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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 8, 2013 15:38:06 GMT -5
I think that might be enough because the Brewers should want to cut payroll (so they can improve their starting pitching) and Ramirez is due a whopping $16m next year. But other commentators apparently think the Brewers might want to contend in 2014, so maybe the Red Sox will need to offer something more enticing or Ramirez just isn't on the market. I also forgot about Khris Davis, who Brewers fans are optimistic about, so maybe Brentz isn't a fit. I'm comfortable upping the offer to someone like Anthony Ranaudo, who is a sell-high candidate to me. Or maybe the Brewers could be interested in Mike Carp? As you mentioned, the Brewers desperately want a 1B/3B, but Middlebrooks or Cecchini would be too much to pay and the Red Sox don't have much else at those spots. What about Brentz + Workman? They may be willing to take some money back if the pot is sweet enough. The BrewCrew desperately needs young starting pitching, but I can't imagine the Red Sox giving up a chip better than Workman in this deal.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2013 15:41:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't give up a workman for Aramis. Hardly, someone to rely on. History of injuries and old.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 8, 2013 16:04:59 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Nov 8, 2013 16:23:39 GMT -5
Version 2.0, edited to reflect the diminished payroll space the Red Sox have this offseason. TradeAcquire 1B/3B Aramis Ramirez from MIL for RF Bryce Brentz and SP Justin Haley SignC Carlos Ruiz to a two year, $18m contract SS/2B Nick Punto to a one year, $3m contract RP Edward Mujica to a two year, $12m contract RP Ryan Madson to a one year, minor league contract with a split $2.5m salary (if he makes the major leagues) SS Munenori Kawasaki to a minor league contract OF Trevor Crowe to a minor league contract Starting lineup (versus RHP) RF Shane Victorino 2B Dustin Pedroia DH David Ortiz 1B Aramis Ramirez LF Daniel Nava SS Xander Bogaerts 3B Will Middlebrooks C Carlos Ruiz CF Jackie Bradley Jr. BenchC David Ross LF Jonny Gomes 1B Mike Carp SS/2B Nick Punto RotationLHP Jon Lester RHP John Lackey RHP Clay Buchholz LHP Felix Doubront RHP Jake Peavy BullpenRHP Koji Uehara RHP Junichi Tazawa RHP Edward Mujica LHP Craig Breslow LHP Andrew Miller RHP Brayan Villareal RHP Ryan Dempster *[LHP Franklin Morales] *[RHP Brandon Workman] *[LHP Drake Britton] (*assuming at least one Spring Training injury means one or more of the asterisked pitchers makes the Opening Day roster.) Total payroll increase: approximately $30mChanges-Had to cut a lot of cost and go with cheaper players. Ruiz at $9m a year is still great value for a guy I think will bounce back next year, while old friend Nick Punto is the ideal fit at backup infielder, considering his switch-hitting and his steady defense at multiple positions. I also kept Carp instead of signing Chris Young to save cash, though that means that Victorino needs to stay healthy and JBJ needs to produce as the depth option (slide over Nava to RF, Gomes in LF) is much weaker. -Aramis Ramirez is still a far better option than re-signing Napoli for three years at $14m+ per year, and the latest news should be an indication that Napoli isn't going to take much of a hometown discount. He only counts $12m versus the luxury tax, though he'll get paid $16m this year. He also backs up Middlebrooks in case he struggles. -The lineup is very right-handed heavy, but there's no way to get around that. -I threw in a couple depth minor league signings. Another guy to keep an eye on is Willie Bloomquist, but I didn't include him because I think he'll get a guaranteed ML deal, which the Red Sox don't have roster space to offer unless he replaces Punto (which is a bad idea because Bloomquist is versatile defensively but bad at all the positions he can play). -I still didn't trade any of the rotation depth, because the Red Sox still have an injury-prone rotation (Buchholz, Doubront, Peavy) and the pitching is going to have to help carry the team. I would consider trading Dempster or Peavy to open up salary space, but don't know who would take even most of their salaries and offer enough in return to make it worth it. Yet another reason to get Tanaka. Lets you trade Peavy and Dempster and clear more $$$. You end up with Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Tanaka, Doubront and you have Workman as your 6th man and a choice of Webster/Morales/Wright/Renaudo as your 7th. Also free up another spot on the 40 man.
