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Red Sox sign Chris Capuano for $2.25m with incentives
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Post by joshv02 on Feb 21, 2014 8:03:54 GMT -5
I don't think it is necessarily the case that they start Workman in AAA. Assuming health, construct a 25 man roster where this makes sense.
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Post by lyle143 on Feb 21, 2014 8:08:11 GMT -5
Great, low cost depth signing. He has potential to help as a spot starter, swing an or loogy. Personally love the consistent moves. Sox playing like smart investors, looking to build a portfolio of assets with common attributes. All do not have to be home runs... Just look at the overall collection performance over time.
Agree and think Morales is the right comp. That said, my mind went immediately to the worst case comp -- if he becomes just a loogy. Would everyone rather have Matt Thornton for 2 years at $7M?
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 21, 2014 8:16:54 GMT -5
Great, low cost depth signing. He has potential to help as a spot starter, swing an or loogy. Personally love the consistent moves. Sox playing like smart investors, looking to build a portfolio of assets with common attributes. All do not have to be home runs... Just look at the overall collection performance over time. Agree and think Morales is the right comp. That said, my mind went immediately to the worst case comp -- if he becomes just a loogy. Would everyone rather have Matt Thornton for 2 years at $7M? 100% agree. The Sox look like they have a plan and it appears a smart one. I like the kinds of consistent moves they have been making the past several years.
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Post by elguapo on Feb 21, 2014 8:34:48 GMT -5
If Capuano struggles he turns into a very good underpaid LOOGY to keep or trade. I would love to ban that term, or at least its misuse. There is no sense in making Capuano a LOOGY, a Lefthanded One Out GuY. I think he can be a successful lefty reliever, but bringing him in to face one lefthanded hitter would be a waste. He's been pitching his whole career against righties, and as jmei pointed out, his splits are favorable vs LHH but not particularly concerning vs RHH. And aside from the annoyance of a raft of extra pitching changes for one-out relievers, unless you have a true specialist, it's probably a poor use of roster space and poor bullpen construction.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2014 8:55:30 GMT -5
I can't believe this is generating such a difference of opinion. Cap won't drastically affect the young guys in AAA. None of them other then maybe Workman are ready for starting roles in Boston. However, the team doesn't seem to think Workman is truly ready to start in Boston either, but if a guy goes down in spring training and Workman earns the starts over Cap, they will probably give them to him. There is nothing wrong with making a kid earn a spot.
I don't disagree with those who say Workman could be good in the pen and possibly more of a late inning guy then a 6/7. However, there are a lot of other guys, veterans, who we say the same things about. NEWS FLASH: Great problem to have and a necessary one. In APRIL would you rather:
A) Bullpen stacked with Veterans who can all pitch effectively as either closers or setup men PLUS the young kid you think can do the same stretched out AAA still developing
Or
B) still a stacked pen, but the young kid in a 6/7 lower usage role and missing one of the veterans who could have been just as effective or close to as effective as the young kid you dumped him to make room for?
Not signing a guy like Cap to this deal is similar to cutting him.
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 21, 2014 8:56:37 GMT -5
I'd look at Capuano almost solely in terms of April/May depth, meaning if one of our 5 starters breaks camp on the DL who would you be comfortable with taking a regular turn in the rotation right away? What if 2 starters end up on the DL sometime in the first 60 games?
Workman maybe, Webster maybe, the rest I am not comfortable with starting the year in Boston. And even those two are best served not breaking camp with the big league rotation. Workman's greatest value to me is in the pen, and Webster needs to show consistency in AAA first.
In that context, I like this signing.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Feb 21, 2014 9:03:57 GMT -5
1. "If he struggles" 2. "or trade" 3. we can release him if need be with no consequence
Sorry that you you get "annoyed" with modern bullpen management.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Feb 21, 2014 9:52:14 GMT -5
I'm not optimistic that Capuano is going to help much. I don't have faith in AAAA pitchers moving to the al east.
The one upside I can see is that for Workman, Webster et all this will push back their innings again into the latter part of the season.
I for one have more faith in the prospects than a 36 year old averaging 5 inning starts last year. Let him pitch early in the year, keep Workmans innings low, then the mid year impact is from within at the trade deadline.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 21, 2014 10:10:15 GMT -5
1. "If he struggles" 2. "or trade" 3. we can release him if need be with no consequence Sorry that you you get "annoyed" with modern bullpen management. The scare quotes are killin me, man.
