to see the Yankees have a high end prospect...let me know when that happens.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 25, 2013 21:53:23 GMT -5
The White Sox are very much devoid of high end prospects. They really do need to trade Peavy to help the rebuild. They need prospects more than the Red Sox need pitching. So I would be shocked if a trade is not made before the deadline.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 25, 2013 22:04:56 GMT -5
Jon Morosi ?@jonmorosi1m #RedSox had high-level scout at today's Gallardo-Volquez matchup in Milwaukee. Bullpen pieces available for both Brewers and Padres too. twitter.com/jonmorosi
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 25, 2013 23:26:27 GMT -5
It was a few years ago when San Diego decided it had to dump Peavy, after he basically had become the face of the franchise. It is easy to forget what a sensational pitcher he once was. Many of us here on this board frequently expressed our desire that the Sox acquire him. The management must have been prescient because not long after he was traded he starting getting hurt. He didn't have a good season for about three years until last year.
I don't know if he is anywhere close to what he once was, but if he is, he is worth taking a flier on, if the cost is not outrageous. He may well be the kind of pitcher who can beat the Matt Moores of the world in the post season, assuming the Sox score a run or two.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2013 23:47:04 GMT -5
I like Jake Peavy as a pitcher. Always have, but I'd be very leery of giving up alot of talent to get him (which is what would ultimately happen). My sense/feeling is that it would cost the Sox a pitcher like Anthony Ranaudo who profiles as a #3 starter who could possibly be a #2.
I don't really see how Peavy would be worth six years of control of Ranaudo. This isn't the Jake Peavy of his San Diego days. This guy is no longer an ace, and honestly wouldn't even slot in ahead of Lackey in the Sox rotation.
Don't get me wrong. He's still a good pitcher. He has an excellent K/BB ratio, but he is very home run prone. He's giving up about 1.3 HRs/9 IP, which concerns me. More concerning is that he's very prone to the disabled list. I don't know that you can really count on him being healthy going forward.
If the Sox were to make the post-season beyond the one-game play-in, you'd want a healthy Buchholz - if that's the case, Lackey, and the way he's been pitching - Doubront to take a turn in the post-season. If Lester continues to get his stuff together he'd get a turn too with Dempster getting bumped to the pen.
Assuming Buchholz is reasonably healthy and effective (which could be a dubious assumption on my part) then Peavy would basically bump out either Lester or Doubront out of the rotation and into the pen (most likely Doubront). At this stage of the game, how much better is Peavy than Doubront? This is a question, I'll be honest, that I never thought I'd ever ask? But it cannot be denied - Doubront has been very effective and seems to be improving with just about every outing.
What Peavy would be best at is insurance against Buchholz not getting healthy or somebody else in the rotation going down, especially now that Webster won't be a factor in the rotation for this season. That's the only way it really makes sense to me, but I'd hate to see the Sox pay too much for that kind of insurance. I truly feel that Ranaudo and Barnes will be knocking on the door next year, and of course I'm crossing my fingers that Webster regains his erratic control. I'd just hate to see that starting pitching depth whittled away and then probably have to give more on top of that for a good, but no longer great pitcher, who'll likely miss a good deal of time on the DL.
And if there's one thing we should have learned by now is that a player prone to being on the DL will usually find their way onto the DL (Buchholz and Bailey come to mind very quickly.)
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 26, 2013 0:20:51 GMT -5
I am not sure it is fair to assume Peavy will be a great injury risk. He did have several years of problems, but he was strong last year, and his injury this year was a broken rib. However, even though he only is 32, he has been in the majors since he was 21, so his 32 might be an old 32. Your point is not unreasonable.
However, he also could be this year's Curt Shilling. He has that kind of competitive personality, and the experience that the Sox SPs don't have.
As I said, it is a matter of the cost. I don't think the Sox should give up one of the top level prospects, and I would include Ranaudo among them. But I think they could put together a package of mid level prospects who would be better than what the White Sox have in their system now.
