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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 17, 2013 23:08:56 GMT -5
HUMONGOUS test coming up. Need one of Buch or Lackey to step up big time. This is far from over.
Great, great series thus far. Refreshing to be facing a good Tigers team, who have a coach who makes questionable moves but isn't hailed as the best manager ever for whatever goofy reason.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 17, 2013 23:09:24 GMT -5
Two things: At Fenway especially Victorino's defense is crucial, and honestly so is Drew's defense, so even if they are both totally lost at the plate, they contribute something important, so I'd still keep them in the lineup.
And the funny thing is - as much as I didn't want to see Koji have to get five outs, it's because of my faith in Breslow, who has been wonderful. Normally I'd be screaming to go to Koji, but Breslow has earned trust and kudos.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 17, 2013 23:10:02 GMT -5
Get Drew out of the line up. He needs a day off. 1-17 this series. I had that in my initial lineup, but Scherzer has pretty sizable splits both this year and over his career. Plus, Drew's defense will come in handy with a groundball(-ish) pitcher like Buchholz on the mound. I'll take your word for it. My heart was pounding ever since it was 4-2 and Cabrera at the plate. Its going to be tough but honestly we're in a great position to win. Three one run wins is pretty unbelievable in my opinion. Verlander and Scherzer are very good but you have to like the chances considering the Sox record at home.
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 17, 2013 23:10:12 GMT -5
If you're gonna bench Nava for no reason other than Gomes' intangibles, maybe we should consider giving Victorino a day? His defense is immensely valuable, but if he keeps getting tough breaking stuff, he's going to keep burying us. Considering Pedroia's significant struggles as well, we could use a boost behind Ellsbury. But even better: Maybe just start playing Nava over Gomes against RHP's like you're supposed to. I think his defense is too valuable, especially since they've been pitching Cabrera away all series. I would prefer to see him dropped in the order-- something like: Ellsbury Nava Pedroia Ortiz Napoli Saltalamacchia Victorino Drew Bogaerts I like that, but would rearrange. I know it's been done a decent amount this season, but Salty batting 6th in a huge game is unacceptable to me, even with some success against him in 12 at-bats (5 for 12). Even if it's more realistic considering Farrell, I'd prefer: CF Ellsbury LF Nava 2B Pedroia DH Ortiz 1B Napoli 3B Bogaerts C Salty RF Victorino SS Drew Victorino isn't going to show anywhere near the power or discipline Bogaerts will against a lethal righty. Salty above Victorino to protect against string of weakness vs. LHP's. Start Drew over WMB because of the defense and plate discipline. WMB can pinch-hit for him late in a game to protect against Drew-Ellsbury back-to-back, although I'm not sure how much that will help against Smyly. Still, strongly doubt Farrell does this. We'll likely see Nava batting 6th, with Victorino in his customary 2-spot.
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Post by burythehammer on Oct 17, 2013 23:16:56 GMT -5
Why didn't Berry pinch run instead of WMB? Can someone explain this to me?
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Post by jmei on Oct 17, 2013 23:17:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I was trying to put together a roster I think Farrell would actually put out there. I doubt he hits Drew ninth (or Victorino or Saltalamacchia, for that matter), for instance, and he probably isn't hitting Xander above multiple veterans. But yeah, I think that's the ideal lineup.
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 17, 2013 23:21:21 GMT -5
Why didn't Berry pinch run instead of WMB? Can someone explain this to me? To me, it made most sense to just leave Bogaerts in there. Not wanting to burn Berry makes some sense when the plan is for Ross to immediately bunt the runner. Farrell pinch-ran Bogaerts for WMB against Tampa, which seemed like a very marginal upgrade. Today was the reverse of that, but since there's not that big of a difference in their speed, it was just more perplexing than anything else. Middlebrooks is a more experienced MLB baserunner?
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dd
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Post by dd on Oct 17, 2013 23:26:26 GMT -5
Why didn't Berry pinch run instead of WMB? Can someone explain this to me? Middlebrooks is a more experienced MLB baserunner? That may have been the reason given X's base running error earlier.
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Post by jmei on Oct 17, 2013 23:27:19 GMT -5
Why didn't Berry pinch run instead of WMB? Can someone explain this to me? forum.soxprospects.com/post/49584/threadFarrell said some variation on this in the post-game presser (minus the part about wanting to save Berry, I think).
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Post by soxfanatic on Oct 17, 2013 23:33:51 GMT -5
My line up for Saturday:
Ellsbury Nava Pedroia Ortiz Napoli Bogaerts Victorino Saltalamacchia Middlebrooks
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Post by wskeleton76 on Oct 17, 2013 23:34:49 GMT -5
Victorino is the worst.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 18, 2013 0:03:06 GMT -5
Nava career OPS (PA) by batting order position:
1: 711 (170) 2: 720 (218) 5: 918 (109) 6: 909 (273)
It's not an artifact from hitting 5th and 6th more this year; he's had a split like this every year. He's also a career 748 with bases empty and 821 with runners on.
So if Victorino is to be moved down (and I like that idea), you want:
Ellsbury Pedroia Ortiz Napoli Nava Victorino Saltalamacchia Bogaerts Drew
This has the further advantages of moving Pedey and Papi into spots they've had a lot of success in, and maybe stealing an extra PA for Napoli, the guy who is our biggest threat right now. And, obviously, the only B2B LHB are Drew and Ellsbury, and if they bring in Coke or Smyly to pitch to Drew, they get Gomes or Middlebrooks.
