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9/13-9/15 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 13, 2013 21:43:24 GMT -5
I agree, I guess. But he's only throwing 10 pitches per outing. Plus all the warmup pitches, but the larger point is that he wasn't needed there at all, so it was pointless risk (regardless of how small the risk was). He's now pitched on three of the last four days, and two of those appearances were with 4 run leads; if he's ineffective (or even hurt) for the playoffs I'm blaming it 100% on Farrell. And our bullpen never blows a 4 run lead, either.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 13, 2013 21:44:50 GMT -5
from the looks of things JBJ may be better served with some IL playoff at bats at this point. The more I see of him the more I like Ellsbury for 6/90 This. I'm not watching his results, I'm watching his at bats, his approach and how they are pitching him. He still can't cover the inner third of h plate and he's getting lost against breaking stuff away. Exactly how they pitched him in April an he hasn't adjusted. This ain't AAA. He may need more work down there. Defense looks fine.
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Post by mainesox on Sept 13, 2013 21:51:09 GMT -5
Plus all the warmup pitches, but the larger point is that he wasn't needed there at all, so it was pointless risk (regardless of how small the risk was). He's now pitched on three of the last four days, and two of those appearances were with 4 run leads; if he's ineffective (or even hurt) for the playoffs I'm blaming it 100% on Farrell. And our bullpen never blows a 4 run lead, either. So we should never use any relief pitcher other than Koji?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 13, 2013 21:51:22 GMT -5
from the looks of things JBJ may be better served with some IL playoff at bats at this point. The more I see of him the more I like Ellsbury for 6/90 This. I'm not watching his results, I'm watching his at bats, his approach and how they are pitching him. He still can't cover the inner third of h plate and he's getting lost against breaking stuff away. Exactly how they pitched him in April an he hasn't adjusted. This ain't AAA. He may need more work down there. Defense looks fine. Right-0 there. off speed of some kind that dives down and into him (whatever the pitcher has) and then follow it up with something low and away and he is chasing both. Not so sure a dose of Winter Ball couldn't fix that this off season after he and the Sox coaching staff go over videos showing him exactly what is going on. The book on JBJ will be out and around come ST, see how much improvement were made over the winter leagues by him. JBJ's a smart kid anyway and it's not like he's a WMB and continue to swing at everything 1' from the k zone until he's sent down anyway.
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Post by Gwell55 on Sept 13, 2013 21:51:56 GMT -5
So, HR records were set because of changes in technique? Ok. Babe Ruth got to play when the league was only white players. Where's the asterisk next to his name? And Hank Aaron was in the crosstops N black beauty area where is his asterisk.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 13, 2013 21:54:44 GMT -5
And our bullpen never blows a 4 run lead, either. So we should never use any relief pitcher other than Koji? Koji will get a ton of rest when we clinch. A d to be honest I would rather see his streak end (if it does) in the regular season rather then it ending in the postseason
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 13, 2013 21:54:51 GMT -5
Was thinking run Morales out there instead of breslow initially, then instead of Tazawa. Morales needs the work and hope Thornton is buried somewhere anyway.
Maybe they are saving Morales for game 2-3 of the NYY series and not ready to use him in back to back games yet since his return?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 13, 2013 21:56:58 GMT -5
Another thing about Uehara. If he looked gassed, like Tazawa did earlier, I would be right there with you that he needs a break but he looks more than fine.
The most reliable reliever had already been use what did you want Matt Thorthon facing Cano or Soriano with men on base?
Win the games think about the other stuff later.
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Post by mainesox on Sept 13, 2013 22:01:14 GMT -5
Another thing about Uehara. If he looked gassed, like Tazawa did earlier, I would be right there with you that he needs a break but he looks more than fine. The most reliable reliever had already been use what did you want Matt Thorthon facing Cano or Soriano with men on base? Win the games think about the other stuff later. Using Koji on a four run lead (twice in three days) in June would be foolish, doing it in the middle of September when you're 8.5 games up on the division is negligent.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 13, 2013 22:09:45 GMT -5
from the looks of things JBJ may be better served with some IL playoff at bats at this point. The more I see of him the more I like Ellsbury for 6/90 This. I'm not watching his results, I'm watching his at bats, his approach and how they are pitching him. He still can't cover the inner third of h plate and he's getting lost against breaking stuff away. Exactly how they pitched him in April an he hasn't adjusted. This ain't AAA. He may need more work down there. Defense looks fine. Disagree. He gashed one down the line on a hard inside pitch. He did strike out on a killer curve inside, though. Patience, please. BABIP will play out. I like the idea of giving him this time with the team even though he won't make the playoff roster.
