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8/8-8/11 Red Sox @ Royals Series Thread
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 12, 2013 8:23:52 GMT -5
I have it on good word that Larry Lucchino ordered Farrell to throw the game. Every game Farrell wins beyond Bobby V makes Larry look very stupid for hiring Bobby V. He's quite chapped by the Sox success and has ordered a hit if Farrell doesn't start losing some games.
The above paragraph makes about as much sense as the way this thread has drifted.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2013 8:45:59 GMT -5
I won't imply it. I'll say it. Farrell cost the team at least a game in this series. Maybe two by letting Peavy stay in in the 6th after he was clearly gassed in the 5th of game 2. Even with the 3 run lead, once he put a man on (and then the next one, and then...) and it was hard contact - he should've been out. Perhaps even a bigger mistake was not warming someone up between innings to be ready.
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Post by hammerhead on Aug 12, 2013 15:08:03 GMT -5
You don't pinch hit your Back-up LF-1B in the ninth inning with no one on base for your starting 3rdbaseman just to gain a platoon advantage. Take a look at the splits. That is Mickey-Mouse shit 101. If Farrell managed like that he'd have a losing record by the all-star break. This is all cry baby shit. Sometimes the best move is a non-move for so many more reasons than a platoon advantage.
Knocking the Peavy trade because of one poor start against a hot team is also silly. Iglesias was worth giving up for Peavy six ways till Sunday and twice on thursday and all that jazz.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 12, 2013 15:14:39 GMT -5
You don't pinch hit your Back-up LF-1B in the ninth inning with no one on base for your starting 3rdbaseman just to gain a platoon advantage. Take a look at the splits. That is Mickey-Mouse shit 101. If Farrell managed like that he'd have a losing record by the all-star break. This is all cry baby shit. Sometimes the best move is a non-move for so many more reasons than a platoon advantage. Knocking the Peavy trade because of one poor start against a hot team is also silly. Iglesias was worth giving up for Peavy six ways till Sunday and twice on thursday and all that jazz. Even as a big Iggy fan I agree. Also the Farrell bashing is really getting dumb. I'll Monday morning QB as much as the next guy but the last few pages are way off.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 12, 2013 15:29:20 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we need to be paying our 6th starter 12.5 mil next season when we have guys like Workman ready to go. I'd really like to see some of these guys break into our rotation next season and now thats very unlikely. Does that make sense?
That could play into weather or not we sign guys in the offseason that could really help this club.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 12, 2013 16:10:02 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we need to be paying our 6th starter 12.5 mil next season when we have guys like Workman ready to go. I'd really like to see some of these guys break into our rotation next season and now thats very unlikely. Does that make sense? That could play into weather or not we sign guys in the offseason that could really help this club. Because the "guys like Workman" aren't guaranteed to be major league starting pitchers. There is a very good reason why the team is looking at Workman, Britton, and De La Rosa in the bullpen right now. Three good starts in the majors did not change Workman's projection. Also, number of starting pitchers used by the Red Sox each year, beginning with this one and working backwards: 11, 9, 10, 8, 11, 11, 9, 14... Number of pitchers w/ at least 5 starts: 7 (plus Peavy), 8, 9, 6, 9, 8, 7, 11 So there'll be plenty of opportunity to come up if they force their way up, but guys like Webster and Ranaudo will still have plenty to work on in Pawtucket. By the way, what signing do you really think they won't make now that they have Peavy? Drew, Ellsbury, Hanrahan, Napoli, and Salty come off the books, with at least two, possibly three of those guys not coming back. There will be room under the CBT for what they need.