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Post by oleary25 on Nov 8, 2013 16:58:44 GMT -5
I'm sick of the Tanaka talk. I get the upside however I'd rather stay with Proven Veterans like Peavy, or Dempster. Plus we already have a lot of good pitching prospects maturing another year. The surplus of arms isn't a bad thing it can only help us get closer to another World Series.
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Post by bmitchsox on Nov 8, 2013 17:20:09 GMT -5
Sign C Ruiz to 2 yr/16 mil Sign RP Nathan to 2 yr/25 Re-Sign Napoli to 2 yr/28 Sign Hudson or Halladay if healthy to 1yr/10-15 Sign Brendan Ryan to 1yr/ 4
Trade Dempster for a minor leaguer Trade Doubront, Webster, Brentz, Betts, Butler, Britton for Stanton
RF Victorino 2B Pedroia LF Stanton DH Ortiz 1B Napoli 3B Middlebrooks SS Bogaerts C Ruiz CF Bradley Jr
Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Peavy, Hudson/Halladay
Uehara, Nathan, Tazawa, Breslow, Miller, Workman, Bailey (or De La Rosa)
C Ross, OF/1B Nava, OF/1B Carp, OF Gomes, MIF Ryan
They need to make the push for stanton if they're going to lose ells. Wouldnt mind them trading Lackey if they can get a good prospect in return. I do think they could potentially have the best lineup in 3 or 4 years by FAR, to go along with all of their pitching. Im praying for ..
CF Bradley Jr 2B Pedroia SS Bogaerts LF Stanton 3B Middlebrooks RF Cecchini 1B Devers DH Nava C Swihart
Owens, Lester, Buchholz, Ranaudo, Barnes
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Post by sturmrider on Nov 8, 2013 17:22:35 GMT -5
I like JMEI's version 2.0 Red Sox a lot. Minor quibbles would probably try to find a trading partner for Dempster even if I had to pick up a little of the salary.I think Ramirez is a nice fit in a couple of ways. If Middlebrooks does not work out he could play 3rd and we could fill in first with some form of platoon. Maybe Hassan as one part. Have to think on this, but it opens up some possibilities and I believe that team could contend very nicely.
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Post by oleary25 on Nov 8, 2013 17:37:45 GMT -5
I think trading dempster now is a bad idea. He'll be worth more to this team as depth/ insurance & at the trade deadline if held. Plus half his salary will be paid and will be more appealing to teams.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 8, 2013 18:32:12 GMT -5
IMO the Sox will need better consistency behind Papi next year than Napoli will likely provide. Papi will be another year older and I wonder whether he can continue to be other worldly. Let's help him out. Ramirez? Maybe. Stanton....ahem!! If Nap stays OK but bat him down in the line-up. I am apparently among the dwindling that wants to keep Middlebrooks. That kind of firepower is not on every street corner. He is not a great or agile fielder..no Brooks he....but if Nap can play first why not Middlebrooks? I believe that his pitch rec. & selection will get better. He is what 25? I would love to have a home grown 30 hr. hitter.
No way I trade Andrew Miller. That guy is a weapon. I want him on my side. I see Britton as a successor to Breslow so I would want to keep him but this is not mandatory. Please hold onto Doubront. He looked like a different guy in the Series...Yes I know SSS. For me Peavy & Dempster are surplusage. Eat some salary and save some bucks too. Sign Tanaka!!!!
If I could add Stanton using my minor league prospects excepting Betts, JBJ, Cecchini, & Swihart, it's a go....altho I do like Webster.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 8, 2013 20:24:40 GMT -5
How about a different approach. With Ellsbury, Choo and Beltran being most peoples top 3 OFers who could draw interest from several teams why not be quick to go to one of the next best guys. Add Granderson who should come on a shorter 3 year deal and less AAV perhaps with a partial incentive base salary. He can handle LF full time, slide to CF if JBJr struggles, fill into RF if Victorino gets injured. He provides a power source and is a candidate for a bounce back. Even with reduced power I believe he could be a great value and raise his OBP under Boston's hitting philosophy and reduce his K rate back towards his mean. Adds some speed also.
