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9/17-9/19 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by nationinthesouth on Sept 18, 2013 22:36:20 GMT -5
As much as it may anger people, Drew is going against lefties or righties in the playoffs. Better to keep getting at bats now when these games dont really matter at this point. I agree this will happen by why SHOULD it happen? I would think the Sox would choose Bogaerts on the post-season roster over McDonald so he'd be available to hit lefties and I don't think he'd be an automatic out against righties, so the Bogaerts option would still be there. According to Eck anyways during the broadcast one of the Salty "double steals" over the past few days was due to a missed sign by Xander and only a missed tag or call saved them. This factors in regardless of if a prospect board likes it or not when they decide playoff rosters and playing time.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 18, 2013 22:37:06 GMT -5
Over react much?
The red sox are not going to hit into 4 double plays every night.
Morales gave up 3 ground balls that snuck up the middle, how often does that happen.
You win some you lose some, end of story.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 18, 2013 22:37:19 GMT -5
So much for this game. The Red Sox bullpen depth is atrocious. There's Koji, Breslow, and sometimes Tawaza. That's about it. Everybody else is a major question mark. That ones not on the pen dude. They held the O's scoreless for a while. This one's on Farrell. M No this is NOT on JF. How about 4 gidp. How about bases loaded zero outs and no runs. OH and how about 15 hits, 3 runs?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 18, 2013 22:43:32 GMT -5
That ones not on the pen dude. They held the O's scoreless for a while. This one's on Farrell. Not on Farrell either. 15 hits, 3 runs? Pathetic. Players lost this one themselves. While Farrell could have done better, he hardly cost us the game. Theres a reason we've been losing all these 1 run, close games recently. At this point, start moving runners over or stealing when you have fast base runners. We've had 7 double plays in the last 2 days and it would've been 8 if the O's didn't miss that throw on Pedroia there. That and refusing to pinch hit for guys with awful splits are just head scratchers. The bullpen gave us some solid innings tonight. They're not perfect, and that "hit" Davis had was a routine grounder, Pedroia was just out of position on that one for some odd reason. They're bullpen guys for a reason. Yeah, some of it was the players, but not many managers would've left Drew in there with the game n the line like that against a left. Showalter has been out-coaching the hell out of Farrell.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,824
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 18, 2013 23:06:02 GMT -5
Whoa, are people really freaking out over this game?
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Post by bluechip on Sept 18, 2013 23:08:21 GMT -5
Watch Ken Burn's Baseball (which you should do for its own sake) and look at how many people were in the stands for games in the 1950s and 1960s. You'll see many empty seats. BTW, TV Ratings are down for most sports. Mostly, it has to do with the increased number of alternative options available on TV. 40 years ago, when the World Series Ratings spiked, there really was not much else on TV. Now, there are tons of cable options, not to mention on demand, Netflix, apple TV, HBOgo, ect... Thanks for a thoughtful reply. Some good points. Baseball has always had it's ups and downs but it was by far the most popular sport in the 50's and 60's. I mentioned the decline was do to many things. TV choices are many now. But the population has also doubled since the decades you mentioned. So maybe % of people is a better way to look at it. Football, pro and college kill baseball in ratings. Basketball beats baseball head to head most of the time. Soccer is being played by more kids than baseball. TV ratings still lag but are growing not declining. Heck, golf beats Saturday baseball on fox most weeks in the ratings. The NFL obviously beats baseball. It's an event. But the World Series actually often has higher ratings than the NBA finals. Which is really the only fair comparison. Not always, and it clearly depends on other factors (such as the number of games), but I wouldn't say that the NBA kills MLB.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 18, 2013 23:08:46 GMT -5
Drew was 0/5 with 5 SO against McFarland prior to today. At least he made contact thats an improvement.
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 18, 2013 23:09:53 GMT -5
Not on Farrell either. 15 hits, 3 runs? Pathetic. Players lost this one themselves. While Farrell could have done better, he hardly cost us the game. Theres a reason we've been losing all these 1 run, close games recently. I don't know what team you have been watching, but we haven't been losing much at all recently.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 18, 2013 23:38:24 GMT -5
Theres a reason we've been losing all these 1 run, close games recently. I don't know what team you have been watching, but we haven't been losing much at all recently. He's referring to the four games they've lost in their last nine. Three were by one run, and tonight was by two. Of course they won the other five, so most people would be ok with the fact that they've won 5 of their last 8, 10 of their last 14, 13 of their last 18, etc. etc. Other people are annoying, incorrigible, infuriating pessimists who need something to complain about even when the team has the best f-ing record in baseball seriously I don't get it at all.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 19, 2013 0:03:11 GMT -5
I agree this will happen by why SHOULD it happen? I would think the Sox would choose Bogaerts on the post-season roster over McDonald so he'd be available to hit lefties and I don't think he'd be an automatic out against righties, so the Bogaerts option would still be there. According to Eck anyways during the broadcast one of the Salty "double steals" over the past few days was due to a missed sign by Xander and only a missed tag or call saved them. This factors in regardless of if a prospect board likes it or not when they decide playoff rosters and playing time. It wasn't a missed sign, nor did Eck say it was; he just identified it (a day late) as an attempted hit-and-run rather than an intended double steal. Because the hit and run was on, Xander was forced to swing at an unhittable pitch low and outside. In fact, I thought at the time that it was an obvious hit and run, and whoever scored the game for BIS identified it as such.