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Post by elguapo on Feb 21, 2014 10:37:51 GMT -5
For a few reference points, Breslow averaged about 3 outs per game in 2013, similar to the team's RH relievers, while even Miller averaged 2.5 outs, which stretches the boundary of what could be reasonably considered a LOOGY. Javier Lopez, a true lefty specialist, has averaged 1.6 outs/game over the past two seasons, 2.0 career. Our old friends Tony Fossas & Mike Myers averaged 2.2 & 1.8 for their respective careers. In his few stints as a reliever, Capuano has been used in long relief, averaging nearly 5 outs/game, and that seems to be his most likely bullpen role.
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Post by jdb on Feb 21, 2014 10:46:18 GMT -5
I'd look at Capuano almost solely in terms of April/May depth, meaning if one of our 5 starters breaks camp on the DL who would you be comfortable with taking a regular turn in the rotation right away? What if 2 starters end up on the DL sometime in the first 60 games? Workman maybe, Webster maybe, the rest I am not comfortable with starting the year in Boston. And even those two are best served not breaking camp with the big league rotation. Workman's greatest value to me is in the pen, and Webster needs to show consistency in AAA first. In that context, I like this signing. My thought as well. By mid season one of our AAA arms could be a better option if there's an injury if one happens earlier Capuano gives us a decent replacement. Even then by the end of spring a AAA arm could better but that's not guaranteed.
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Post by ramireja on Feb 21, 2014 11:00:51 GMT -5
Apologies if this point has been made already, but remember that the only locks for the bullpen assuming health are Uehara, Tazawa, Mujica, Breslow, Miller and Badenhop. Capuano doesn't have to be the automatic 6th SP. If one of our front 5 goes down and the Sox feel that Workman or Webster represent a stronger option that Capuano, they can call one of them up while leaving Capuano in the bullpen. That spot creates a little more flexibility than people seem to be implying.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2014 11:04:58 GMT -5
Apologies if this point has been made already, but remember that the only locks for the bullpen assuming health are Uehara, Tazawa, Mujica, Breslow, Miller and Badenhop. Capuano doesn't have to be the automatic 6th SP. If one of our front 5 goes down and the Sox feel that Workman or Webster represent a stronger option that Capuano, they can call one of them up while leaving Capuano in the bullpen. That spot creates a little more flexibility than people seem to be implying. I've said this before as well, but this assumes that Capuano can stay relatively stretched out in long relief. It probably wouldn't be difficult if we had Dice-K in the rotation, but hopefully, he's not needed often.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Feb 21, 2014 11:20:54 GMT -5
Apologies if this point has been made already, but remember that the only locks for the bullpen assuming health are Uehara, Tazawa, Mujica, Breslow, Miller and Badenhop. Capuano doesn't have to be the automatic 6th SP. If one of our front 5 goes down and the Sox feel that Workman or Webster represent a stronger option that Capuano, they can call one of them up while leaving Capuano in the bullpen. That spot creates a little more flexibility than people seem to be implying. Plus later, if 1+ of the hot starting prospects shows up well in AAA and then you need a starter, they could be called up for Fenway starts and Capuano could be called up for road starts and/or starts against left-hand-heavy teams. Extreme depth allows that type of pitching platoon.
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Post by patrmac04 on Feb 21, 2014 11:55:58 GMT -5
David Cameron ?@dcameronfg 41s $2.3M for Capuano is hilarious. 29 teams just missed the boat. Last three years: Capuano: 4.15 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 3.79 xFIP (490 IP, age 35) Ubaldo Jimenez: 4.45 ERA, 4.04 FIP, 4.09 xFIP (542.7 IP, age 30) Ervin Santana: 3.85 ERA, 4.45 FIP, 4.00 xFIP (617.2 IP, age 31) Ricky Nolasco: 4.29 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 3.76 xFIP (596.1 IP, age 31) Jason Vargas: 4.04 ERA, 4.32 FIP, 4.41 xFIP (568.1 IP, age 31) Contracts received in free agency: Capuano: one year, $2.25m guaranteed, $2.75m in incentives Jimenez: four years, $50m (draft pick given up) Santana: ? Nolasco: four years, $49m Vargas: four years, $32m Capuano is certainly significantly older and less durable, but this is just a ridiculous bargain. He fits perfectly with what the Red Sox need right now: not the most reliable guy, but capable of average to above-average innings when he's on the mound. +1 As always, great analysis jmei. When you lay it out like this, it just makes me wonder how the Sox do it time and time again. They have really evolved into one of the smartest teams in baseball and have the hardware to prove it with 30% of the WS titles in the past decade. I thought I would miss Theo, but I think BC is doing a better job than Theo did from what I have seen so far.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 21, 2014 13:47:30 GMT -5
The Capuano signing makes great sense. I don't know if his pitching will translate as positively from the NL West to the AL East, but at this point I would think he'd be a much better option than Webster early on as a starter and at this point it's not a given that Workman is necessarily better than Capuano. And I frankly don't think it is an either/or proposition. Pitchers are going to get hurt and the Sox are going to carry 12 pitchers. If Buchholz or Peavy go down early Capuano is excellent insurance, the kind that gives the Sox a chance to be competitive as opposed to 2011 when the Sox were reaching down for Kyle Weiland to help them and had no other options at their disposal.