If the team would like to avoid higher $ contracts I'd shoot for signing Granderson, even with the QO, then add Ruiz on a 2 year deal with a slight overpay to keep him away from Philly. Would also allow the team to put a package together for an age 24 to 28 hitter who has multiple years of control. This years market is screaming that the best value is to trade for a long term solution with the bat. Could be an OFer, 1B, 3B, SS if Bogaerts moves to 3B. Really anywhere but 2nd with Pedroia and C with Ruiz and Swihart and Vazquez nearly here. Essentially I'd follow jmei's 2nd scenario but add Granderson in addition to play LF and provide depth and an additional power bat.
1. (R/S) Victorino RF 2. (R) Pedroia 2B 3. (L) Ortiz DH 4. (R) Ramirez 1B (Backup 3B) 5. (L) Granderson LF (Backup CF/RF) 6. (R) Bogaerts SS 7. (R) Middlebrooks 3B 8. (R) Ruiz C 9. (L) Bradley Jr CF
I like that lineup and would require sacrificing a few expendable pieces for Ramirez but still allows for the possibility of packaging a AAA arm plus perhaps Betts and another piece to add another younger bat who could be part of the future but not require the team to force anything in the near future. The bench would consist of Carp, Nava, Gomes and Ross (2 Righties, 1 Lefty and a Switch hitter). Would still need another defensive utility IF under this scenario. If the team decides to pursue Tanaka I'd actually like it as well but would likely force the team to trade Peavy and/or Dempster to free up the salary but at a younger age I believe he has greater upside, doesn't require the loss of any prospects or picks, and results in prospects back from the trade. Maybe Peavy and Ranaudo for a bat under the Tanaka scenario. Pretty attractive to a pitching needy team.
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Post by floridaredsox on Nov 8, 2013 22:13:36 GMT -5
Trade Acquire OF Christian Yelich, from MIA for OF Daniel Nava and RP Alex Wilson Trade P Chris Hernandez to Mets for Ike Davis Trade Craig Breslow for prospects Sign SS Jhonny Peralta, to a two year, $14m contract 1st Chris Marrero to a minor league contract OF Raul Ibanez to a two year, $14m contract OF Franklin Gutierrez to a two year, $14m contract
Starting lineup RF Shane Victorino LF Raul Ibanez 2B Dustin Pedroia DH David Ortiz 1B Jhonny Peralta C Lavarnway / Butler 3B Will Middlebrooks SS Xander Bogaerts CF Jackie Bradley Jr.
Bench C David Ross UT Brock Holt LF Jonny Gomes CF Franklin Gutierrez
Rotation LHP Jon Lester RHP John Lackey RHP Clay Buchholz LHP Felix Doubront RHP Jake Peavy
Bullpen RHP Koji Uehara RHP Junichi Tazawa RHP Brandon Workman LHP Drake Britton LHP Andrew Miller RHP Brayan Villareal RHP Rubby De La Rosa *[LHP Franklin Morales] *[RHP] Ryan Dempster *[KP] Steven Wright
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 8, 2013 22:56:49 GMT -5
So you traded for Yelich then didn't put him on the roster? Can you explain the logic behind why Miami would want a 31 year old Nava and a borderline middle reliever for one of the best Young OF in baseball.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 9, 2013 0:13:25 GMT -5
Version 2.0, edited to reflect the diminished payroll space the Red Sox have this offseason. TradeAcquire 1B/3B Aramis Ramirez from MIL for RF Bryce Brentz and SP Justin Haley SignC Carlos Ruiz to a two year, $18m contract SS/2B Nick Punto to a one year, $3m contract RP Edward Mujica to a two year, $12m contract RP Ryan Madson to a one year, minor league contract with a split $2.5m salary (if he makes the major leagues) SS Munenori Kawasaki to a minor league contract OF Trevor Crowe to a minor league contract Starting lineup (versus RHP) RF Shane Victorino 2B Dustin Pedroia DH David Ortiz 1B Aramis Ramirez LF Daniel Nava SS Xander Bogaerts 3B Will Middlebrooks C Carlos Ruiz CF Jackie Bradley Jr. BenchC David Ross LF Jonny Gomes 1B Mike Carp SS/2B Nick Punto RotationLHP Jon Lester RHP John Lackey RHP Clay Buchholz LHP Felix Doubront RHP Jake Peavy BullpenRHP Koji Uehara RHP Junichi Tazawa RHP Edward Mujica LHP Craig Breslow LHP Andrew Miller RHP Brayan Villareal RHP Ryan Dempster *[LHP Franklin Morales] *[RHP Brandon Workman] *[LHP Drake Britton] (*assuming at least one Spring Training injury means one or more of the asterisked pitchers makes the Opening Day roster.) Total payroll increase: approximately $30mChanges-Had