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Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2013 0:21:00 GMT -5
I don't know what team you have been watching, but we haven't been losing much at all recently. He's referring to the four games they've lost in their last nine. Three were by one run, and tonight was by two. Of course they won the other five, so most people would be ok with the fact that they've won 5 of their last 8, 10 of their last 14, 13 of their last 18, etc. etc. Other people are annoying, incorrigible, infuriating pessimists who need something to complain about even when the team has the best f-ing record in baseball seriously I don't get it at all. Stole the words right out of my mouth. Lose two (mostly meaningless) games by three runs because the Red Sox hit into a bunch of double plays and suddenly the Red Sox can't win close games and need to sacrifice bunt more. I know being a fan means you overreact and analyze every bit of minutia, but this is really too much. That said, like I mentioned in the last game thread, John Farrell had better be seriously considering using Xander as either a pinch-hitter or a starter against lefties in the playoffs. This is just about as no-brainer as it gets, and maybe he doesn't want to do it too much in the regular season (because of Drew's confidence or whatever), but it needs to be done when the season is on the line.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 19, 2013 0:24:00 GMT -5
It's tough to win a close game when you hit .395 / .395 / .579 except for your 10 highest-leverage PA, where you go 0-8, SH, IBB, 2 GDP. Or when you hit .167 / .333 / .500 in your 15 lowest-leverage PA and go 1-17, 3 BB, 3 GDP in the other 20, which is what happened the night before.
And it's awfully dispiriting to fans when this sort of thing happens, which I believe is what some people are reacting to. Fortunately, these things are neither predictive in theory, nor has this team shown any tendency to start pressing when luck turns against them this way.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 19, 2013 1:10:23 GMT -5
How funny. Not intentionally picking on you here Bluechip, but I hear this quite often from others and even my son about this time every year.
Baseball has it's problems, but I grew away from football when the 1st major controversy hit.. The Dexter Manley graduation from a major college (Oklahoma) when he couldn't even read, nor write. The sport covered it up because he could play a sport for years.
No different now. The NFL covers up gang related members and we have seen events of players with weapons (usage even) for no reason whatsoever and members remaining quiet, except to support them and NONE condemning that behavior that is tearing the sport apart even further.
I myself what will happen when/if that wretched lifestyle creeps into baseball if I will still enjoy the sport. Already a few players are twisting their caps sideways as a sign of disrespect to the game and some "honor" to something that has no meaning to anything useful. By that I mean Rodney and even Drake Britton of our Sox.
Maybe the powers that be (Selig and co) can grow a spine and confront this head on (with the help of the union) and point to the ills of crime that has hit the NFL and attack it. PED's hit MLB bad enough. MLB doesn't need animal abusers, players coming out as saying they are gang members, possible murder trial and several gun convictions to tarnish it's image.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Sept 19, 2013 5:25:22 GMT -5
I honestly can't wait until Stephen Drew is gone after this year. I am sick of him hitting against lefties when Xander is rotting away on the bench.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 19, 2013 7:52:16 GMT -5
I don't know what team you have been watching, but we haven't been losing much at all recently. He's referring to the four games they've lost in their last nine. Three were by one run, and tonight was by two. Of course they won the other five, so most people would be ok with the fact that they've won 5 of their last 8, 10 of their last 14, 13 of their last 18, etc. etc. Other people are annoying, incorrigible, infuriating pessimists who need something to complain about even when the team has the best f-ing record in baseball seriously I don't get it at all. First, I don't know if we can impute tone from a lot of the comments. I always imagine these exchanges to take place more with smirking than hair-pulling or screaming but maybe that's just me. I think in any game that was in hand or filled with lost opportunities there's always some frustration. There's also a bit of a foreshadowing that can add to the angst. For example, all season we've seen in a preponderance of games from the 7th inning on that were tied or 1 run games, that John Farrell has stuck with certain guys despite the match-up. In a 162 game season that is sensible. But as we grow closer to the playoffs, there certainly is a lingering - and I think legitimate - question of, "Is this how he'll manage in a playoff game where every play, every out can be magnified?" I have to believe some of that was oozing through last night, as well as the fact that the Orioles have ragdolled the Red Sox since 2011.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 19, 2013 8:10:06 GMT -5
