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8/19-8/21 Red Sox @ Giants Series Thread
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2013 0:52:11 GMT -5
Its a mix of bad managing and horrible and putird offense... OH FOR 10 with RISP today, with THREE FREEKING hits since the third.... we should have scored more runs then we did, and Taz has blown every 1 run lead he has been placed into (3-3 in blowing 1 run leads in the 8th)
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Post by station13 on Aug 21, 2013 0:58:14 GMT -5
Did Britton got sent down or something? and Farrell? What ya smoking these days?
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2013 0:59:21 GMT -5
Did Britton got sent down or something? and Farrell? What ya smoking these days? you dont remember the last time Britton came in with the bases loded?..... Also our BP is still shit, as the only people I trust are Koji... and maybe taz... everyone else is...
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Post by station13 on Aug 21, 2013 1:04:03 GMT -5
Did Britton got sent down or something? and Farrell? What ya smoking these days? you dont remember the last time Britton came in with the bases loded?..... Also our BP is still shit, as the only people I trust are Koji... and maybe taz... everyone else is... Britton to start the 9th, not Morales.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2013 1:04:49 GMT -5
you dont remember the last time Britton came in with the bases loded?..... Also our BP is still shit, as the only people I trust are Koji... and maybe taz... everyone else is... Britton to start the 9th, not Morales. ah
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 21, 2013 1:05:24 GMT -5
Koji would have been up 4th right? so I can "kind of" see why he didn't want to use him and then PH for him the next inning
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,015
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2013 1:06:45 GMT -5
Oh man. The merciless bashing of Farrell will begin when there was nothing his fault here. Morales all of a sudden lost it and only Villarel was ready. He didn't have time to warm anyone up. I have no problem with not bringing in your closer in a tie game on the road, even though sabermetrics says you ought to. That's an odd change in roles, and closers are human beings who like their routines. They are used to pitching when the game is on the line, and tie games on the road are not perceived as being higher-leverage situations that one-run leads, even though they are. But the thing you have to do, the obvious strategy that will not take the closer out of what he perceives as his role, is to start warming up your closer when a guy reaches base in the bottom of the ninth or later in a tie game, and bring him in when two runners get on. The game is going to be won or last right now, and everybody knows it; this is now time to f around with the last guy in the pen. I don't know how Cherington feels about proper bullpen management, but I know that Theo would have been all over the ass of any manager who did what Farrell just did. And of course Bill James has been writing for thirty years about the complete and utter idiocy of that kind of bullpen use. I love Farrell as a manager of players, but he's a subpar tactician, and this was him at his very worst.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 21, 2013 6:05:30 GMT -5
After Drew strikes out yes. Why the double switch? Seriously Farrell is pissing me off. At least we know that his "Drew needed a day off!" reasoning for starting Xander was BS. I think that's a good sign, it means they want Xander to play, not just "fill in", although I don't know if anyone ever actually believed that.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 21, 2013 6:21:47 GMT -5
Another Win pissed away. Now Tampa has two games in hand in the Loss column. This team went from a 4 game lead to a tie in 7 days by losing to substandard teams. Outstanding.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2013 7:50:44 GMT -5
Oh man. The merciless bashing of Farrell will begin when there was nothing his fault here. Morales all of a sudden lost it and only Villarel was ready. He didn't have time to warm anyone up. I have no problem with not bringing in your closer in a tie game on the road, even though sabermetrics says you ought to. That's an odd change in roles, and closers are human beings who like their routines. They are used to pitching when the game is on the line, and tie games on the road are not perceived as being higher-leverage situations that one-run leads, even though they are. But the thing you have to do, the obvious strategy that will not take the closer out of what he perceives as his role, is to start warming up your closer when a guy reaches base in the bottom of the ninth or later in a tie game, and bring him in when two runners get on. The game is going to be won or last right now, and everybody knows it; this is now time to f around with the last guy in the pen. I don't know how Cherington feels about proper bullpen management, but I know that Theo would have been all over the ass of any manager who did what Farrell just did. And of course Bill James has been writing for thirty years about the complete and utter idiocy of that kind of bullpen use. I love Farrell as a manager of players, but he's a subpar tactician, and this was him at his very worst. Really, what's the point of being a "manager of players" if you can't convince/explain to your closer that he should be pitching in a tie game on the road?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 21, 2013 8:11:31 GMT -5