I have given up trying to figure out Buchholz. If he pitches, he will be very good, or very bad. I don't think he ever will be the ace of the staff. Lester isn't, either. Lackey and Doubront are the two best, and most reliable pitchers now. I don't see Dempster as anything other than a number 5 starter, and I would not be surprised to see him traded, either now, or in the off season.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 26, 2013 4:12:38 GMT -5
Jake Peavy doesn't guarantee you squat. Brandon Workman is just as likely to help the pen as Gonzales. I'll hold on to Middlebrooks for another year. I feel Buchholz will be back by the end of August. I'm fine with the rotation we have once that happens. Would rather just pick up a bullpen arm I agree that the Sox could use a solid bullpen arm more than another middle starter. I just happen to think that Dempster would be a pretty good setup man. (And I disagree with you about WMB, but that's another topic.) Speaking of Cliff Lee, I hear the Phillies are looking for a center fielder. I would be happy with a deal where JBJ was the centerpiece in acquiring him...
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 26, 2013 6:32:29 GMT -5
Jake Peavy doesn't guarantee you squat. Brandon Workman is just as likely to help the pen as Gonzales. I'll hold on to Middlebrooks for another year. I feel Buchholz will be back by the end of August. I'm fine with the rotation we have once that happens. Would rather just pick up a bullpen arm I agree that the Sox could use a solid bullpen arm more than another middle starter. I just happen to think that Dempster would be a pretty good setup man. (And I disagree with you about WMB, but that's another topic.) Speaking of Cliff Lee, I hear the Phillies are looking for a center fielder. I would be happy with a deal where JBJ was the centerpiece in acquiring him... A year ago Middlebrooks was all the rage and now for many he is wild swinging dog meat. The reverse is the case with Iglesias. Peavy is not the pitcher he once was....a competitor...yes. Same is true about Dempster...a competitor. But Peavy is cruising to an ERA similar to Lester and Dempster. I don't want to throw the farm away every year to patch my team hoping that lightning will strike. Papi will soon be gone. Wouldn't it be nice to have Cecchhini, Bradley, Iglesias, Middlebrooks on our field at low cost?.....and then be able to spend big for top pieces? Will all stick? Who knows but I am willing to wait. I hope Ben is too. But I believe that Larry is publicly posturing regarding giving up chips. I think that we will lose some of our stable. I just can't see whatever staff we then have match against Moore, Price, Cobb, Archer, etc. We don't have the type of hitters IMO (Papi & Pedey excepted) that can consistently hit that very top pitching.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 26, 2013 6:42:35 GMT -5
The same people who are saying Peavy will cost Middlebrooks and Ranaudo or 2 top ten prospects are the same guys who said Thornton would cost Owens or Cecchini.
The White Sox will get a similar package to what Seattle got for Eric Bedard. This is a salary dump for them.
Peavy is Bedard 2.0 and if the sox get him the same thing will happen. I'll say it again, this team doesn't need another 5 inning pitcher with serious injury history.
I'd take Gallardo over Peavy .... Gallardo pitched nearly 200 innings the last 4 years and averaged about a K per 9 . Yeah his K's are down this year, but at least he'll give you innings and be healthy.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 26, 2013 7:45:41 GMT -5
Hold pat young grasshoppers. That is what we should do. The argument above about Peavy is right on. WHO would he replace if we were fortunate enough to get to October? I personally really like Workman and Middlebrooks (still).
This statement I am about to make will not be popular with probably everyone here. EVERYTHING would have to go right for us to go deep into the playoffs even if we get in. This team I love, but they are flawed. They have too many holes as constructed currently to really be a serious contender this year. When they lost half of their bullpen, they lost one advantage they MAY have had on the Rays' staff. What Matt Moore and David Price showed us this week is how dominate they are and how we may not have an answer to them or Cobb or Hellicson. Their offense is now solid too! The Orioles are very good also.
By all means I don't count out this bunch of ours. They have been amazing and relentless, but in some ways our success has made us consider trading away some very valuable pieces early. For me....too early.
Jake Peavy will not make us sufficiently better. The talent available is sparse. The only player who may be worth some of our top prospects is Cliff Lee. He is the only one who could make a huge difference. But even there, I would NOT consider trading Xander, Bradley, or Cecchini. THAT is our future along with Pedroia. Hopefully we understand the landscape and don't go overboard this week. I'm all for doing little, if anything. I would love to see Brandon Workman fill in for Buch until he comes back (if he comes back this year). I still believe in Will Middlebrooks. He didn't just forget how to hammer a fastball. He is still only 24 people. How many guys to we have who have the capability of hitting 25 to 30 homers per year? Giving up on him when he finally has a hiccup is outrageous.