I don't know what team you have been watching, but we haven't been losing much at all recently. He's referring to the four games they've lost in their last nine. Three were by one run, and tonight was by two. Of course they won the other five, so most people would be ok with the fact that they've won 5 of their last 8, 10 of their last 14, 13 of their last 18, etc. etc. Other people are annoying, incorrigible, infuriating pessimists who need something to complain about even when the team has the best f-ing record in baseball seriously I don't get it at all. You don't get how people might be frustrated that Farrell has consistently thrown out Drew against lefties when we have a guy who mashes against lefties sitting on the bench and an expanded roster to boot? That, and part of the reason we've had some of these double plays is the lack of stealing fast base runners or moving guys over. Yeah, we'll still clinch the division but the #1 seed hasn't been locked up yet. Refusing to pinch hit for guys with awful splits won't cut it in the playoffs. The few times Farrelll has decided to pinch hit, its worked out pretty damn well. Multiple pinch hit home runs and game winning hits. I have no problem with the bullpen management but its just so stupid how he starts Drew against these lefties and he just looks completely lost out there. Yeah, they've won a lot recently but the point was that Farrell needs to step up his in-game managing in these close games.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 19, 2013 9:14:10 GMT -5
Just stopping by the gameday thread with the thought that some people might be losing it and sure enough the same usual suspects are barely treading water in a pool of tears.
Guys, I can't say that I disagree with the whole Stephen Drew vs. lefties dilemma, but this has been happening since Bogaerts was called up. Honestly, I don't think it's going to change once the playoffs begin. I think Farrell views Drew as his starting shortstop and I think you're going to see him start vs LHP (or at least >50% of at bats) in the playoffs. I don't love this, but its time to stop the same tired complaints. Deal with it. You're derailing what should be a fun thread to read given the unexpected success of the sox this season.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 19, 2013 9:17:39 GMT -5
Just stopping by the gameday thread with the thought that some people might be losing it and sure enough the same usual suspects are barely treading water in a pool of tears. Guys, I can't say that I disagree with the whole Stephen Drew vs. lefties dilemma, but this has been happening since Bogaerts was called up. Honestly, I don't think it's going to change once the playoffs begin. I think Farrell views Drew as his starting shortstop and I think you're going to see him start vs LHP (or at least >50% of at bats) in the playoffs. I don't love this, but its time to stop the same tired complaints. Deal with it. You're derailing what should be a fun thread to read given the unexpected success of the sox this season. Fantastic post, this should be on the top of every gameday thread page.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 19, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -5
Just stopping by the gameday thread with the thought that some people might be losing it and sure enough the same usual suspects are barely treading water in a pool of tears. Guys, I can't say that I disagree with the whole Stephen Drew vs. lefties dilemma, but this has been happening since Bogaerts was called up. Honestly, I don't think it's going to change once the playoffs begin. I think Farrell views Drew as his starting shortstop and I think you're going to see him start vs LHP (or at least >50% of at bats) in the playoffs. I don't love this, but its time to stop the same tired complaints. Deal with it. You're derailing what should be a fun thread to read given the unexpected success of the sox this season. Lol Seriously people. So we should only talk about the success not an obvious liability the Red Sox have heading into the playoffs. What's wrong with making that point even when it has been made a gazillion times? There is nothing wrong with being critical about it. I don't even care if its Bogaerts. I sure as heck know there are better options on the bench against a tough lefty late in the game at home to potentially end the game than Drew. And guess what if it happens in the playoffs prepare to hear about it.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 19, 2013 10:24:18 GMT -5
Just stopping by the gameday thread with the thought that some people might be losing it and sure enough the same usual suspects are barely treading water in a pool of tears. Guys, I can't say that I disagree with the whole Stephen Drew vs. lefties dilemma, but this has been happening since Bogaerts was called up. Honestly, I don't think it's going to change once the playoffs begin. I think Farrell views Drew as his starting shortstop and I think you're going to see him start vs LHP (or at least >50% of at bats) in the playoffs. I don't love this, but its time to stop the same tired complaints. Deal with it. You're derailing what should be a fun thread to read given the unexpected success of the sox this season. I agree with this in the mean except for the highlighted part. Most managers manage one way in a 162 game season and slightly differently in the playoffs. For example, Francona got tighter with the pen, had reliable guys go longer etc. One would expect this manager to do so, as well (though it's not guaranteed) and I think some here have the expectation that he might start doing so now since he's trying a few other options to see how players respond. That, and what is it to be a Red Sox fan (or a true fan of any team) if you're not frustrated by bases loaded no outs and no runs scored (two nights in a row no less, and both times having the starter teetering on coming out)? And what fan of ANY team doesn't flame the manager/coach when they do something repeatedly that has repeated shown itself to be ineffective. I mean make a mistake once, ok. Make a mistake 187 times and counting, well, people who care will notice. It's a gameday thread. It's a vent when things go wrong. In a way there's a tremendous existential beauty to the whole thing. That's gotta have value, right? That and typing it out here instead of dropping F-bombs so loud you can't even hear your neighbors swearing over the exact same play.