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 13, 2013 22:12:27 GMT -5
Another thing about Uehara. If he looked gassed, like Tazawa did earlier, I would be right there with you that he needs a break but he looks more than fine. The most reliable reliever had already been use what did you want Matt Thorthon facing Cano or Soriano with men on base? Win the games think about the other stuff later. Using Koji on a four run lead (twice in three days) in June would be foolish, doing it in the middle of September when you're 8.5 games up on the division is negligent. Negligence is knowing you have a foot on a teams throat and let up instead. Koji can rest all he wants when the magic number is zero (and btw, it was Koji that wanted to come into the Yankee game last weekend and I'm sure he wanted tonight's game too).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 13, 2013 22:37:22 GMT -5
I personally would have preferred that Workman continued into the 8th and then piecemeal it with Morales and Tazawa to get thru the rest of the game. I don't want to see Koji warm up to get 3 outs with a 4 run lead. As bad as the pen has been, I'd think/hope they can get the last six outs without frittering away the lead, especially with the bottom of the order due.
Fortunately Koji pitches like he's double-parked. Good thing for him he doesn't get paid by the hour or else he'd go broke. What was it today? About 10 pitches? And about three minutes on the mound?
This guy is the bullpen. Definitely need to keep him sharp and rested for the post-season.
Today's game was a great win. Knock the Yankees down, win game number 90, and reduce the magic number to 7. Big blast by Salty after the Sox blew another big lead against the MFYs.
I say let Price face Darvish in the Wild Card playoff (although I wouldn't mind if Cleveland snuck in and bumped Tampa out of playoff spot. I wouldn't want the Sox to see those guys twice in 5 games.
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Post by mainesox on Sept 13, 2013 22:40:42 GMT -5
Using Koji on a four run lead (twice in three days) in June would be foolish, doing it in the middle of September when you're 8.5 games up on the division is negligent. Negligence is knowing you have a foot on a teams throat and let us instead. Koji can rest all he wants when the magic number is zero (and btw, it was Koji that wanted to come into the Yankee game last weekend and I'm sure he wanted tonight's game too). The manager is the one who makes the decision on who plays when, he could have told Koji no. It's not negligent to use someone who isn't your best pitcher in a four run game, particularly when your best pitcher is 38 years old and has been used a lot lately. Earlier this year they were concerned about him getting injured and weren't going to use him on back to back nights - that concern presumably hasn't just disappeared, but here they are using him three of the last four days when two of them could (should) have been days off for him. Now he's likely unavailable tomorrow (or should be), so we won't be able to use him even if we actually need him - it'll be fitting if we used him tonight in a game that Britton (or most anyone else) could have won, and then we lose tomorrow because he's not available.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 13, 2013 22:48:43 GMT -5
Negligence is knowing you have a foot on a teams throat and let us instead. Koji can rest all he wants when the magic number is zero (and btw, it was Koji that wanted to come into the Yankee game last weekend and I'm sure he wanted tonight's game too). The manager is the one who makes the decision on who plays when, he could have told Koji no. It's not negligent to use someone who isn't your best pitcher in a four run game, particularly when your best pitcher is 38 years old and has been used a lot lately. Earlier this year they were concerned about him getting injured and weren't going to use him on back to back nights - that concern presumably hasn't just disappeared, but here they are using him three of the last four days when two of them could (should) have been days off for him. Now he's likely unavailable tomorrow (or should be), so we won't be able to use him even if we actually need him - it'll be fitting if we used him tonight in a game that Britton (or most anyone else) could have won, and then we lose tomorrow because he's not available. Like many of us have said here. Once we clinch a playoff spot he will get rest.
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Post by mainesox on Sept 13, 2013 23:00:58 GMT -5
The manager is the one who makes the decision on who plays when, he could have told Koji no. It's not negligent to use someone who isn't your best pitcher in a four run game, particularly when your best pitcher is 38 years old and has been used a lot lately. Earlier this year they were concerned about him getting injured and weren't going to use him on back to back nights - that concern presumably hasn't just disappeared, but here they are using him three of the last four days when two of them could (should) have been days off for him. Now he's likely unavailable tomorrow (or should be), so we won't be able to use him even if we actually need him - it'll be fitting if we used him tonight in a game that Britton (or most anyone else) could have won, and then we lose tomorrow because he's not available. Like many of us have said here. Once we clinch a playoff spot he will get rest. That's not the point, using him today would have been a bad move in June, there's not point to use him today when you've got plenty of other capable relievers, and if you overuse him now it's not going to matter how much he rests later.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 13, 2013 23:03:44 GMT -5
Trolling.
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 13, 2013 23:10:45 GMT -5
Like many of us have said here. Once we clinch a playoff spot he will get rest. That's not the point, using him today would have been a bad move in June, there's not point to use him today when you've got plenty of other capable relievers, and if you overuse him now it's not going to matter how much he rests later. I'll stop commenting after this, but I think you're completely wrong. The point is to win games. That's it. If you start Morales or RDLR and they end up walking a few guys then you will end up using Uehara in a more stressful game instead of the easy 10 pitch inning that he got. Sure he might be unavailable tomorrow, but tomorrow can worry about itself. We needed to close out a game tonight, and with the amount of crappy innings our bullpen has given us recently I would MUCH rather get the division in the bag now and worry about restin the pen later on. If Uehara gets hurt then Farrell and I will both be wrong, but he's much less likely to get hurt throwing 10 pitches in a stress free inning then one where he has to get someone out of a jam.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,935
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 14, 2013 0:08:47 GMT -5
Uehara is now 4 batters from Bobby Jenks' record of 41 consecutive batters retired in relief (2007, 7/17 to 8/20), and 8 from Mark Buerhle's record of 45 (2009, 7/18 to 7/28).