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 12, 2013 17:04:22 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we need to be paying our 6th starter 12.5 mil next season when we have guys like Workman ready to go. I'd really like to see some of these guys break into our rotation next season and now thats very unlikely. Does that make sense? That could play into weather or not we sign guys in the offseason that could really help this club. Because the "guys like Workman" aren't guaranteed to be major league starting pitchers. There is a very good reason why the team is looking at Workman, Britton, and De La Rosa in the bullpen right now. Three good starts in the majors did not change Workman's projection. Also, number of starting pitchers used by the Red Sox each year, beginning with this one and working backwards: 11, 9, 10, 8, 11, 11, 9, 14... Number of pitchers w/ at least 5 starts: 7 (plus Peavy), 8, 9, 6, 9, 8, 7, 11 So there'll be plenty of opportunity to come up if they force their way up, but guys like Webster and Ranaudo will still have plenty to work on in Pawtucket. By the way, what signing do you really think they won't make now that they have Peavy? Drew, Ellsbury, Hanrahan, Napoli, and Salty come off the books, with at least two, possibly three of those guys not coming back. There will be room under the CBT for what they need. I would really like this team to add some financial stability for the future. I think it has made some wise moves but I also believe a power bat at 1st base is a bigger need than starting pitching. I think we could've flipped Iglesias for at the very least a power hitting prospect. If I'm not mistaken, the Sox received some excellent offers for Lester in the offseason and turned them down. Ive been a life-long fan and I consider the Sox very lucky to have dodged a bullet with the Crawford and Gonzalez contracts. But what was the point of dumping Beckett if we were just going to sign Dempster? I like what this team is doing jn a lot of respects but I don't think quick fixes are the answer. The way I see it, we're still rebuilding this team in the wake of what happened the last few years - making panic moves at the deadline and offseason and trading away good players.I don't really see this team getting past the Tigers or Rangers this season. Maybe they could get hot, who knows? But I think panic moves are a bad idea. Hopefully that explains my position.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Aug 12, 2013 17:04:55 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we need to be paying our 6th starter 12.5 mil next season when we have guys like Workman ready to go. I'd really like to see some of these guys break into our rotation next season and now thats very unlikely. Does that make sense? That could play into weather or not we sign guys in the offseason that could really help this club. Because the "guys like Workman" aren't guaranteed to be major league starting pitchers. There is a very good reason why the team is looking at Workman, Britton, and De La Rosa in the bullpen right now. Three good starts in the majors did not change Workman's projection. Also, number of starting pitchers used by the Red Sox each year, beginning with this one and working backwards: 11, 9, 10, 8, 11, 11, 9, 14... Number of pitchers w/ at least 5 starts: 7 (plus Peavy), 8, 9, 6, 9, 8, 7, 11 So there'll be plenty of opportunity to come up if they force their way up, but guys like Webster and Ranaudo will still have plenty to work on in Pawtucket. By the way, what signing do you really think they won't make now that they have Peavy? Drew, Ellsbury, Hanrahan, Napoli, and Salty come off the books, with at least two, possibly three of those guys not coming back. There will be room under the CBT for what they need. Interestingly, Soxprospects' projected 2014 roster page has NONE of these 5 players returning.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 12, 2013 17:29:49 GMT -5
Fyi - I appreciate a healthy debate on this topic and you made a lot of good points. Its just my opinion.
From what I read earlier, workman projected as a #5 starter. Thats all we wouldve needed even without Peavy. Once bucholz came back, he could've gone back down to the farm anyway. His stuff makes more sense as a starter from what I've read than a reliever, where I've heard the reverse about RDLR and Britton.
Now we're in a postition where we may be paying Dempster 12M to be a long relief pitcher pretty soon here.
Britton and RDLR in the pen I agree with.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 12, 2013 18:56:29 GMT -5
It's just so handy to be able to park your starting pitching depth in AAA if they have options. In today's world it is needed as has been shown over and over with the Redsox recently. We blow through 10 starters a year in a heartbeat. Plus those young guys usually cannot throw as many innings as the vets so it works out very well if they can park a guy like Workman in AAA, saving his service time if possible to get more years of control out of him and keeping his arm injury free.
The Kansas City announcers were raving about Workman in the recent broadcasts. He would definitely be coveted around the league with what he has shown already.
