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Create your own adventure: You're the GM!
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 5, 2013 11:12:39 GMT -5
I think that's something they already have or could easily acquire through an MLFAs. They already have Nava and Castellanos for depth in RF and Victorino in CF. They could easily resign Kalish and/or Berry to minor league deals to increase the organizational depth at both positions. They don't need to sign a major league free agent who can play CF if they really believe in Bradley.
Maybe I am reading into things, but during Farrel's EEI interview yesterday he seemed much more definite regarding Bogarts major league readiness than Bradley's. I really hope that you are right though and I am just being paranoid.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 5, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I mentioned Davis in my original post. He's an option, but you'd still have to move Nava or Carp (or forgo signing another 1B (Napoli or Hart or Morse)), which might be too many moving parts. I'd move Gomes for Davis.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 5, 2013 14:54:48 GMT -5
I find myself discussing the risk/reward/cost/payoff dynamic a lot. This is a perfect example.
There is certainly a very real risk that Bradley has growing pains and struggles out of the gate. The consequence of this risk of course is that if this happens, it will harm the Red Sox playoff chances in 2014. The cost of mitigating this risk would be trading Nava, or Carp maybe at a discount to their value so that you have room for a likely weaker hitter, but one that could play CF and/or RF on a more consistent basis. That and you'd have to overpay for that player, I don't think Rajai Davis is getting $12M unless it's a situation like the one you describe.
My personal preference is that if Bradley struggles out of the gate, that the Red Sox stick with him for a substantial length of time. There would be short-term costs to this, costs that might even cost the Red Sox the division in 2014, but long-term I think they would be better off letting Bradley grow without fear of losing his job.
Further though I know I've not been Daniel Nava's biggest fan, after the year he had he obviously has value as a pre-arb player who just put up a good overall full season. I wouldn't want to trade him, or Carp for that matter unless it was for a piece that would give you a good chance to upgrade the team over the next few years. You want to trade Nava to get a potential #2 at discount price that you can extend like Brett Anderson I'm all for it. But I am not for trading him for two B prospects just to clear room for a Rajai Davis type.
In conclusion, I think that I am more willing to accept a step back in 2014 if it means integrating Bradley and Bogarts and perhaps some others into the major league core. That means letting Bradley sink or swim as opposed to paying through the nose for a mediocre policy.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 5, 2013 14:58:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I mentioned Davis in my original post. He's an option, but you'd still have to move Nava or Carp (or forgo signing another 1B (Napoli or Hart or Morse)), which might be too many moving parts. I'd move Gomes for Davis. That's the kind of thing that seems to make decent sense in a vacuum but in reality makes no sense. You are asking the team basically to eat $5M and dump a World Series hero to make room for a marginal player. It's not going to happen.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 5, 2013 15:04:10 GMT -5
I'd move Gomes for Davis. That's the kind of thing that seems to make decent sense in a vacuum but in reality makes no sense. You are asking the team basically to eat $5M and dump a World Series hero to make room for a marginal player. It's not going to happen. Why does it make no sense? Gomes is average at best hitting and a liability in the field. Davis provides backup in CF and RF, can mash lefties and adds a lot of speed. It's exactly the kind of insurance they need for JBJ and Victorino so we can avoid seeing a Carp/Nava/Gomes outfield whenever JBJ and Victorino may be out of the lineup at the same time.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 5, 2013 15:31:29 GMT -5
Jonny gomes...world series hero? That is one hell of a low bar to jump over. I don't think I'd trade Gomes to clear space for Davis. I'd trade Nava for good value to clear space for Davis after signing Choo or Beltran for LF. Definitely not give Nava away as he is of real value to a lot of teams. He could definitely net us a platoon RH hitter for 1st base for example with Carp. At least.