I have really enjoyed this team They have made last year's "Horror Show" seem like it (almost) didn't happen. But none of us saw this team being in first place on July 26th. They have played their hearts out, but without a 2009 Lester and a healthy Buchholz, a deep hard throwing bullpen, and a number 5 hitter not striking out over 30% of the time can you honestly say that Jake Peavy and another bullpen arm will put us over the top???
Most of us saw NEXT YEAR as a potential rebirth of us becoming an organization ready to compete with everyone. I still do. Our success this year actually (if we make bad decisions) may de-rail that direction. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some meaningful baseball games in Boston in September (and maybe even in October), but this team will not be THE team in 2 years. Ben has done a superior job. I vaguely remember someone named Theo now. But for me, and hopefully Ben, we need to be patient and not do anything stupid for ONE season over what may happen for the next EIGHT seasons (or more).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2013 8:05:23 GMT -5
This team I love, but they are flawed. They have too many holes as constructed currently to really be a serious contender this year. I agree with the first sentence, and that's exactly why they need to make some moves. There is a time to hold on to your prospects. That time isn't necessarily when you've got the best record in the league with a team that could use some pieces. Otherwise, you're just wasting an opportunity. I'm not saying to trade Bogaerts, but getting stingy because you might trade the one of the six AAA/AA pitchers who might become a number three instead of the back-end start/bullpen arms they might become is silly. I'll be shocked and disappointed if they don't do SOMETHING to help the major league club. I'm not quite sure where that is, admittedly. This is not the same as last year, when the club was technically still in contention at the trade deadline but the writing was on the wall that the ship was about to go down.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 26, 2013 8:24:02 GMT -5
I don't really see how Peavy would be worth six years of control of Ranaudo. This isn't the Jake Peavy of his San Diego days. This guy is no longer an ace, and honestly wouldn't even slot in ahead of Lackey in the Sox rotation. Right now, Lackey is our #2 starter behind Buchholz, so having Peavy slot in behind Lackey is a good thing. To imply otherwise is just wrong. Based on 2013 performance, I would rank our starters Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront, Lester and Dempster. Peavy would be our #4 starter, ahead of Lester and Dempster. With Buchholz out, Peavy would be our #3 starter and Workman would slot in the bullpen (or go back to AAA as the de facto 6th starter). I also think a Peavy trade sets up a dynamic where Dempster goes to the bullpen in September and October (if everyone is healthy) and sets up a bullpen of Uehara, Tazawa, Dempster, Breslow, Workman, Thornton and one of De La Torre/Wilson/Beato/Britton. I don't see RDLR or Webster making an impact this year.
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Post by jdb on Jul 26, 2013 8:28:40 GMT -5
If the cost is Ranuado + some 40 man roster filler (maybe even Britton) I think we make the deal. Its fair to bring up Peavy's injury concern but Ranuado isn't exactly Cal Ripkin either. His value might not ever be higher. Peavy allows you to push Workman into the pen which would be a huge boost there. When our SPs are going 5-6 innings he could come in and save the bullpen. Once, if , Buch comes back you could phantom DL a guy or two to get them ready for post season as well. Say mid Sept the rotation is Buch, Lester, Lacky, Peavy and Doubront with Workman and Dempster helping out in the pen. That sounds good to me going forward.