Other longer streaks: Harvey Haddix, 38 in 1959 (5/21 to 5/26), Davis Wells, 38 in 1998 (5/12 to 5/23), Randy Johnson, 39 in 2004 (also 5/12 to 5/23), Tom Browning, 40 in 1988 (9/11 to 9/21), Jim Barr, 41 in 1972 (8/23 to 8/29).
A comparison so far:
Jenks: 14 G, 14 IP over 25 days. 11 K, 2 PU, 16 GB, 10 OF-FB, 2 LD. 146 pitches, 97 strikes (66%; 9 swinging, 28 looking, 30 fouls, 30 in play). 1-0, 8 saves (also pitched with 4 run lead, in tie, and trailing by 6 and 7 runs).The streak started after he blew a save by allowing a single and HR to his first two batters faced. 2 inherited runners, 1 SB allowed. The extra out was a game-ending LDP that erased an inherited runner.
Uehara: 12 G, 12.1 IP over 24 days. 17 K, 7 PU, 9 GB, 4 OF-FB, 0 LD. 143 pitches, 118 strikes (83%; 40 swinging, 22 looking, 36 fouls, 20 in play). 1-0, 7 saves (also pitched with leads of 11, 4, and 4 runs). Streak started after he gave up a 2-out 2B with a 5-run lead. 3 inherited runners, none of whom advanced.
Buehrle: 9 K, 4 PU, 22 GB, 8 OF-FB, 2 LD. Last batter he faced, a perfect game, 5 2/3 perfect innings before losing it completely. Barr: 5 K, 5 PU, 17 GB, 12 OF-FB, 2 LD. He got the last 21 batters of one start and the first 20 of the next. Browning: 12 K, 2 PU, 13 GB, 12 OF-FB, 1 LD. He got the last 11 men before his perfect game of 9/16 and the first 2 of his next start. Johnson: 15 K, 1 PU, 9 GB, 13 OF-FB, 1 LD. Sandwiched his 5/18 perfect game with last 6 and first 6. Wells: 16 K, 6 PU, 9 GB, 7 OF-FB, 0 LD. Last 10 men before his perfecto on 5/18, got Darren Lewis in Fenway, but Darren Bragg broke it up. Haddix: 8 K, 2 PU, 14 GB, 13 OF-FB, 3 LD. I think you've figured out where the 38 must come from.
So Uehara has the most K and the most popups and (tied with Wells) the fewest line drives, leading to a big edge in fewest balls hit out of the infield. Compiling pitch data for the more recent streaks is too labor-intensive, but one doubts that anyone has anything like his 40 to 25 ratio of swinging strikes to balls, since the MLB average is 7 swinging strikes per 25 balls.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 14, 2013 0:10:47 GMT -5
I'll just say that the magic number is down to 7, the same numbers left until I get my copy of GTA V (pre-ordered, I live in Brazil, mind you). Coincidence? I think not.
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Post by templeusox on Sept 14, 2013 0:19:11 GMT -5
I'll just say that the magic number is down to 7, the same numbers left until I get my copy of GTA V (pre-ordered, I live in Brazil, mind you). Coincidence? I think not. Hopefully this Red Sox team doesn't disappoint as much as every R* game since Bully.
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Post by jmei on Sept 14, 2013 0:45:19 GMT -5
from the looks of things JBJ may be better served with some IL playoff at bats at this point. The more I see of him the more I like Ellsbury for 6/90 This. I'm not watching his results, I'm watching his at bats, his approach and how they are pitching him. He still can't cover the inner third of h plate and he's getting lost against breaking stuff away. Exactly how they pitched him in April an he hasn't adjusted. This ain't AAA. He may need more work down there. Defense looks fine. I'm not sure how much he has to learn in AAA. Pitchers in the minors are much less likely to have the advanced scouting info, command, and repertoire it takes to exploit Bradley's weaknesses. These ABs provide crucial experience for Bradley, but if Ellsbury walks (and you're crazy to think that 6/$90 is going to be enough), you're going to have to sink or swim with Bradley in the major leagues next year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 14, 2013 0:46:30 GMT -5
I'll just say that the magic number is down to 7, the same numbers left until I get my copy of GTA V (pre-ordered, I live in Brazil, mind you). Coincidence? I think not. Hopefully this Red Sox team doesn't disappoint as much as every R* game since Bully. But The Warriors was a much better game than Bully.
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Post by jmei on Sept 14, 2013 0:47:07 GMT -5
But yeah, Bradley's biggest problem in the majors so far is controlling the strikeouts. He's going to have a tough time providing value if he Ks 25%+ of the game.
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Post by templeusox on Sept 14, 2013 0:52:16 GMT -5
Hopefully this Red Sox team doesn't disappoint as much as every R* game since Bully. But The Warriors was a much better game than Bully.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 14, 2013 1:03:48 GMT -5
But The Warriors was a much better game than Bully. Total bro.
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