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Post by brendan98 on Dec 5, 2013 15:32:39 GMT -5
There is no reason you could not keep Gomes and sign Davis, in terms of maximizing the production from the outfield signing Davis would be a solid addition to what the Sox already have. It would allow for a L/R platoon in both CF and LF with Bradley and Davis in CF, and Nava and Gomes in LF, on paper it makes a lot of sense. Realistically, Farrell is not going to limit Gomes to the LHP portion of at-bats in a straight up platoon, but I still think adding Davis could be valuable, as a platoon option for Bradley vs LHP if necessary, and as a Quentin Berry type presence on the bench when he is not in the lineup.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 5, 2013 15:37:23 GMT -5
Jonny gomes...world series hero? That is one hell of a low bar to jump over. I don't think I'd trade Gomes to clear space for Davis. I'd trade Nava for good value to clear space for Davis after signing Choo or Beltran for LF. Definitely not give Nava away as he is of real value to a lot of teams. He could definitely net us a platoon RH hitter for 1st base for example with Carp. At least. That certainly sounds like giving him away to me. And if you don't trade Gomes, yet you acquire Choo or Beltran, where do you fit them all in? You're going to constantly have to shuffle Victorino to center, Beltran/Choo to right, and sit JBJ vs. a large amount of lefties, which I really don't think is a good idea. Unless you think Nava is going to regress extremely heavily (also remember that projection systems don't factor in playing with injuries, like Nava did in 2012 with a horrific cyst on his wrist), there's no point in moving him for a part-time piece and spending $32 to $100+ million on Beltran or Choo to replace him.
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Post by jmei on Dec 5, 2013 15:39:17 GMT -5
There is no reason you could not keep Gomes and sign Davis, in terms of maximizing the production from the outfield signing Davis would be a solid addition to what the Sox already have. It would allow for a L/R platoon in both CF and LF with Bradley and Davis in CF, and Nava and Gomes in LF, on paper it makes a lot of sense. Realistically, Farrell is not going to limit Gomes to the LHP portion of at-bats in a straight up platoon, but I still think adding Davis could be valuable, as a platoon option for Bradley vs LHP if necessary, and as a Quentin Berry type presence on the bench when he is not in the lineup. Because of roster limits (four bench players, two of which are the backup C and INF), you can't add Davis to the current Red Sox roster unless you forgo signing a first baseman and let Nava/Carp take the job.
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Post by brendan98 on Dec 5, 2013 15:54:09 GMT -5
There is no reason you could not keep Gomes and sign Davis, in terms of maximizing the production from the outfield signing Davis would be a solid addition to what the Sox already have. It would allow for a L/R platoon in both CF and LF with Bradley and Davis in CF, and Nava and Gomes in LF, on paper it makes a lot of sense. Realistically, Farrell is not going to limit Gomes to the LHP portion of at-bats in a straight up platoon, but I still think adding Davis could be valuable, as a platoon option for Bradley vs LHP if necessary, and as a Quentin Berry type presence on the bench when he is not in the lineup. Because of roster limits (four bench players, two of which are the backup C and INF), you can't add Davis to the current Red Sox roster unless you forgo signing a first baseman and let Nava/Carp take the job. Forgot about Carp.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 5, 2013 17:41:24 GMT -5
Gomes is still clearly a better hitter than Davis especially versus lefties. Further as we've learned, defense has very little marginal value in LF in Fenway. Besides, Davis although he's a better fielder than Gomes, is still below average in CF and RF.
But more to the point. Gomes provides intangibles and leadership and is a huge part of team marketing. All of those things are worth giving away if you are replacing him with a clearly better player, but not if you are replacing him with a career. .306 W/OBA hitter like Davis. You can't justify those moves to ownership or to the fan base.
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Post by jmei on Dec 5, 2013 18:13:37 GMT -5
But more to the point. Gomes provides intangibles and leadership and is a huge part of team marketing. All of those things are worth giving away if you are replacing him with a clearly better player, but not if you are replacing him with a career. .306 W/OBA hitter like Davis. You can't justify those moves to ownership or to the fan base. I mean, this is the you're the GM thread. I don't think anyone realistically thinks moving Gomes is on the table, which is why we have to resort to various machinations to try and add more talent to the roster.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 5, 2013 20:08:30 GMT -5
But more to the point. Gomes provides intangibles and leadership and is a huge part of team marketing. All of those things are worth giving away if you are replacing him with a clearly better player, but not if you are replacing him with a career. .306 W/OBA hitter like Davis. You can't justify those moves to ownership or to the fan base. I mean, this is the you're the GM thread. I don't think anyone realistically thinks moving Gomes is on the table, which is why we have to resort to various machinations to try and add more talent to the roster. Right and GMs have to consider many factors besides what might make the roster marginally better. I think we can all agree, unless the Sox are acquiring a major upgrade to play LF, Gomes is on the roster.
