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Post by jmei on Oct 24, 2013 22:38:06 GMT -5
No offense, but this is pretty ignorant stuff (you always want a larger sample size for defensive statistics) and also wrong if you (a) compare their prorated time in LF or (b) look beyond UZR. Dude, Gomes was not playing for the Red Sox prior to this year and Daniel Nava was a journeyman. This is the only reliable data, considering they're playing a different LF than most out there in the majors (yes, because of the monster). You can disagree. And I'm not disagreeing that Nava should be starting. But to think it would've made a significant difference because of their stats in that particular situation is the offensive part. This is like saying global warming doesn't exist because temperatures went up in 2013. And BR on my phone is awful so I just googled "outfield assists by team".
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 24, 2013 22:43:22 GMT -5
This is like saying global warming doesn't exist because temperatures went up in 2013. Oh man, don't tell me, it's nearly summer here where I live and it's unbearable already. You guys are still a blast even with the gigantic pessimism, just to register it.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 24, 2013 22:44:24 GMT -5
Holy crap, how dumb was that throw by Breslow? He should probably never show his face again in Boston if they lose this series.
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Post by jmei on Oct 24, 2013 22:46:44 GMT -5
This is like saying global warming doesn't exist because temperatures went up in 2013. Oh man, don't tell me, it's nearly summer here where I live and it's unbearable already. You guys are still a blast even with the gigantic pessimism, just to register it. Oops, meant 'down.' But yeah, hard for me to watch a game without the gameday thread anymore.
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Post by nationinthesouth on Oct 24, 2013 22:50:22 GMT -5
Again feel much better going to STL 1-1 than I did going to Det 1-1. I do think we should see Nava (and his left handedness) in LF, Papi at 1st. Napoli has to sit, and fingers crossed Xander at SS and WMB back in at third. This feels like it will be a slugfest in games 3 and 4, not sure Drew's Mark Belanger performance plays out as much.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 24, 2013 22:51:47 GMT -5
If Farrell cares about intangibles and defense in close games he should absolutely play Ross from here on out. And Nava in place of Gomes. I don't like to criticize the manager but it would seem that both are better decisions than Salty and Gomes. Ross is a winner and he will give us solid defense. I bet they wouldn't have even tried to do that double steal on him and he probably would have at least caught that outfield throw as well. Not to mention called a better game. And I've never been impressed with Salty's ability to hit good pitching.
I've gotta also say that every pitch even close to a strike was called in favor of the Card relievers tonight also. To Pedey and several others. If we had gotten a few calls there in the 8th it could have been a different game.
So the network is happy, the league is happy, 1/2 of the viewing audience again has hope and we have a close series now. Anyone can win. I know most of you don't think it's a factor but I bet the umps know where their bread is buttered. They want these games to be close. They want a 7 game series. It's millions of dollars in revenue per game. And that filters down to everyone. In the leagues eyes, the best umps are the ones which can maximize revenue without anyone noticing. They gave those calls to St. Louis pitchers for a reason. Nothing had to be said. They knew what to do.
It's not explicitly overt but it happens at least some whether any of you guys want to admit it or not. With at least some umps. We had the PED era and no one said a thing for quite a while because it was great for revenue. It's a sport first but it's also a business model. We should understand that and act accordingly in these sorts of situations. It's easier to overcome it if we are aware of it.
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 24, 2013 23:05:05 GMT -5
Brian MacPherson ?@brianmacp 7m Farrell on Nava when asked about lineup changes: "It's likely he'll continue to factor in."