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Post by jmei on Aug 12, 2013 21:41:05 GMT -5
From what I read earlier, workman projected as a #5 starter. Thats all we wouldve needed even without Peavy. Once bucholz came back, he could've gone back down to the farm anyway. His stuff makes more sense as a starter from what I've read than a reliever, where I've heard the reverse about RDLR and Britton. Now we're in a postition where we may be paying Dempster 12M to be a long relief pitcher pretty soon here. Dempster at one year at $13.25m is eminently movable, especially if the Red Sox threw in some cash. He's also only around for one more year, which means he doesn't affect future payroll flexibility-- the Red Sox won't come close to the tax line in 2014 and his salary is gone after that. He's overpaid, but he doesn't prevent the Red Sox from making any move they'd otherwise want to (i.e., re-signing Ellsbury or going after McCann/Choo/etc. in FA). I also think you're giving the 2013 Red Sox short shift. We were spoiled between 2007-10, with the Red Sox in playoff position each year and a strong core of homegrown talent. With the re-rise of the Orioles/Blue Jays, being in a position to win the division in August is going to be harder than ever, and with the new Wild Card play-in game, the importance of winning the division is more important than ever. It would be penny wise but pound foolish to decide to not pay the minimal price to upgrade this year's team-- Iglesias was a sell-high candidate, and Workman was never going to be able to sustain that level of performance as s starter. In baseball, as we see time and again, getting into the playoffs and getting hot once you're in is far more important than end-to-end dominance (see: 2001 Mariners, 2010 Giants).
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 12, 2013 22:06:23 GMT -5
I just don't understand why we need to be paying our 6th starter 12.5 mil next season when we have guys like Workman ready to go. I'd really like to see some of these guys break into our rotation next season and now thats very unlikely. Does that make sense? That could play into weather or not we sign guys in the offseason that could really help this club. Because the "guys like Workman" aren't guaranteed to be major league starting pitchers. There is a very good reason why the team is looking at Workman, Britton, and De La Rosa in the bullpen right now. Three good starts in the majors did not change Workman's projection. Also, number of starting pitchers used by the Red Sox each year, beginning with this one and working backwards: 11, 9, 10, 8, 11, 11, 9, 14... Number of pitchers w/ at least 5 starts: 7 (plus Peavy), 8, 9, 6, 9, 8, 7, 11 So there'll be plenty of opportunity to come up if they force their way up, but guys like Webster and Ranaudo will still have plenty to work on in Pawtucket. By the way, what signing do you really think they won't make now that they have Peavy? Drew, Ellsbury, Hanrahan, Napoli, and Salty come off the books, with at least two, possibly three of those guys not coming back. There will be room under the CBT for what they need. I am with you on needing some sort of reliable veteran arm other than Lackey going into the 2014 season. Doubront could possibly be another since Buch is going to have that always injured tag applied to him for a little while after losing at least another half of a season again. Workman, Webster both have less than a half dozen starts and though several of us on this site love one, or maybe both of them (myself included) neither can, nor should be automatically slotted into the rotation of a rotation with the aspirations, or talent of a team as high as does Boston. This isn't the Astros here and Boston already has a vet like Dempster to cover who may be pulled anyway next year from being effective. 2014 will mark the end of Lester, Peavy and Dempster as members of the Red Sox, probably swingman Morales as well. The team *should* have time to ready Workman and Webster if they can become capable MLB SP, then see if Ranaudo will develop. Get more time to see if RDLR is better suited to become a late inning shut down guy and Britton a reliever. Thanks for putting up with this long post.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 13, 2013 0:16:26 GMT -5
Chris's point about the number of starters it realistically takes to get through a season is something that's been discussed on the board many times in the past. The reality is you can never, ever, have too much starting pitching. It's 162 games and arms get chewed up. Moreover, there are always options for moving talent. There's a market for a pitcher who's primary value is the ability to give you 6-7 innings a game, even if the run average is very inconsistent. Those guys have some value.
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