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10/24 Red Sox vs. Cardinals World Series Game 2 Thread
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 24, 2013 22:14:21 GMT -5
Yup. I've posted similar evidence backing up Nava's superiority. Don, don't make ignorant posts like that without doing even a little bit of research. Nava's career UZR, DRS, UZR Arm, DRS Arm numbers, quotes from Farrell, and the "eye-test" if you're into that, all back up Nava's advantage in fielding. First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 24, 2013 22:15:03 GMT -5
NOW you bring in Drew!? After giving away 4 outs with Jonny Gomes. Genius.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 24, 2013 22:16:07 GMT -5
Can we stop this moronic Gomes nonsense now?
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Post by soxfan06 on Oct 24, 2013 22:16:14 GMT -5
Must be nice to be able to get away with throwing fastballs right down the pipe cause you know the hitters you are facing are inept.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 24, 2013 22:16:16 GMT -5
What an idiotic move not pinch hitting for Gomes or Salty.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,833
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 24, 2013 22:16:56 GMT -5
That loss might be the series.
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Post by jmei on Oct 24, 2013 22:17:36 GMT -5
Yup. I've posted similar evidence backing up Nava's superiority. Don, don't make ignorant posts like that without doing even a little bit of research. Nava's career UZR, DRS, UZR Arm, DRS Arm numbers, quotes from Farrell, and the "eye-test" if you're into that, all back up Nava's advantage in fielding. First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. No offense, but this is pretty ignorant stuff (you always want a larger sample size for defensive statistics) and also wrong if you (a) compare their prorated time in LF or (b) look beyond UZR.
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Post by nationinthesouth on Oct 24, 2013 22:17:44 GMT -5
Yup. I've posted similar evidence backing up Nava's superiority. Don, don't make ignorant posts like that without doing even a little bit of research. Nava's career UZR, DRS, UZR Arm, DRS Arm numbers, quotes from Farrell, and the "eye-test" if you're into that, all back up Nava's advantage in fielding. First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. Not to mention I recall seeing Gomes throw guys out this year on numerous occasions...but I find it best to not argue with the spreadsheet guys
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 24, 2013 22:17:52 GMT -5
Must be nice to be able to get away with throwing fastballs right down the pipe cause you know the hitters you are facing are inept. Thats what our pitchers should have done facing the bottom of the line up in the 7th.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 24, 2013 22:18:08 GMT -5
Yup. I've posted similar evidence backing up Nava's superiority. Don, don't make ignorant posts like that without doing even a little bit of research. Nava's career UZR, DRS, UZR Arm, DRS Arm numbers, quotes from Farrell, and the "eye-test" if you're into that, all back up Nava's advantage in fielding. First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. Fielding metrics are much more reliable when you look at career. Fielding metrics are less reliable when looking at individual year.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 24, 2013 22:19:23 GMT -5
First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. Not to mention I recall seeing Gomes throw guys out this year on numerous occasions...but I find it best to not argue with the spreadsheet guys Manny threw out lots of guys in left too. Doesn't make him a good hitter
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Post by nationinthesouth on Oct 24, 2013 22:20:59 GMT -5
Not to mention I recall seeing Gomes throw guys out this year on numerous occasions...but I find it best to not argue with the spreadsheet guys Manny threw out lots of guys in left too. Doesn't make him a good hitterYou lost me
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Post by jmei on Oct 24, 2013 22:21:37 GMT -5
First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. Not to mention I recall seeing Gomes throw guys out this year on numerous occasions...but I find it best to not argue with the spreadsheet guys www.cbssports.com/mlb/stats/playersort/MLB/OFA/ALL/ALL/regularseason/2013Nava had 5 outfield assists in 2013. Gomes had 0. But please, make more stuff up.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 24, 2013 22:23:42 GMT -5
That was just a really foolish loss. I'm watching the replay and if Salty concentrates on catching the ball and not worrying about the runner, at worst it's a sac fly and a tie game. I didn't mind if the Cards tied the score at 2-2. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered because Beltran followed with a single anyways. It probably wouldn't have mattered given the way Rosenthal was throwing but I would have started with the high OBP PH Nava (who struck out anyways), and had Carp 3rd in the order. Carp's bat is going to waste which is too bad.
The fact of the matter is that the Sox only had about 5 hits. They really didn't hit, and if they're trying to get the starter out to get to the Cards bullpen, they're finding out that the Cards bullpen is better than Detroit's bullpen. Rosenthal is plain nasty.
Ah well the only silver lining I can think of is that if the Sox win, it'll likely be at Fenway which hasn't happened since 1912. Honestly the Sox kind of need to win 2 of 3 in St. Louis which is a tall order. If they only take one, then they need to win Game 6 and 7. Even one win might be a struggle. I have no idea what to expect from Peavy and the Buchholz thing is ominous. The Sox really better have their hitting shoes on for those two games.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 24, 2013 22:24:01 GMT -5
No offense, but this is pretty ignorant stuff (you always want a larger sample size for defensive statistics) and also wrong if you (a) compare their prorated time in LF or (b) look beyond UZR. Dude, Gomes was not playing for the Red Sox prior to this year and Daniel Nava was a journeyman. This is the only reliable data, considering they're playing a different LF than most out there in the majors (yes, because of the monster). You can disagree. And I'm not disagreeing that Nava should be starting. But to think it would've made a significant difference because of their stats in that particular situation is the offensive part.
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Post by nationinthesouth on Oct 24, 2013 22:24:32 GMT -5
I show him as 5 as well....dont be afraid to unfilter....your a Mod?