Its a mix of bad managing and horrible and putird offense... OH FOR 10 with RISP today, with THREE FREEKING hits since the third.... we should have scored more runs then we did, and Taz has blown every 1 run lead he has been placed into (3-3 in blowing 1 run leads in the 8th) But there's no way this team can play .500 ball or less from here on in, right? Yesterday was another wasted loss. The Sox could have gone with Koji, althought that would have probably necessitated another double switch. Honestly it should have been Workman, but Farrell didn't want him to pitch 3 games in a row. Jeez, let me think about this. The Sox were up 7-0 the night before needing 2 outs. Why was Workman wasted then? Couldn't that have been a spot to test out the very wild Villareal instead of Workman? Farrell rendered Workman useless the following day, a day where they would have needed him. And of course the problem is the Sox are very thin in reliable relievers beyond Koji (lights out), Tazawa (coughing up too many 8th inning leads despite fine numbers), and Breslow. Beyond that it's a crapshoot. The kids have had their moments, but have been hit hard, too. De La Rosa, unfortunately, doesn't have the control needed to be reliable right now. They stashed away two veterans that they released in Lyon and Contreras because they didn't want to overpay in the trade market. Can't blame them for that. The most annoying this is the guy that would have been that lights out 8th inning guy was in the Sox bullpen - they got rid of him. Mark Melancon should have been that guy. I'm sure that's the one move from this past offseason that Ben wishes he had back. Melancon was awful last season, but improved as the season wore on, and his K/BB ratio has always been excellent. I understood the move, but I was leery about losing Melancon for Hanrahan, and that move has come back to bite them. I don't buy the "can't pitch in the AL East" stuff. This team was playing .600 ball for a long stretch, but they're not a .600 team. They peaked at 24 games above .500, and I think at best they'd wind up at 93-69. I think we're looking more realistically at 89-73 or 90-72 or 91-71. I don't think that will be enough to finish ahead of Tampa, who the Sox should have buried when they lost six in a row. Instead the Sox have blown a 4 game lead in a week while playing mediocre teams. I think they're going to be a wild card team. Don't see the Sox blowing a playoff spot. I think they have too much depth for that, and I don't think they're going to go into a freefall. Rather I think they'll be about .500 from here on out, and get stuck in the 1 game playoff against PEDs Bartolo Colon and the A's.
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Post by laluna on Aug 21, 2013 8:16:15 GMT -5
We lose a game in Houston, and it's all "If Xander was up here, he would've given us the offense needed to win." Now he's up, and gave us zero offense, and now everyone is on Farrell's back. You guys are precious. There's a reason not one of you guys are managers. In fact, there's more than one. Chillax with all your doomsday crap and enjoy baseball again! Remember... you must've enjoyed it at one point, and it wasn't all about your team going undefeated in every game they play.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 21, 2013 8:22:25 GMT -5
Losing three 1 run games to bad teams is so frustrating. At this point, I'd be happy with one of the wild card spots. Losing Buchholz for half the season has killed us.
The NL rules are dumb but still i'd expect more against vogelsong and co.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 21, 2013 8:43:34 GMT -5
The sky is falling! the sky is falling! the sky is falling!
Last time I checked, we're still in the playoffs and it looks like Buchholz is on his way back. I'm not worried, until we are actually out of the playoffs I'll remain optimistic.
There are some positive signs, Bogaerts is here and WMB is hitting. Guys like Ellsbury, Ortiz and Pedroia are slumping. You won't keep those guys down all season, it just won't happen. Tampa does scare me a little bit, but hopefully we can get our heads on straight by the time we face them. Yankees do not scare me at all. Alfonso Soriano is not going to hit .545 the rest of the season and AROD and Cano are not going to hit .400 and .500+ It just won't happen.
It's going to come down to a lot of A.L. EAST games and I'm comfortable with that. If we go on one Hot streak it will cancel the last two weeks out. All other teams in the AL east have gone on losing streaks as well and with a lot of AL EAST vs. AL EAST play coming up a lot can happen. I'd rather have these guys struggle at the plate now than when we face league competition.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 21, 2013 9:03:12 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Aug 21, 2013 9:46:56 GMT -5
That first inning was a killer, too. Bases chucked with a couple gifts, no outs and all they got was one run. Like the Toronto game where they just weren't stringing the hits together. Even though Carp got the SF, this team is just less without Ortiz in that line-up.
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Post by jmei on Aug 21, 2013 10:01:27 GMT -5
Look-- if the Red Sox got blown out last night, there would be a lot less complaining. It's just frustrating to lose a close game where the Sox had the lead for most of the night to an inferior opponent in no small part due to bad managing. It's just cathartic to vent on this thread instead of being annoyed when I go to bed.