Continue? He better start starting. Nava and Ross full time for the rest of the WS. Regarding the impact a player brings that isn't reflected in stats, is there any better example of that than David Ross? Certainly it's a lot more effective starting him over Salty than Gomes over Nava if you're trying to take advantage of that extra something a player brings. Surely pitchers prefer Ross on the field with them more so than Gomes.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 24, 2013 23:15:50 GMT -5
Brian MacPherson ?@brianmacp 7m Farrell on Nava when asked about lineup changes: "It's likely he'll continue to factor in." Continue? He better start starting. Nava and Ross full time for the rest of the WS. Regarding the impact a player brings that isn't reflected in stats, is there any better example of that than David Ross? Certainly it's a lot more effective starting him over Salty than Gomes over Nava if you're trying to take advantage of that extra something a player brings. Surely pitchers prefer Ross on the field with them more so than Gomes. JF said this week that nava is starting in STL.... Ortiz one or two games in STL also
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 24, 2013 23:57:55 GMT -5
Holy crap, how dumb was that throw by Breslow? He should probably never show his face again in Boston if they lose this series. Chill. I hated the way Breslow pitched and that dumb throw, but he's been great almost all year. He stunk at a bad time. But never show his face in Boston? Come on. Buckner's error was a lot more fatal than this one and he can show his face in Boston, and rightfully show (McNamara on the other hand should never show his mug in this region) Breslow is a good reliever who had been unscored upon during the post-season. Law of averages said he'd have a crappy outing. Just wish it was in April 2014 and not Game 2 of the Series.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 25, 2013 2:58:46 GMT -5
You just ran out of lucky bailouts Farrell. That 7th inning is a team loss between Lackey - who otherwise pitched a tremendous game - letting the 7&8 batters reach after having 2 strikes on both, Salty for not throwing out a runner at 3rd. Breslow for walking the #9 hitter, Gomes for overthrowing the cuttoff man, and Breslow for overthrowing the ball girl & letting the go ahead run in, and then plating in an insurance run for the Cards just to make sure this was a loss. That's two games pissed away by their teams. First team to execute properly for all 9 innings may well win this series. On to the land of burnt ends to hear Mr. Old Armslot (hint: not working) hold forth for the next 24 hours on how much he wants to prove his last start was a fluke (hint: not working either. Talk is cheap. Knocking down outs, thats the path to immortality and free meals in the Commonwealth for life. This hubris will squall for a day and a half while Sox fans proceed to under estimate the exact type of pitcher who gives this team fits - the unknown/unseen streaky #3. With this pen the cardinals need only 6 innings from their starters anyway. Gotta get your lead or tie by the because it'll be tougher to plate runs than getting a call back from Jen Aniston no matter how much she liked the idea of a Twister and coco oil night at your place. Grrrrr. Which of course was why I made the point a few days ago that Nava should be in the lineup over Gomes as the best option to deepen the lineup and try to build innings against St. Louis' starters. But as much as I would like to see Nava in the lineup over Gomes, invoking handedness in the 7th inning rally isn't one of them, because the bad throw was such a random event. If Breslow had thrown it on a little different tangent, then maybe Gomes' righthandedness would have been an advantage rather than a disadvantage.
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Post by hammerhead on Oct 25, 2013 6:47:16 GMT -5
Do you guys even think before you post? This crap that the series is over because the sox lost against the hottest pitcher on the opposing team is a bunch of garbage. This team is in the World Series and now the manager is an idiot, the starting catcher should be benched and the teams best Left-handed reliever should never show his face in Boston. We should start Ross because he's a winner? but when Farrell says he's starting Gomes because he's a "winner" Farrell is a douche. Not saying I agree with starting Gomes, but I'm not going to repeat it over and over when it probably has no impact on the outcome.
Why even post if you're gonna bash a team and players that have been a million times better than anyone expected. Read through the Tampa thread, or the Detroit thread, it's not funny, it's not some sarcastic reverse jinx thing. It makes you guys look like a bunch of entitled, whining crybabies who have no idea what you're talking about. Hasn't this team given you enough to have some faith in them?
I know the responses will be that it's the heat of the moment etc. That you didn't really mean it, but why would anyone take you serious on anything else you post after reading pages of that kind of stuff.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 25, 2013 7:51:01 GMT -5
Well, I'm not in "the series is over" clan after that debacle yet, but it did become much, much harder. Now it's best 3 of 5 with StL having home field, Sox losing part of their intrinsic composition without the DH and also having a pitcher going tomorrow who couldn't throw a strike after the first inning of his last start. Add to this their game 4 starter seems to be going through a dead arm period and that StL's pen from the 7th forward seems to be as advertised. Advantage right now sits with the Cardinals, whereas last night the Sox had them 8 outs from the precipice. Just very hard to swallow, especially how the inning completely unraveled against the bottom of the Cards' order with a bunch of unforced errors committed by our players in rapid succession.
So yeah, it all got fugly fast. But it ain't over, just a lot harder from here on out.
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Post by ramireja on Oct 25, 2013 7:53:52 GMT -5
Do you guys even think before you post? This crap that the series is over because the sox lost against the hottest pitcher on the opposing team is a bunch of garbage. This team is in the World Series and now the manager is an idiot, the starting catcher should be benched and the teams best Left-handed reliever should never show his face in Boston. We should start Ross because he's a winner? but when Farrell says he's starting Gomes because he's a "winner" Farrell is a douche. Not saying I agree with starting Gomes, but I'm not going to repeat it over and over when it probably has no impact on the outcome. Why even post if you're gonna bash a team and players that have been a million times better than anyone expected. Read through the Tampa thread, or the Detroit thread, it's not funny, it's not some sarcastic reverse jinx thing. It makes you guys look like a bunch of entitled, whining crybabies who have no idea what you're talking about. Hasn't this team given you enough to have some faith in them? I know the responses will be that it's the heat of the moment etc. That you didn't really mean it, but why would anyone take you serious on anything else you post after reading pages of that kind of stuff. Cheers. I'm okay with literal comments in the moment (i.e. Breslow shouldn't have attempted that throw), but the overreactions and throwing players under the bus who have given us a full season of great performances is incredibly short-sighted and disheartening. I wonder how some of you guys will remember this team if they don't win the world series.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 25, 2013 8:04:07 GMT -5
People aren't surprised they lost, it was they way they lost. You can't walk bottom of the order guys like that
Bringing in Breslow was the right move I think, Breslow just didn't perform.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 25, 2013 8:15:28 GMT -5
The story of the game seems to be the errors but in my opinion it was the walks that were worse. Even without the errors tbe cards tie it there. Beltran got the hit next anyway.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 25, 2013 9:06:50 GMT -5
The story of the game seems to be the errors but in my opinion it was the walks that were worse. Even without the errors tbe cards tie it there. Beltran got the hit next anyway. Not if Salty throws out the guy at 3rd. Then fly to OF and out of the inning still up 2-1.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,422
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Post by ianrs on Oct 25, 2013 9:20:51 GMT -5
Hey guys, remember when the Red Sox were 1 hit in Game 2 against Detroit?