If Webster or one of Barnes, Ranaudo, Workman, or Owen are knocking down the door in June or July or even later and there's an open spot in the rotation and Capuano is merely alright, they can move Capuano to the bullpen and he can be an effective long man. Injuries happen there too.
Worst case scenario is Capuano isn't that good. If that's the case the Sox didn't exactly spend a ton of money signing him.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 21, 2014 14:17:05 GMT -5
Apologies if this point has been made already, but remember that the only locks for the bullpen assuming health are Uehara, Tazawa, Mujica, Breslow, Miller and Badenhop. Capuano doesn't have to be the automatic 6th SP. If one of our front 5 goes down and the Sox feel that Workman or Webster represent a stronger option that Capuano, they can call one of them up while leaving Capuano in the bullpen. That spot creates a little more flexibility than people seem to be implying. I've said this before as well, but this assumes that Capuano can stay relatively stretched out in long relief. It probably wouldn't be difficult if we had Dice-K in the rotation, but hopefully, he's not needed often. This may be true later in the season, but in April especially it won't be that hard to keep him stretched out. The team has a lot of games, and the starters won't be able to handle the same load as they would be a little later in the season. So I suspect there will be a few 2-3 inning stints available, if he can get the outs.
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Post by TheCerebral1 on Feb 21, 2014 18:24:31 GMT -5
It's not only a great depth signing, but someone who has been amazingly consistent for the last few seasons. He's a perfect pen/stretch arm.
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Post by moonstone2 on Feb 21, 2014 19:11:43 GMT -5
1. "If he struggles" 2. "or trade" 3. we can release him if need be with no consequence Sorry that you you get "annoyed" with modern bullpen management. Well there is an obvious consequence if he isn't any good. If he pitches poorly in the games he appears in, the Sox are more likely to lose those games. Further a bad pitching appearance can cause stress to a bullpen for several days. Because he has a guaranteed deal the Red Sox are almost obligated to have him start the season in the majors. I can't imagine he'd get fewer than ten appearances no matter how bad he pitches. He's the kind of guy that you would cut if he gets bombed in the spring. But because he has a guaranteed deal, he'll be pitching in real games.
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 21, 2014 19:42:58 GMT -5
1. "If he struggles" 2. "or trade" 3. we can release him if need be with no consequence Sorry that you you get "annoyed" with modern bullpen management. Well there is an obvious consequence if he isn't any good. If he pitches poorly in the games he appears in, the Sox are more likely to lose those games. Further a bad pitching appearance can cause stress to a bullpen for several days. Because he has a guaranteed deal the Red Sox are almost obligated to have him start the season in the majors. I can't imagine he'd get fewer than ten appearances no matter how bad he pitches. He's the kind of guy that you would cut if he gets bombed in the spring. But because he has a guaranteed deal, he'll be pitching in real games. Yea won't he be coming in when their in the 5th inning and 4 runs down anyway? Seems to me in his role right now he will be asked to keep a game honest after the starter gets his rear kicked. No big deal if he can't hold it to a 5 run deficit. Now if he was coming in about the the 7th or so with a one run lead on down one it might be different but somehow I don't think that is going to be his role, do you?
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 22, 2014 11:38:27 GMT -5
@chriscotillo: Source: Chris Capuano passes #RedSox physical, making deal official."
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 22, 2014 18:10:07 GMT -5
Two things, which surprised me by proving to be related.
1) Capuano has some interesting big splits besides his platoon split of 619 / 808.
By batting order position, give or take a few points:
1&2: 692 3&4: 1002 5-8: 753
This is indeed a guy who loses value against better lineups. But this split is much more important for late inning relievers than for starters, because of leverage.
Times around the batting order: 707, 757, 867.