to cut a lot of cost and go with cheaper players. Ruiz at $9m a year is still great value for a guy I think will bounce back next year, while old friend Nick Punto is the ideal fit at backup infielder, considering his switch-hitting and his steady defense at multiple positions. I also kept Carp instead of signing Chris Young to save cash, though that means that Victorino needs to stay healthy and JBJ needs to produce as the depth option (slide over Nava to RF, Gomes in LF) is much weaker. -Aramis Ramirez is still a far better option than re-signing Napoli for three years at $14m+ per year, and the latest news should be an indication that Napoli isn't going to take much of a hometown discount. He only counts $12m versus the luxury tax, though he'll get paid $16m this year. He also backs up Middlebrooks in case he struggles. -The lineup is very right-handed heavy, but there's no way to get around that. -I threw in a couple depth minor league signings. Another guy to keep an eye on is Willie Bloomquist, but I didn't include him because I think he'll get a guaranteed ML deal, which the Red Sox don't have roster space to offer unless he replaces Punto (which is a bad idea because Bloomquist is versatile defensively but bad at all the positions he can play). -I still didn't trade any of the rotation depth, because the Red Sox still have an injury-prone rotation (Buchholz, Doubront, Peavy) and the pitching is going to have to help carry the team. I would consider trading Dempster or Peavy to open up salary space, but don't know who would take even most of their salaries and offer enough in return to make it worth it. I like this plan a lot.
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 9, 2013 1:04:02 GMT -5
Can you explain the logic behind why Miami would want a 31 year old Nava and a borderline middle reliever for one of the best Young OF in baseball.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 9, 2013 2:35:11 GMT -5
How about a different approach. With Ellsbury, Choo and Beltran being most peoples top 3 OFers who could draw interest from several teams why not be quick to go to one of the next best guys. Add Granderson who should come on a shorter 3 year deal and less AAV perhaps with a partial incentive base salary. He can handle LF full time, slide to CF if JBJr struggles, fill into RF if Victorino gets injured. He provides a power source and is a candidate for a bounce back. Even with reduced power I believe he could be a great value and raise his OBP under Boston's hitting philosophy and reduce his K rate back towards his mean. Adds some speed also. If the team would like to avoid higher $ contracts I'd shoot for signing Granderson, even with the QO, then add Ruiz on a 2 year deal with a slight overpay to keep him away from Philly. Would also allow the team to put a package together for an age 24 to 28 hitter who has multiple years of control. This years market is screaming that the best value is to trade for a long term solution with the bat. Could be an OFer, 1B, 3B, SS if Bogaerts moves to 3B. Really anywhere but 2nd with Pedroia and C with Ruiz and Swihart and Vazquez nearly here. Essentially I'd follow jmei's 2nd scenario but add Granderson in addition to play LF and provide depth and an additional power bat. 1. (R/S) Victorino RF 2. (R) Pedroia 2B 3. (L) Ortiz DH 4. (R) Ramirez 1B (Backup 3B) 5. (L) Granderson LF (Backup CF/RF) 6. (R) Bogaerts SS 7. (R) Middlebrooks 3B 8. (R) Ruiz C 9. (L) Bradley Jr CF I like that lineup and would require sacrificing a few expendable pieces for Ramirez but still allows for the possibility of packaging a AAA arm plus perhaps Betts and another piece to add another younger bat who could be part of the future but not require the team to force anything in the near future. The bench would consist of Carp, Nava, Gomes and Ross (2 Righties, 1 Lefty and a Switch hitter). Would still need another defensive utility IF under this scenario. If the team decides to pursue Tanaka I'd actually like it as well but would likely force the team to trade Peavy and/or Dempster to free up the salary but at a younger age I believe he has greater upside, doesn't require the loss of any prospects or picks, and results in prospects back from the trade. Maybe Peavy and Ranaudo for a bat under the Tanaka scenario. Pretty attractive to a pitching needy team. In addition I would look at adding a bullpen arm such as free agent Jesse Crain or gage the necessary pieces needed to trade for a player like Hochevar from KC. Hochevar will be a free agent after the 2014 season which should lessen the impact of prospects or assets needed to land him and KC should be willing to move him before losing him to free agency.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Nov 9, 2013 2:44:16 GMT -5
