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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 10, 2013 14:58:29 GMT -5
I apologize in advance, but could someone explain to me how the service time works with Xander, as far as when the earliest they can call him up without losing a year of team control on him is? I heard that if they wait until next season, they can keep him for another year. Which would make sense.
I'm excited for WMB to come up. I am looking forward to a Garin/Xander/Pedroia/WMB infield pretty soon here, with WMB at first maybe?
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Post by kman22 on Aug 10, 2013 15:01:36 GMT -5
I apologize in advance, but could someone explain to me how the service time works with Xander, as far as when the earliest they can call him up without losing a year of team control on him is? I heard that if they wait until next season, they can keep him for another year. Which would make sense. I'm excited for WMB to come up. I am looking forward to a Garin/Xander/Pedroia/WMB infield pretty soon here, with WMB at first maybe? At this point, they would have to wait 20 days into next season to call up Xander in order to put off free agency for an additional year.
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Post by charliezink16 on Aug 10, 2013 15:22:43 GMT -5
I'm also a bit uneducated on the free agency topic, but I have a question for the board. If Xander is really as good as advertised, does the extra year of team control even matter? I mean, if they were to call him up now, he would hit free agency at age 27 as opposed to 28 (or 26/27, I don't know). As we've seen recently, star players don't hit free agency anymore, so if X turns into what everyone thinks, the chances of him even sniffing free agency are next to none. And wouldn't it be better if he were free agent eligible a year earlier? Good players that hit the market for the first time are generally 29-31 years of age and lock up contracts that cripple the franchise for the back part of the contract generally. So wouldn't X being eligible for a long term contract a year earlier ensue that Boston locks him up through his prime years? I know, I know, no need to even think down the road this far when you never know what could happen, but it's more of a hypothetical question to allow me to understand the process more thoroughly. Thanks dudes.
ADD: The argument for JBJ was different, simply because his ceiling is so much lower. It's much easier to imagine him being more replaceable when he's FA eligible, so the cost controller years are so much more important. But with X, if he turns into what the industry sees in his future, he should be in Boston for almost all of his career. Just look at Mike Trout; there's no way LAA foregoes locking him up at least a year before he's eligible for free agency, so the extra year seems meaningless to me.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 10, 2013 15:24:01 GMT -5
I'm all for WMB. And while the Dodger win offered a nice reprieve, last night was an opportunity lost to go up on Tampa by 3.5 games. Does anyone know the maximum amount of time someone can be down in the 15 day DL? Is there a limit? If not, I think Snyder's oblique is sore and he needs a DL stint.[/ Guidas. What are the numbers for the lottery tonight?
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 10, 2013 15:29:59 GMT -5
I want Xander but I have to say I am rooting for WMB also. It is hard to find power and he has it. I wish we could get both up here . I am greedy. I wish I knew the plans. Ben when you get a chance give me a buzz or text me.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 10, 2013 15:31:37 GMT -5
So assuming Drew leaves, that means we would have to go with a Brock Holt-esque player at short for at least half a month at the beginning of the season, just to delay him hitting Free agency, while also making it blatantly obvious to him thats what they're doing?
I like WMB at third for now, so I understand not calling Xander up this season.
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Post by bigpupp on Aug 10, 2013 15:35:41 GMT -5
All of this assumes that once Xander is called up he never gets sent back down:
Calling him up now - Free Agent after 2019.
Calling him up opening day - Free Agent after 2019
Calling him up after missing around 20 days next year - Free Agent after 2020 but he gets 4 years of arbitration.
Calling him up around the middle of the year - Free Agent after 2020 and only gets 3 years of arbitration.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2013 16:05:19 GMT -5
Xander is a Boras client but this team is clinging to first place. If they really think he can make an appreciable difference in their playoff chances they should call him up. If they really think he's a franchise player then offer him an 8 year deal next year. Buy out all his control years plus two. Boras has often talked about being more inclined toward extensions like that for players just entering the league, but once they have 2 years of service time he counsels them to got to FA. They would have to pay him some signficant money in Years 4-8 but would not be top of the market price right now, Tough for a kid to turn down 8 years at say $55-60M, esp if he knows at the end of the deal he'll be 29 and a free agent.
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Post by ikonos on Aug 10, 2013 16:14:19 GMT -5
At this point the most likely scenario for Xander is a September call up. Sox will make sure there is spot for him on the Post season roster if he performs well. Assuming he don't suck in spring training next year, he will start the season with the big club. If WMB sucks it up in the next few weeks then Xander will take over 3B. I am assuming he will get more reps at 3B in AAA now.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 10, 2013 16:30:31 GMT -5
At this point the most likely scenario for Xander is a September call up. Sox will make sure there is spot for him on the Post season roster if he performs well. Assuming he don't suck in spring training next year, he will start the season with the big club. If WMB sucks it up in the next few weeks then Xander will take over 3B. I am assuming he will get more reps at 3B in AAA now. What if WMB doesn't suck?