This is a guy who should be much better pitching out of the pen, especially so if you can keep him away from elite RHB. As a starter, a quick hook will be helpful.
By month: 718, 716, 753, 783, 809, 816.
There's a real possibility that a familiarity split is underlying this, since it almost certainly underlies the previous split. If so, changing leagues and hence facing guys who have barely seen him before may work in his favor.
Finally, he has the most neutral challenge / pitch-around splits I've ever seen, which means that his alteration of approach according to base-out situation is precisely the average of everyone else. I don't think that means anything, except for being ironic given the above.
2) I always thought that the overall team pitching depth made an eventual trade of either Peavy or Dempster more likely than not. Signing Capuano restores that situation, with the big difference being that Capuano should have much more trade value than Dempster would have.
There has always been a scenario where by, say, the end of May or early June, it has become evident that the 5th best starter is in the organization is not Jake Peavy, but Allen Webster, Rubby De La Rosa (whom I believe will be in the PawSox rotation), Brandon Workman, or (much less likely) even Anthony Ranaudo or Matt Barnes. With five candidates to surpass Peavy, the odds of this happening are interestingly high.
With Dempster gone, trading Peavy to upgrade the rotation to whoever the stud kid is would be a risky move in terms of depth. Adding Capuano makes such a move much easier to justify.
And furthermore, imagine it's June and you've got a couple of kids in AAA who seem irresistably ready for MLB. And imagine that Capuano has been smartly used as a 2-inning reliever and in a couple of spot starts. All of the splits I just cited are likely to make Capuano look tremendously desirable to other clubs (much more so than he ought to be), given his salary. So you have the option of trading him or Peavy.
It's really hard not to view this signing as one likely to pay off well. Just don't let him face the likes of Cabrera.
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Post by moonstone2 on Feb 22, 2014 19:55:24 GMT -5
First off the Red Sox have a good chance to win some of those games especially in Fenway. As you recall they won game 2 of the LCS down 4 later than the fifth. Secondly even if they don't, if he spits the bit in those games they stress the rest of the bullpen. Finally, you know that he will have to end up pitching in some higher leverage situations just to keep the rest of the bullpen rested or in extra inning games.
Look it's obviously not a death knell if your 6th reliever sucks. But to say that it doesn't matter is well ummm wrong.
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Post by moonstone2 on Feb 22, 2014 20:22:19 GMT -5
Last three years: Capuano: 4.15 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 3.79 xFIP (490 IP, age 35) Ubaldo Jimenez: 4.45 ERA, 4.04 FIP, 4.09 xFIP (542.7 IP, age 30) Ervin Santana: 3.85 ERA, 4.45 FIP, 4.00 xFIP (617.2 IP, age 31) Ricky Nolasco: 4.29 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 3.76 xFIP (596.1 IP, age 31) Jason Vargas: 4.04 ERA, 4.32 FIP, 4.41 xFIP (568.1 IP, age 31) Contracts received in free agency: Capuano: one year, $2.25m guaranteed, $2.75m in incentives Jimenez: four years, $50m (draft pick given up) Santana: ? Nolasco: four years, $49m Vargas: four years, $32m Capuano is certainly significantly older and less durable, but this is just a ridiculous bargain. He fits perfectly with what the Red Sox need right now: not the most reliable guy, but capable of average to above-average innings when he's on the mound. +1 As always, great analysis jmei. When you lay it out like this, it just makes me wonder how the Sox do it time and time again. They have really evolved into one of the smartest teams in baseball and have the hardware to prove it with 30% of the WS titles in the past decade. I thought I would miss Theo, but I think BC is doing a better job than Theo did from what I have seen so far. Right only Jimei could possibly argue with a straight face that Chris Capuano belongs in the same conversation with Ubaldo Jimenez.
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Post by jmei on Feb 22, 2014 22:57:44 GMT -5
Right only Jimei could possibly argue with a straight face that Chris Capuano belongs in the same conversation with Ubaldo Jimenez. Steamer, 2014: Jimenez: 4.24 ERA, 4.08 FIP Capuano: 4.01 ERA, 3.93 FIP Oliver, 2014: Jimenez: 4.43 ERA, 4.04 FIP Capuano: 4.06 ERA, 4.09 FIP ZiPS, 2014: Jimenez: 3.64 ERA, 3.67 FIP Capuano: 4.11 ERA, 3.72 FIP CAIRO v.0.1, 2014: Jimenez: 3.75 ERA, 3.79 FIP Capuano: 3.79 ERA, 3.68 FIP
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