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Post by texs31 on Feb 20, 2014 16:39:41 GMT -5
I agree with your points but . . . :
1) Bass is good enough to help you win games against teams you might otherwise lose to (I didn't see the game but the stats suggest he played a role in being even close to Phoenix last night)
2) The logjam at PF/C cuts into time for Sully, KO and even Faverani who all need minutes to develop.
In light of no trades, I'd actually explore buying out Hump. He can go play for a playoff team and then, if he really wants back in (and the C's like the idea) they can discuss it in the offseason.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 20, 2014 17:31:43 GMT -5
He can help them win some games but they are most likely finishing in the same range regardless. I also don't think he's affecting Sullly at all, maybe KO, but not too much.
I wouldn't buy out Hump, but you can just waive him. Not a bad idea.
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Post by jmei on Feb 20, 2014 17:56:43 GMT -5
They would definitely prefer to buy out Humpries (a procedure by which Humpries agrees to give up some of his salary in return for being released) instead of waiving him. Noone is going to claim Humpries' contract on waivers, while even getting a little salary relief through a buyout means the Celtics have the potential to add an interesting D-League or other developmental player down the stretch with the potential to keep them around next year (they've done this with guys like Shavlik Randolph and Terrence Williams, for instance).
And keeping Bass definitely has disadvantages. He's better than most of the other PF options (especially since he's a pretty good defender, both individually and within the team scheme), which means they might win an extra game or two (which will matter, since there's a tight grouping between SAC/LAL/BOS/UTA). Every minute he plays is a minute Olynyk doesn't, and he's averaged 26 minutes/game over the last 10 games (and I don't see Stevens really cutting his minutes that much going forward).
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 20, 2014 18:32:02 GMT -5
Agreed there is the described downside, but I'm not sure I agree giving up an asset is worth saving a win or two and I don't think it's retarding Knock-out's development, especially if you walk away from Hump.
Regarding the buyout, I mixed up NHL buyout rules with NBA rules. If you could buy out or waive Hump, that's a solid move. He seems very happy here so a buyout might not be possible. This is a guy who's life was a circus for years. Laying low is quite possibly a lot more appealing then jumping into the spot light again at this point, but who knows.. Either works the same longterm.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 20, 2014 20:21:30 GMT -5
The thing is, if you had taken away some of the peripheral players around Rondo, the C's would have gotten exponentially worse. Rondo is an elite facilitator, not an elite scorer, and if you took away guys like Bass and Green, it would give Rondo fewer options to facilitate to (i.e. Rondo giving Jeff Green an open 3 versus Rondo giving Gerald Wallace an open 3).
At the start of the 2nd half of last night's game, the first 4 possessions were a Rondo drive and dish to Bass for an open mid-range jumper, a Rondo drive and dish to Bass for another open mid-range jumper, a Rondo turnover, and then a pass by Rondo when the defense was over-committing to him to an open Green in the corner for 3. If Rondo doesn't have the guys to make those shots, then he is a much lesser player and the Celtics a much worse team. That sequence just screamed to me that you could have made the team much worse by trading away some of the pieces that don't seem like difference-makers now, but, come lottery time, could mean the difference between a legit shot at a top-3 pick and a 7th or 8th selection.
The Celtics are in a good spot for the long-term with the development of Sully, Olynyk, Bradley, and even Pressey in addition to all of their 1st round picks, but I thought that they missed an opportunity to significantly increase their odds in the lottery and add to their assets by losing more games and getting into a better draft position.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2014 8:14:54 GMT -5
We can't say they missed an opportunity, because we don't know what options were there. We know buying out Hump, is a legit option so if they decline to do that then we can say its a missed opportunity to open up PT and get worse.
Jeff Green is not a desirable player around the league. His contract was bad from the moment it was signed an no contender wants it for this year and the next 2. I don't think any contender added any real extra money this year let alone next. Indiana made easily the biggest move an it was an expiring deal and they saved money this year. The fact no one added salary should tell us that Danny had no one to trade with. No first rd picks were traded either.
This is why I suggested the C's would have to include a first to get Okafor's expiring deal in a trade for Bass and Green. A team needs a reason to take on Green's 9m. Bass should be a lot more tradable at the draft or next year with an expiring deal. The $8-9m players are very hard to trade.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2014 9:40:07 GMT -5
Just to add to this, I think the real issue on Green is the PO for 15-16. My all accounts, teams were avoiding taking on salary for that year in the hopes of saving room for that free agent class.
My new dream scenario is for 2 of New York, Charlotte and Detroit to overtake Atlanta and Brooklyn in the playoff seeding (not that outlandish, actually).