I know that this is more of "In my fantasy world the Sox would do this..." type of thread, but some of these proposals are just epically bad. Mike Stanton will not be traded for Doubront (mid rotation guy) Webster (very likely will never have the command to be anything special), Betts (still a rather unknown quantity), and spare change. The Marlins still have him for dirt cheap for 2 more seasons and he is only 23 years old. Think about that for a moment. Ike Davis has had a very bumpy and disappointing three seasons. He will likely never become a first division starter. But Chris Hernandez is a guy who if all things break right may become Chris Breslow. The Marlins do not need any more help in the outfield. They would have zero interest in Nava. Plus Yelich is one of the best outfield prospects in baseball, and if the Marlins value anything, it is young cost controlled players- so yeah not going to happen. Jhonny Peralta - First Basemen? Really. Yes he posted an impressive WRC+ of 123 in 2013 and a 122 WRC+ in 2012. But for his career that number is 102. Do you think at 34 that he is going to continue to perform better than he has for his entire career?
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Post by peskypole302 on Nov 9, 2013 2:57:31 GMT -5
I know that this is more of "In my fantasy world the Sox would do this..." type of thread, but some of these proposals are just epically bad. Mike Stanton will not be traded for Doubront (mid rotation guy) Webster (very likely will never have the command to be anything special), Betts (still a rather unknown quantity), and spare change. The Marlins still have him for dirt cheap for 2 more seasons and he is only 23 years old. Think about that for a moment. Ike Davis has had a very bumpy and disappointing three seasons. He will likely never become a first division starter. But Chris Hernandez is a guy who if all things break right may become Chris Breslow. The Marlins do not need any more help in the outfield. They would have zero interest in Nava. Plus Yelich is one of the best outfield prospects in baseball, and if the Marlins value anything, it is young cost controlled players- so yeah not going to happen. Jhonny Peralta - First Basemen? Really. Yes he posted an impressive WRC+ of 123 in 2013 and a 122 WRC+ in 2012. But for his career that number is 102. Do you think at 34 that he is going to continue to perform better than he has for his entire career? Stanton is 24 as of 11/8/13, but I agree with your point. Any Stanton trade starts and ends with the Marlins asking for Bogaerts. No thanks. WMB, JBJ, RDLR is where I'd start if I were the Sox FO. Hope for a counter offer and not a dial tone.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 9, 2013 3:46:35 GMT -5
Stanton has had several injuries very early on in his career just fyi. No way bogaerts is worth giving up for him.
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Post by rasimon on Nov 9, 2013 10:33:38 GMT -5
Texas is willing to trade one of their middle infielders: Ian Kinsler, Elvis Andrus, or Jurickson Profar. They need a 1bman. Assuming the Sox resign Napoli to something like 2/28 they could try to package Carp (sell high) plus something for Andrus or Profar. Andrus has 10/139 left on his contract. He has a good glove and hits ok for a SS. His last 3 years have generated WAR of 4.1, 3.7. 4.3 But since next year he will only be 25 it is possible that his bat could still develop. The contract is somewhat risky though. Profar has only been replacement level so far. But he will play next year at age 21. He is also much much cheaper than Andrus. I like taking a chance on Profar but Texas might be more willing to move Andrus. Under either scenario X would move to 3b and the Sox would be set at 2b, SS, 3b for the next decade. Cecchini could be groomed for 1b where hopefully he would be a Mark Grace-John Olerud like bat.