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Post by oleary25 on Dec 6, 2013 18:22:53 GMT -5
I've been thinking about what everyone wants and what has come from Boston in regards To JBJ and the 2014 RedSox. The best option is in the form of a trade with the dodgers for Kemp, and sign either Hart or Napoli ( preferably Hart). I know he's not an amazing CF and is risky but think of it this way if the dodgers throw in some $ he'll cost less than Choo and is better protection for Ortiz. JBJ plays center other days when Nava is off or playing 1B moving Kemp to LF or having Gomes in LF playing lefties. while still keeping Victorino in RF occasionally moving to CF. By signing Hart and trading for Kemp we effectively circumvent the draft constraints while putting a solid team on the field and netting 4 high draft picks. With that being said the dodgers will want Peavy and either Ranaudo/Barnes and one of Mookie, Britton, or marrero. Dempster would be our fifth starter rebuilding his stock in the first half while giving the Young Guns time to develop before he might get dealt for a piece at the deadline. We also would have to spin off carp in a separate deal and get a B + prospect. This team would have a lot of flexibility and I believe would be a contender to repeat. Feel free to criticize and hopefully come up with a better squad. A few problems I do realize with this team are they maybe too right hand heavy. Also there's no true lead off hitter which I noticed is a problem in most mocks.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 6, 2013 19:15:56 GMT -5
Jonny gomes...world series hero? That is one hell of a low bar to jump over. I don't think I'd trade Gomes to clear space for Davis. I'd trade Nava for good value to clear space for Davis after signing Choo or Beltran for LF. Definitely not give Nava away as he is of real value to a lot of teams. He could definitely net us a platoon RH hitter for 1st base for example with Carp. At least. That certainly sounds like giving him away to me. And if you don't trade Gomes, yet you acquire Choo or Beltran, where do you fit them all in? You're going to constantly have to shuffle Victorino to center, Beltran/Choo to right, and sit JBJ vs. a large amount of lefties, which I really don't think is a good idea. Unless you think Nava is going to regress extremely heavily (also remember that projection systems don't factor in playing with injuries, like Nava did in 2012 with a horrific cyst on his wrist), there's no point in moving him for a part-time piece and spending $32 to $100+ million on Beltran or Choo to replace him. I knew as soon as I said that someone would find fault with that. That's why I said "at least". But I understand your point is valid. To me Nava is good enough to start on most teams but is he good enough for us to net a good starting 1st baseman? I don't think so but the solution I have in mind is Billy Butler. Would 2 years of roughly 9 mil per year cost for Butler be a reasonable trade for Nava, at 4 years of less expensive control? Butler is RH and maybe a better fit for us. More pop and a more proven record. Nava might well replace Butler in KC as their primary DH. I think it is close to a one up deal but we probably would need to add a prospect. What if we threw in some cash and offered Dempster as well? That solves the 1st base problem for us for 2 years with solid RH pop, excellent Papi protection, and maybe the salary cap considerations are a net wash. RH power bats are at a premium though. A straight up Nava deal probably doesn't get done. We should be in win now mode. Adding Choo in LF and Butler at 1st and we have a good shot to go all the way again. We might even have the ability to trade a Peavy and get Tanaka as well. I'm ok with Workman / Webster / Ranaudo / Barnes / Wright as starter depth.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2013 20:39:37 GMT -5
What's win now mode? Were they in that mode last year? Most would have said no, but they won anyways. When I hear that term it makes me think mortgaging the future. You haven't suggested that, but regardless of what happens they are trying to win.
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Post by colombianrsox on Dec 7, 2013 10:26:39 GMT -5
Agree rjp. We are in smart winning mode.Kemp is not worth that much. We have plenty to trade. Maybe we could fish a sort of Papi-2002 type. A WillyMo but functional who could wait a year.. Wait, isn't that Castellanos?
Maybe the answer is a college level almost MLB ready bat in the next draft? Or a japaneses or cuban. Abreu would have been a good choice.
I would go for Juan Uribe. It may give you insurance over Middlebrooks and a nice bat. It could go SS or 3rd base.
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