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Post by ikonos on Aug 10, 2013 17:17:38 GMT -5
At this point the most likely scenario for Xander is a September call up. Sox will make sure there is spot for him on the Post season roster if he performs well. Assuming he don't suck in spring training next year, he will start the season with the big club. If WMB sucks it up in the next few weeks then Xander will take over 3B. I am assuming he will get more reps at 3B in AAA now. What if WMB doesn't suck? If WMB does not suck the only other spot he can play is SS and unless Drew gets injured or hit below 0.200 the next month its unlikely Xander plays in Postseason.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,006
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Post by jimoh on Aug 10, 2013 17:47:31 GMT -5
What if WMB doesn't suck? If WMB does not suck the only other spot he can play is SS and unless Drew gets injured or hit below 0.200 the next month its unlikely Xander plays in Postseason. What about playing SS vs LHP? Or some LHP? Where Drew is a career .237 .295 .396 .691, and this year .200 .261 .360 .621?
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 10, 2013 18:06:29 GMT -5
I like the Middlebrooks move ( duh! ) but this looks to me like we will not see Xander until September for a short term call up, and then not see him again until they secure that extra year next Spring. It's possibly that Xander does extremely well in september and he makes the PO roster but considering that Middlebrooks does have significant mlb experience, he probably is the better option. It appears that they had this in mind several days ago potentially ( Xander back to playing SS recently ).
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Post by godot on Aug 10, 2013 18:12:48 GMT -5
Don't know what recalling Middlebrooks means. Do the Sox believe he is sufficiently addressing his issues and is as ready to go as he will be this year, and we may a as well find out now if he is ready? If not, then comes plan B, whatever ( or whoever) that many be. Or is it just a stop gap given the alternatives? Yeah, he is flawed and will not get much better, but gee he is still better than what we have. ( And at this stage of his development I don't believe they would risk putting X-man there now.)In others, was there hand forced?
Ben is a very methodical kind of guy, and suspect that he want to resolve the Middlebrooks and 3rd base situation first before they commit to anyone else there. Don't particularly believe this means Middlebrooks "is ready" or has solved his issues. But that is just a dumba$$ guess. Also can't see X-Man replacing Drew in the playoffs if we get there and Drew continue as is.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 10, 2013 18:16:16 GMT -5
Is Victorino eventually going to give up switch hitting altogether or is this just a phase?
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 10, 2013 18:19:24 GMT -5
Is Victorino eventually going to give up switch hitting altogether or is this just a phase? I've been wondering that myself. He seems to be playing it by feel right now. Batting right against some right handers and left vs others. Not sure what he's thinking.
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Post by preston on Aug 10, 2013 18:20:02 GMT -5
I'm also a bit uneducated on the free agency topic, but I have a question for the board. If Xander is really as good as advertised, does the extra year of team control even matter? I mean, if they were to call him up now, he would hit free agency at age 27 as opposed to 28 (or 26/27, I don't know). As we've seen recently, star players don't hit free agency anymore, so if X turns into what everyone thinks, the chances of him even sniffing free agency are next to none. And wouldn't it be better if he were free agent eligible a year earlier? Good players that hit the market for the first time are generally 29-31 years of age and lock up contracts that cripple the franchise for the back part of the contract generally. So wouldn't X being eligible for a long term contract a year earlier ensue that Boston locks him up through his prime years? I know, I know, no need to even think down the road this far when you never know what could happen, but it's more of a hypothetical question to allow me to understand the process more thoroughly. Thanks dudes. ADD: The argument for JBJ was different, simply because his ceiling is so much lower. It's much easier to imagine him being more replaceable when he's FA eligible, so the cost controller years are so much more important. But with X, if he turns into what the industry sees in his future, he should be in Boston for almost all of his career. Just look at Mike Trout; there's no way LAA foregoes locking him up at least a year before he's eligible for free agency, so the extra year seems meaningless to me. This is what I'm thinking. If Xander ends up being a very good to great player, does a year really make a difference? Especially when you consider the fact that the Red Sox will be a big market franchise for the foreseeable future. Anyway, I'm happy with the Middlebrooks call up. It's the next best thing, outside of Bogaerts.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 10, 2013 18:21:04 GMT -5
Honestly, if they don't plan on giving him a legit shot to be their 3B down the stretch, I'd rather they just hold him out the 20 days next year. They're not getting any free agent years in an extension, Boras knows what he has. Their only hope is that Xander ditches Boras so his brother Jair can be his agent.
Then again, if he really is as good as we all hope, I can't see the Red Sox letting him go, they would probably be willing to just blow him away and give him an open market deal on an extension before he gets to FA.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 10, 2013 18:25:16 GMT -5
Dodgers helped out the Sox by beating Tampa again.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 10, 2013 18:39:57 GMT -5
Is the Doubront who had trouble getting through 5 innings back? I hope not!
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 10, 2013 18:43:24 GMT -5
What's wrong with this guy? Pitch Felix , pitch!
I would still bring up Xander , he can go in a rotation with WMB at 3b and with Drew at SS. Drew hits .200 vs lefties. Xander is .333vs lefties.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 10, 2013 18:54:14 GMT -5
I don't know, ...do you think our #9 slot guy might have some pop? He's not your typical #9.
Maybe Middlebrooks was just better than what we had, nothing more in the analysis.
If he is a .240 hitter with average defense 20-25 HR pop that is not horrible, especially since he doesn't cost much.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 10, 2013 18:56:12 GMT -5
I don't necessarily disagree with bringing up Xander, but I'm pretty sick of seeing people compare one player's AAA numbers to another player's MLB numbers.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 10, 2013 19:06:06 GMT -5
Sooo... Morales is kinda stretched out right?
I'm putting the over/under on Doubront at 4.5 innings.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 10, 2013 19:17:43 GMT -5
Interesting call by Butterfield there, but I think I agree.
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