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 24, 2013 22:24:56 GMT -5
Well, actually they both had 5. Yup. I've posted similar evidence backing up Nava's superiority. Don, don't make ignorant posts like that without doing even a little bit of research. Nava's career UZR, DRS, UZR Arm, DRS Arm numbers, quotes from Farrell, and the "eye-test" if you're into that, all back up Nava's advantage in fielding. First of all, I can do without the "ignorant" bit, especially since I can't use profanity. Second of all, I checked both the players pages ( Nava and Gomes) and saw their fielding stats for 2013. I'm not big on fielding stats, and I think it's even more unreliable when you go with the players career instead of the year we're talking about (considering the sample is big enough). Gomes was a better fielder in LF in 2013 by those metrics. Are you suggesting you'd like to swear at me since I said your post was ignorant, which it was? jmei already posted after you the reasoning for it, but if you don't understand why career numbers/large sample size is vital to interpreting UZR and DRS numbers, then I have nothing to say.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 24, 2013 22:25:46 GMT -5
You just ran out of lucky bailouts Farrell. That 7th inning is a team loss between Lackey - who otherwise pitched a tremendous game - letting the 7&8 batters reach after having 2 strikes on both, Salty for not throwing out a runner at 3rd. Breslow for walking the #9 hitter, Gomes for overthrowing the cuttoff man, and Breslow for overthrowing the ball girl & letting the go ahead run in, and then plating in an insurance run for the Cards just to make sure this was a loss.
That's two games pissed away by their teams. First team to execute properly for all 9 innings may well win this series.
On to the land of burnt ends to hear Mr. Old Armslot (hint: not working) hold forth for the next 24 hours on how much he wants to prove his last start was a fluke (hint: not working either. Talk is cheap. Knocking down outs, thats the path to immortality and free meals in the Commonwealth for life. This hubris will squall for a day and a half while Sox fans proceed to under estimate the exact type of pitcher who gives this team fits - the unknown/unseen streaky #3. With this pen the cardinals need only 6 innings from their starters anyway. Gotta get your lead or tie by the because it'll be tougher to plate runs than getting a call back from Jen Aniston no matter how much she liked the idea of a Twister and coco oil night at your place.
Grrrrr.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 24, 2013 22:27:31 GMT -5
At least this ends the whole "undefeated with Gomes" narrative.
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Post by jmei on Oct 24, 2013 22:28:57 GMT -5
I show him as 5 as well....dont be afraid to unfilter....your a Mod? Sorry, for some reason it didn't show Gomes on my phone so it looked like he had none. My fault, sorry for overreacting.
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Post by nationinthesouth on Oct 24, 2013 22:30:24 GMT -5
I show him as 5 as well....dont be afraid to unfilter....your a Mod? Sorry, for some reason it didn't show Gomes on my phone so it looked like he had none. My fault, sorry for overreacting. We wouldnt be Sox fans otherwise....Its all good
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 24, 2013 22:31:04 GMT -5
Gonna be tough to sleep on this one.
Good night guys.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 24, 2013 22:31:41 GMT -5
Are you suggesting you'd like to swear at me since I said your post was ignorant, which it was? jmei already posted after you the reasoning for it, but if you don't understand why career numbers/large sample size is vital to interpreting UZR and DRS numbers, then I have nothing to say. How is this post not as offensive as me swearing at you?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 24, 2013 22:31:50 GMT -5
You just ran out of lucky bailouts Farrell. That 7th inning is a team loss between Lackey - who otherwise pitched a tremendous game - letting the 7&8 batters reach after having 2 strikes on both, Salty for now throwing out a runner at 3rd. Breslow for walking the #9 hitter, Gomes for overthrowing the cuttoff man, and Breslow for overthrowing the ball girl letting the go ahead run in, and then brining in an insurance run just to make sure this was a loss. That's two games pissed away by their team. First team to execute properly for all 9 innings may well win this series. On to the land of burnt ends to hear Mr. Old Armslot (hint: not working) hold forth for the next 24 hours on how much he was to prove his last start was a fluke and deliver for his teammates while Sox fans proceed to under estimate the exact type of pitcher who give this team fits - the unknown/unseen streaky #3. With this pen the cardinals need only 6 innings from their starter anyway. Grrrrr. I feel bad for Lackey. He pitched his heart out tonight. With one out in the 7th he was cruising and then he gave up a hit, but with Jay and Descalso scheduled I wasn't too concerned. I was wondering if they should go to Breslow there and give him more of a margin, but I thought to myself, Lackey is cruising - he can get Jay out, but he gave up the hit and I thought time to bring in Breslow, so I can't second guess that move. I would have done the same thing. Daniel Descalso. Yeesh. How do you walk that guy?
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 24, 2013 22:33:23 GMT -5
I show him as 5 as well....dont be afraid to unfilter....your a Mod? Sorry, for some reason it didn't show Gomes on my phone so it looked like he had none. My fault, sorry for overreacting. Yeah, Gomes didn't show up for me on your link either. Jmei, why on earth are you using CBS over BB-Ref?! Hope to see Ross and NAVA in there tomorrow. Regarding Breslow, his FIP, xFIP, and K and and BB rates strongly implied he scraped by a lot to get such sparkling traditional stats (read: ERA) this season. He shouldn't have nibbled to Descalso like that, unless he was really struggling to find a feel for his pitches, which actually seemed to be the case. ANDREW MILLER I MISS YOU. Are you suggesting you'd like to swear at me since I said your post was ignorant, which it was? jmei already posted after you the reasoning for it, but if you don't understand why career numbers/large sample size is vital to interpreting UZR and DRS numbers, then I have nothing to say. How is this post not as offensive as me swearing at you? Look up the definition of ignorance, which FYI I said was a quality of your post and not yourself. It seemed pretty fitting. Certainly less offensive than calling me a POS for making a legitimate claim. I apologize if it got you riled up, but it was simply meant to express a point and not attack you.
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