Dropping Victorino just to 6 might help him snap out of his funk by taking some pressure off him while still leaving him in a reasonably important spot; dropping him all the way to 8 seems, to me, like too much of an insult to him. The difference between him and Xander 6 and 8 is not worth risking that.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 18, 2013 0:04:19 GMT -5
So, Xander Bogaerts has helped this team win every time he's been put on the field.
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Post by Gwell55 on Oct 18, 2013 0:49:29 GMT -5
Is there any reason to think this is the case? He didn't work last night and the Red Sox have a day off tomorrow. Unless he gives up a baserunner, he'll probably throw less than twenty pitches or so. Uehara did pitch a career-high in innings (as a reliever) this season but he's looked just as effective as he was during that hidden perfect game stretch. I understand the theory, but when the Red Sox are two wins from the World Series, I'm going with the demonstratively better pitcher. I get all this and as I type this Koji has been sitting in the dugout for awhile watching the Sox squander a big scoring opportunity. He's 38 years old. I wonder how many 1.2 IP appearances he makes before it catches up with him.
I don't think it's a stupid move. I just think they could have lightened up his load with an effective Breslow and keep him refreshed for Game 6 and/or Game 7 without jeopardizing the lead as there was nobody on at that point. Well Hopefully he has 5 more and he holds em all down!
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 18, 2013 0:53:21 GMT -5
Not to pick on you, or Pedey, but this is from the game 3 thread, before Napoli crushed his home run: ... a horrible [at-bat] ... by Napoli. He looks lost on breaking balls. He took 2 right in the zone and swings a low pitch for strike 3 I know it's tough to watch those at bats, but this game is all about variation, short and long term. Victorino could break out tomorrow, and Napoli's bat could go silent again. That's the way it works. Always has, probably always will, at least as long as the game is played. I really don't see Nava replacing Victorino in right field, nor should anyone else. That's one of the toughest defensive venues in MLB, and a lot of Victorino's value, maybe as much as half, came from playing his home games out there. It would be a fool's game to gamble like that.
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Post by charliezink16 on Oct 18, 2013 1:00:14 GMT -5
LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 18, 2013 6:20:22 GMT -5
The next game Xander starts out sitting on the bench should be next year when he needs a rest.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 18, 2013 9:15:18 GMT -5
HUMONGOUS test coming up. Need one of Buch or Lackey to step up big time. This is far from over. Great, great series thus far. Refreshing to be facing a good Tigers team, who have a coach who makes questionable moves but isn't hailed as the best manager ever for whatever goofy reason. My theory is that it's awfully difficult to pitch great in back to back games. Not my theory, but I'm running with it...LOL. There has been stuff written about how pitchers struggle a little after no-hitters. It's hard to pitch a great game to a great line-up and come back and do it again 5 days later. D. Price vs Texas then struggles in Fenway Game 1. Anibel Sanchez great in Game 1. Not so last night. Peavy was very good at TB. Awful vs Detroit. My only exception would be great pitchers on a roll; Hershiser, Pedro, Schilling, Randy Johnson and Verlander this year. Does Max Scherzer fall into the first category? Or, the second? I think we'll get a better game out of Buchholz. 2 runs in 6. Let's get a couple off of Scherzer and make it a bullpen game and finish it Saturday Night. My theory doesn't look good for Gm 7. I really doubt that Lackey could follow up his Gm 3 performance. While, I'm pretty sure Verlander can repeat what he's been doing.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 18, 2013 9:19:49 GMT -5
Two things: At Fenway especially Victorino's defense is crucial, and honestly so is Drew's defense, so even if they are both totally lost at the plate, they contribute something important, so I'd still keep them in the lineup. And the funny thing is - as much as I didn't want to see Koji have to get five outs, it's because of my faith in Breslow, who has been wonderful. Normally I'd be screaming to go to Koji, but Breslow has earned trust and kudos. Could also be a test of Peralta in LF. He wasn't really challenged by the Monster last time. Something off the tin could end up being a triple,
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Post by Guidas on Oct 18, 2013 9:21:03 GMT -5
So, Xander Bogaerts has helped this team win every time he's been put on the field. Farrell: "Bah! He's not a veteran with intangibles. Like Drew."
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Post by semperfisox on Oct 18, 2013 9:28:52 GMT -5
god drew has been pathetic
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 18, 2013 9:50:54 GMT -5
Sox pen in this series. 17 1/3 IP- 10H - 1R - 1ER - 6BB - 13K The only run our pen allowed was the double play Cabrera hit into last night. Not a lot of k's. Hope the BABIP Gods don't catch up with us until next spring.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 18, 2013 10:00:38 GMT -5
god drew has been pathetic You're preaching to the choir man, haha.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 18, 2013 10:03:15 GMT -5
god drew has been pathetic There's no getting around how abysmal Drew has been at the plate, but his defense has still been really really good. Considering how close these games have been - and, for the most part, low scoring - his D is worth the automatic that. For that reason, I wouldn't mind seeing Ross get the starts over Salty, even if he doesn't produce anything else at the plate.
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Post by Gwell55 on Oct 18, 2013 10:10:51 GMT -5
god drew has been pathetic At the plate Drew is baddddddd... however last night if Drew doesn't catch that airmailed high and behind him throw from Lester that game changer double play is an error and runs scored. In that game just that pick of a dumb pitcher throw saved the game at the time. Drew's value is high in defense and at the moment abysmal at the plate. But we need him at this time in the series!
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