That still leaves us in 2014 with MLB proven SP that is very tradable. If you even go as far as signing MAG it gives you crazy depth going into the winter meetings. Buch, Peavy (could be a draft pick to), Lester, MAG, Lackey, Doubrount, Dempster and Workman as a swing guy. That doesn't include Webster, Barnes and Rubby in AAA with Owens and Ball waiting in the wings.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 26, 2013 8:30:27 GMT -5
This team I love, but they are flawed. They have too many holes as constructed currently to really be a serious contender this year. I agree with the first sentence, and that's exactly why they need to make some moves. There is a time to hold on to your prospects. That time isn't necessarily when you've got the best record in the league with a team that could use some pieces. Otherwise, you're just wasting an opportunity. I'm not saying to trade Bogaerts, but getting stingy because you might trade the one of the six AAA/AA pitchers who might become a number three instead of the back-end start/bullpen arms they might become is silly. I'll be shocked and disappointed if they don't do SOMETHING to help the major league club. I'm not quite sure where that is, admittedly. This is not the same as last year, when the club was technically still in contention at the trade deadline but the writing was on the wall that the ship was about to go down.[/b] You can make an argument the writing is on the wall now. Not to the degree, but major cracks are there. I do agree with not wasting an opportunity, but that works both ways. An opportunity to win now and an opportunity to build a great core going forward. Does trading GC or JB ruin the chance to build a core? No, but it severely hurts it. Does adding a bullpen arm and a starter increase their chances this year? Possibly, if they succeed, but if they make trades his years its got to be with the WS in mind, not a deep run. It's NOT a success for this group to make the ALCS IF it requires giving up big pieces of the future. You'd be hard pressed to find big trades that have put a team over the top to a WS.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2013 8:44:17 GMT -5
I agree with the first sentence, and that's exactly why they need to make some moves. There is a time to hold on to your prospects. That time isn't necessarily when you've got the best record in the league with a team that could use some pieces. Otherwise, you're just wasting an opportunity. I'm not saying to trade Bogaerts, but getting stingy because you might trade the one of the six AAA/AA pitchers who might become a number three instead of the back-end start/bullpen arms they might become is silly. I'll be shocked and disappointed if they don't do SOMETHING to help the major league club. I'm not quite sure where that is, admittedly. This is not the same as last year, when the club was technically still in contention at the trade deadline but the writing was on the wall that the ship was about to go down.[/b] You can make an argument the writing is on the wall now. Not to the degree, but major cracks are there. I do agree with not wasting an opportunity, but that works both ways. An opportunity to win now and an opportunity to build a great core going forward. Does trading GC or JB ruin the chance to build a core? No, but it severely hurts it. Does adding a bullpen arm and a starter increase their chances this year? Possibly, if they succeed, but if they make trades his years its got to be with the WS in mind, not a deep run. It's NOT a success for this group to make the ALCS IF it requires giving up big pieces of the future. You'd be hard pressed to find big trades that have put a team over the top to a WS. [/quote] Well... www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/cliff_lee_ben_francisco_headed.htmlAnd then this happened: sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5367615And one could argue: www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2013/07/trading_for_doug_fister_the_de.html
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 26, 2013 8:45:06 GMT -5
I am not sure it is fair to assume Peavy will be a great injury risk. He did have several years of problems, but he was strong last year, and his injury this year was a broken rib. However, even though he only is 32, he has been in the majors since he was 21, so his 32 might be an old 32. Your point is not unreasonable. However, he also could be this year's Curt Shilling. He has that kind of competitive personality, and the experience that the Sox SPs don't have. As I said, it is a matter of the cost. I don't think the Sox should give up one of the top level prospects, and I would include Ranaudo among them. But I think they could put together a package of mid level prospects who would be better than what the White Sox have in their system now. I have given up trying to figure out Buchholz. If he pitches, he will be very good, or very bad. I don't think he ever will be the ace of the staff. Lester isn't, either. Lackey and Doubront are the two best, and most reliable pitchers now. I don't see Dempster as anything other than a number 5 starter, and I would not be surprised to see him traded, either now, or in the off season. What does this even mean?
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 26, 2013 8:45:52 GMT -5
Sorry this team the starting line up is not made for playoff baseball. Nobody sees this. I love this team but I see this plain and simple. You have to see what you have internally . If they didn't have the kids in AAA I would not be suggesting this. Promote Xander,Brentz and JBJ. If it doesn't pan out make a deal before August deadline. Much cheaper more teams will be sellers.
See you later Drew and move Iggy ( the slap hitter over). See what Nava can get you. This is my plan. Not perfect but I try to address the needs f the team.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 26, 2013 8:56:41 GMT -5
That's a bunch of crap. This line-up is one of the best in baseball, to say that it will magically go away because it's the playoffs is garbage. If anything the last couple years have proven, just make the dance and a lot can happen from there.
I'm not saying don't make any improvements. I'd get a bullpen arm (which I think they will) and try and sign MAG, if we get outspent for MAG then trade Almanzar and Britton for Gallardo. I agree with shopping Iggy or Drew and I think Xander needs to be up here as the starting 3B or SS.
Make some tweaks, don't trade anyone in the top 15 or so. we need a lot of bullets to throw against the wall in the next coming years.
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