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2014 9:52:46 GMT -5
That would be nice. Highly unlikely but incredibly nice.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2014 10:04:45 GMT -5
Cleveland and Detroit are only 4 games back (and Cleveland was one of the few teams that got better). Not sure that's HIGHLY unlikely but that's probably just an argument over semantics.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2014 13:03:52 GMT -5
It may not be highly unlikely for one team to catch one of them but for both to do so is highly improbable but not impossible.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2014 15:13:26 GMT -5
Fair enough
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2014 12:22:38 GMT -5
Key loss last night after leading by 11 in the fourth vs a team you are competing against for ping-pong balls. Coupled with an Orlando W makes it even sweeter.
Huge game vs Sactown tonight. They are rested, C's on second night of back to back on West Coast. Rondo should sit. They cannot win tonight if they want any hope at getting top 3 position or even top 4.
Need an 0-fer on this trip. Utah would be another sweet loss.
And this whole discussion is what sucks about the NBA but I still can't get enough.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 22, 2014 16:32:53 GMT -5
Sully (head), Bradley and Rondo out tonight.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2014 17:22:16 GMT -5
That's big time
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 22, 2014 17:58:26 GMT -5
With the 6ers impressive tank job, Milwaukee and Philly are the favorites for the top two spots in the lottery. The Celtics are looking like they will fall in the 3 to 7 range. Here are the odds of landing a top 3 pick from those slots:
3 - 46.9%
4 - 37.8%
5 - 29.2%
6 - 21.5%
7 - 15.0%
Here's hoping they can get in the "top" four!
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 23, 2014 0:29:04 GMT -5
Thought they were going to blow this one.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 23, 2014 13:53:47 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 23, 2014 20:29:56 GMT -5
I'm not exactly sure why the Celtics won't buy out Hump. Maybe they will and they want Sully to be ok before they do, but it doesn't make sense if they don't. If they didn't have him, last night wouldn't have been close.
Texs, I really hate you for bring up both Atlanta and Brooklyn missing the playoffs. I'm spending way too much emotion and time looking at the chances of that happening. NYK pretty much killed all chances of that happening by losing to Atl last night, but I'm sure I'll be annoyed and disappointed along the way here while continue to watch for that. Damn you
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Post by jmei on Feb 23, 2014 21:21:38 GMT -5
Humphries just might not want to be bought out. He's getting some decent playing time with the Celtics (18 min/game in his last 10 games), which he probably wouldn't match with any contender who picks him up. Now that the Clippers have picked up Glen Davis, there aren't a ton of contenders who desperately need a frontcourt reserve. Humphries has also stated multiple times on the record that he wants to stay in Boston and maybe even re-sign here next year. |
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Feb 23, 2014 21:30:23 GMT -5
They might want to re-sign Hump or keep open a sign-and-trade in the off-season and they could value that more than winning a few games at his expense this season. If they buy him out, he might be gone for good and, although that's not a life-or-death blow to the Celtics attempted rise back into contention, it doesn't help your team to lose someone who can contribute (17.85 PER!!!) as long as the contract isn't prohibitive to what you are trying to do. If the C's hit a snag in their rebuild, then he should be an easy piece to ship to a contender for other assets or something else depending on what the team needs at the time.
I don't buy that he is cutting into the time of the young guys because Kelly played one minute more against the Kings even though Sully missed the game then he did against the Lakers. Hump is really only cutting into the time of Anthony and Bass.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 24, 2014 8:32:35 GMT -5
Then you can waive him. Buyout or waiving is just a technicality. The only reason to keep him is if you think his veteran leadership is good for the kids development. The only caveat is if waiving him when he's effective and doesn't want to be waived is against some unwritten rule. I see little reason why you'd resign him after this sason. Only a one year deal could make any sense to the team and he's proven to be worth way more then that. I suppose there's a sign and trade situation that could present itself, but I'm not so sure anyone would give much up for him and you need to take contracts back in return.
There are plenty of contenders that could still use him on short money. Almost any of them could. Miami, OKC, and PHOE are three. He'd be a vet minimum signing.
Maybe they like the culture of the group and value that too much to waive him and care about a bottom 3/4 record.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 25, 2014 0:06:20 GMT -5
Could the Celtics just stay out west for the rest of the year?
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 25, 2014 15:24:41 GMT -5
That's the problem with competing against 3 Western Conference teams. I still think Utah and Sactown have a lot more talent but it's going to be hard to stay worse then them and the Lakers just blow so that's almost inevitable. Going to be hard to stay down.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 25, 2014 18:52:06 GMT -5
Could be REAL interesting to see how Brad (Danny?) manages the roster game to game. Over the remainder of the season, Boston opponents remaining strength of schedule is just over .500 (.504 to be precise). The Lakers (.558), Jazz (.493) and Kings (tied at .504) are on their heals. And yes, I did create a spreadsheet to track this (insert laughter here).
One thing that helps Boston is that some of our easier games remaining (3/12 - NY, 4/5 - Det and 4/12 - Cle) are on the 2nd halves of back to backs (so, we'll see if Rajon continues to skip those).
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 26, 2014 10:19:51 GMT -5
That makes me feel better. We're done with Orlando and Milwaukee, but have two games left against Phillie who may not win again with that roster.
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