We'll be fine.
Write it down: Doubront will pick up a win in STL.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 25, 2013 9:33:29 GMT -5
The story of the game seems to be the errors but in my opinion it was the walks that were worse. Even without the errors tbe cards tie it there. Beltran got the hit next anyway. Not if Salty throws out the guy at 3rd. Then fly to OF and out of the inning still up 2-1. True... I think Ross would've had him. I also think we have to give the Cardinals some credit, they played well and took advantage of mistakes.
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Post by godot on Oct 25, 2013 9:50:37 GMT -5
Does anyone believe that last year at this team we would have the pleasure of watching the Sox play in the World Series.. Enjoy, life is short and crazy. Winter is coming.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 25, 2013 10:01:43 GMT -5
Alot went into that...but when you have a bad defensive catcher that also isnt hitting...well ...then it's time to sign him to re-sign him as a franchise cornerstone?
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Post by texasleaguer on Oct 25, 2013 10:42:30 GMT -5
Farrell is managing like this is the regular season. The Freeze walk was the key. Freeze was a ready made strike out with a high fast ball. Instead Lackey went breaking ball on last two pitches at least, and walked him. I go Lackey out and Tazawa in right there.I go Tazawa and Breslow for 7th and 8th and Uehara for a four or five out save. Farrell is too slow with the hook OR he really doesn't believe in his pen.
Speaking of the pen, could we have used Miller in the 7th against Jay or probably Robinson and then Descalso and Carpenter. One step further up the dream machine, just imagine an effective Bard in the bullpen. We've lost Bard, Hanrahan, Bailey, Miller---all this year. Considering that, our bullpen has done very well all year. Cards bullpen is superior and deeper. Rosenthal, 22yrs old, lights out....next Cards closer
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Post by station13 on Oct 25, 2013 10:58:09 GMT -5
Farrell has use Tazawa very well in the playoff. Taz has 11IR and 1 scored off him. Plus he hold runners better than anyone of the team. It would have been better if he pitch over Breslow after that walk by Lackey.
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Post by jmei on Oct 25, 2013 11:04:13 GMT -5
Well, I'm not in "the series is over" clan after that debacle yet, but it did become much, much harder. Now it's best 3 of 5 with StL having home field, Sox losing part of their intrinsic composition without the DH and also having a pitcher going tomorrow who couldn't throw a strike after the first inning of his last start. Add to this their game 4 starter seems to be going through a dead arm period and that StL's pen from the 7th forward seems to be as advertised. Advantage right now sits with the Cardinals, whereas last night the Sox had them 8 outs from the precipice. Just very hard to swallow, especially how the inning completely unraveled against the bottom of the Cards' order with a bunch of unforced errors committed by our players in rapid succession. So yeah, it all got fugly fast. But it ain't over, just a lot harder from here on out. How they lost was annoying (winnable games always are), but I would have certainly taken a split of the first two games before the series started. Now, STL has two far inferior pitchers on the mound. I believe Vegas still has the Red Sox as favorites, as should be the case.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 25, 2013 11:27:46 GMT -5
I think this series depends quite a lot on how Peavy is going to pitch. With Buch pretty much a zombie, we can't afford to not have two above average starters to throw against Lynn and Kelly.
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Post by hammerhead on Oct 25, 2013 11:31:11 GMT -5
I think Boston definitely has the advantage. Lynn and Kelly aren't just worse then every sox starter including Doubront, they are probably worse than any starter the sox have seen in the playoffs. If Wainright goes on short rest I am just as confident. I don't see Peavy getting shelled, the walks in the Detroit game were a bit fluky for him. If he can keep it close than I think the sox should take that game. Buchholz in game 4 looks like a safe bet too. I think Buchholz has enough to give you 4 or 5 top flight innings, and I think Doubront can get us to the pen from there.
I don't see losing the DH as that huge of a deal. Ortiz will play first and Napoli will be a decent PH weapon off the bench. Napoli will simply K less....
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