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Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2013 10:39:07 GMT -5
Would also allow the team to put a package together for an age 24 to 28 hitter who has multiple years of control. This years market is screaming that the best value is to trade for a long term solution with the bat. Could be an OFer, 1B, 3B, SS if Bogaerts moves to 3B. Really anywhere but 2nd with Pedroia and C with Ruiz and Swihart and Vazquez nearly here. The problem is that players like this rarely get moved, and for a reason-- they're at the point where they both represent proven production but are still relatively inexpensive. Teams don't just trade players like that, and when they do. Stanton is the white whale out there, but it's going to take a true bounty to acquire him, and the Red Sox will have to offer something more than the mish-mash of B+ starters (Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo, etc.) and cast-off parts to get him. I didn't include him in any of my offseason plans because I just have no idea whether he's actually available or what it would take to acquire him. But other than Stanton, there's not much else.
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Post by jdb on Nov 9, 2013 10:39:38 GMT -5
Trades
A Ramirez for Carp and Morales Hanigan for Brentz Peavy for Chris Stratton SF Dempster for salary relief
Signings
Eric Chavez 1 yr 5 mill Punto 1 yr 2 mill Hudson 2 yrs 20 mill Crain 2 yrs 10 mill
Victorino Rf Pedroia 2B Ortiz DH A Ram 1B Gomes/Nava LF Xander SS WMBs 3B Ross/Hanigan C JBJ CF
Bench Punto Chavez (LH to back up the corners gets about 70 games between the two) Gomes/Nava Ross/Hannigan
Lester, Buch, Lackey, Doubront, Hudson
Koji, Crain, Taz, Miller, Breslow, workman, Britton
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Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2013 10:44:00 GMT -5
Texas is willing to trade one of their middle infielders: Ian Kinsler, Elvis Andrus, or Jurickson Profar. They need a 1bman. Assuming the Sox resign Napoli to something like 2/28 they could try to package Carp (sell high) plus something for Andrus or Profar. Andrus has 10/139 left on his contract. He has a good glove and hits ok for a SS. His last 3 years have generated WAR of 4.1, 3.7. 4.3 But since next year he will only be 25 it is possible that his bat could still develop. The contract is somewhat risky though. Profar has only been replacement level so far. But he will play next year at age 21. He is also much much cheaper than Andrus. I like taking a chance on Profar but Texas might be more willing to move Andrus. Under either scenario X would move to 3b and the Sox would be set at 2b, SS, 3b for the next decade. Cecchini could be groomed for 1b where hopefully he would be a Mark Grace-John Olerud like bat. Carp is nowhere near enough to get even Andrus. The popular trade scenario has Andrus going to the Cardinals for either Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, or Carlos Martinez (note that the last two are currently relievers but are likely to be converted back to a starter in this scenario), and even that might require another prospect or two going to Texas. Carp might get you Kinsler, but not Andrus or Profar.
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Post by semperfisox on Nov 9, 2013 11:35:25 GMT -5
please tell me someone didn't suggest Carp for Andrus.
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Post by soxcentral on Nov 9, 2013 11:45:17 GMT -5
TradeAcquire 1B/3B Aramis Ramirez from MIL for RF Bryce Brentz and SP Justin Haley I'd alter this a bit to make it A Ram + cash ($2m??) for Brentz and Alex Wilson. Frees another 40-man spot, and the better arm balances out the cash infusion which will help us to sign a veteran reliever.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 9, 2013 13:08:25 GMT -5
Doubront could have more value then we think. That being said, I like him a lot and this he CAN be more then a mid/ back rotation guy if he commits himself.
I'm still a little surprised by the Stanton enfatuation. He's a huge power guy but what else does he bring other then injuries the last few years? Is he a very good overall hitter? What's his speed and D like? Really asking, haven't seen much of him, but his numbers don't impress me outside of power. 28% k rate that's consistent doesn't concern anyone? Napoli gets killed for a high K rate...
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