That said, I think the fact that the "the Red Sox are not as good as their record" argument has prompted such angry responses is that deep down in our hearts, we all fear that it's true.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 21, 2013 10:20:07 GMT -5
Look-- if the Red Sox got blown out last night, there would be a lot less complaining. It's just frustrating to lose a close game where the Sox had the lead for most of the night to an inferior opponent in no small part due to bad managing. It's just cathartic to vent on this thread instead of being annoyed when I go to bed. That said, I think the fact that the "the Red Sox are not as good as their record" argument has prompted such angry responses is that deep down in our hearts, we all fear that it's true. I agree completely. Farrell has made some really dumb moves lately. He played Napoli way too much and now he is injured. Played Carp barely at all when he is an excellent hitter. Sat Nava a lot too. Uses Koji way too much with 4-5 run leads. Rarely takes advantage of Righty/Left (mis)matches. Doesn't rest players that clearly need it, like Pedroia and Victorino, and then gives rest to players that don't need it as much. Sticks with his starting pitchers way too long. The list goes on and on.
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Post by jmei on Aug 21, 2013 10:30:04 GMT -5
I pointed this out last night, but remember, Farrell is almost certainly going to win manager of the year as long as the Red Sox avoid another 2011 collapse, tactical errors and all.
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Post by tjb21 on Aug 21, 2013 10:31:00 GMT -5
Guys like Ellsbury, Ortiz and Pedroia are slumping. You won't keep those guys down all season, it just won't happen. Ortiz 1st Half: .317/.402/.606 Ortiz 2nd Half: .336/.409/.517 So he has a higher average and OBP in the second half, and lost .089 points in Slugging. Wouldn't call that a slump. The other two, yes. Pedroia much more severe than Jacoby, and he (Dustin) has basically lost all his power the last month and a half.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Aug 21, 2013 11:12:46 GMT -5
We lose a game in Houston, and it's all "If Xander was up here, he would've given us the offense needed to win." Now he's up, and gave us zero offense, and now everyone is on Farrell's back. You guys are precious. There's a reason not one of you guys are managers. In fact, there's more than one. Chillax with all your doomsday crap and enjoy baseball again! Remember... you must've enjoyed it at one point, and it wasn't all about your team going undefeated in every game they play. Yes yes Xander din't go 4/4 with 7 grand slams in his debut that's why everyone is pissed. All of them think they are actually for real a better manager than Farrell. This stuff really pisses me off. People are not mad at the result is the trend of bad tactical descisions that are costing an struggling offensive team. This road trip, I know there was a home series in between, has had 3-4 game hanging in the balance that Farrell has made questionable move which in turn cost the team those games. How dare anyone show any critical thinking, everything is going just fine today they'll score 50 runs and everything will be back to normal.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 21, 2013 11:20:06 GMT -5
Guys like Ellsbury, Ortiz and Pedroia are slumping. You won't keep those guys down all season, it just won't happen. Ortiz 1st Half: .317/.402/.606 Ortiz 2nd Half: .336/.409/.517 So he has a higher average and OBP in the second half, and lost .089 points in Slugging. Wouldn't call that a slump. The other two, yes. Pedroia much more severe than Jacoby, and he (Dustin) has basically lost all his power the last month and a half. Perhaps I looked at his stats too quickly. I was referencing a much SSS in which Ortiz is .238/.333/.476 which really isn't that much of a slump and it's a SSS, which effectively is my point. Ortiz has been solid all year, and all these guys have for the most part been solid all year and I'm not worried about there performance all year. When it's all said and done my concerns are the same today as they've been all year: late inning relief to get to and spell Koji.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Aug 21, 2013 11:31:54 GMT -5
Apparently Xander is not in the line-up. It's gonna be a fun ride with Farrell I can feel it.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2013 11:54:07 GMT -5
Against a lefty? Just on a fan level, that's really disappointing. Zito seems like the perfect kind of pitcher for Bogaerts to get some swings at.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 21, 2013 12:07:51 GMT -5
Against a lefty? Just on a fan level, that's really disappointing. Zito seems like the perfect kind of pitcher for Bogaerts to get some swings at. Isn't Drew hitting something like .190-.200 against lefties? Somehow in some universe this makes perfect sense...Then again it is Zito who has been destroyed in large this year. Which of course means he's going 7 strong with 10ks today.
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