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 19, 2013 12:13:29 GMT -5
Just stopping by the gameday thread with the thought that some people might be losing it and sure enough the same usual suspects are barely treading water in a pool of tears. Guys, I can't say that I disagree with the whole Stephen Drew vs. lefties dilemma, but this has been happening since Bogaerts was called up. Honestly, I don't think it's going to change once the playoffs begin. I think Farrell views Drew as his starting shortstop and I think you're going to see him start vs LHP (or at least >50% of at bats) in the playoffs. I don't love this, but its time to stop the same tired complaints. Deal with it. You're derailing what should be a fun thread to read given the unexpected success of the sox this season. Lol Seriously people. So we should only talk about the success not an obvious liability the Red Sox have heading into the playoffs. What's wrong with making that point even when it has been made a gazillion times? There is nothing wrong with being critical about it. I don't even care if its Bogaerts. I sure as heck know there are better options on the bench against a tough lefty late in the game at home to potentially end the game than Drew. And guess what if it happens in the playoffs prepare to hear about it. Because it's annoying and pointless if it's constantly being brought up and nothings changed. We know where Farrell stands on the issue, and we also know that's he's wrong. So, until something changes, clogging the thread with straight bitching about it and not adding any other substance to the post is just a nuisance. It has nothing to do with trying to only talk about success and not liabilities, so I wouldn't try to generalize the X/Drew case as doing such. It's probably a lot more engaging when we discuss and argue about liabilities on here, typically, but this isn't about that. It's about how the complaints are being posted constantly in these threads without any new noteworthy comments being brought to the table. Also, if it couldn't be anymore clear, this is on Farrell, not Drew. Drew's been a truly remarkable shortstop against righties, so it gets under my skin a bit when people rip on him whenever they see him in a lineup vs. a lefty. Yes, it's a terrible decision, and I don't think you can keep backing it up with defense or "he knows the plays," but it's not his fault.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 19, 2013 12:42:31 GMT -5
Over all the pinch hitting discussion, let's not neglect Franklin "wild and inconsistent" Morales in for 2 innings of bonus baseball with noone warming behind him in the pen! Seriously, after he let the first two reach in the twelth I was thinking "get him the fuck out of there NOW!" ... and then a WP and IBB later, NESN cuts away to the Sox Bullpen, with Matt Thornton (!!) just starting to throw his first warmup pitch.
The problem here IMHO is Farrell's reluctance to commit to any sort of postseason-related strategy. I would have wanted to see Doubront up in the 11th inning. Perfect way to test whether he is capable of it and deserves a spot on the playoff roster, dontcha think?
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 19, 2013 12:48:20 GMT -5
Over all the pinch hitting discussion, let's not neglect Franklin "wild and inconsistent" Morales in for 2 innings of bonus baseball with noone warming behind him in the pen! Seriously, after he let the first two reach in the twelth I was thinking "get him the fuck out of there NOW!" ... and then a WP and IBB later, NESN cuts away to the Sox Bullpen, with Matt Thornton (!!) just starting to throw his first warmup pitch. The problem here IMHO is Farrell's reluctance to commit to any sort of postseason-related strategy. I would have wanted to see Doubront up in the 11th inning. Perfect way to test whether he is capable of it and deserves a spot on the playoff roster, dontcha think? I don't know, man. Doubront has said he doesn't feel comfortable warming in the bullpen, even if part of that is him trying to resist leaving the rotation. The O's squared up on two hits up the middle last night against Franklin, but overall I thought he looked pretty good. That hit by Davis was just luck getting out of the infield, nothing on Franklin. If he's able to stay around the strike zone, I'd take him any day over Thornton and Doubront.
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Post by mgoetze on Sept 19, 2013 12:50:28 GMT -5
I am not opposed to using Morales in general. I am just opposed to using him without a backup plan in place in case he goes on one of his sudden flings of wildness.
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 19, 2013 12:56:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I feel you there. Thornton should have certainly been getting ready a lot sooner, considering Franklin was going for his second inning. Webster? Rubby?
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