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2014-15 offseason discussion
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Post by bryce on Sept 19, 2014 12:02:25 GMT -5
I'd like to see the following: C - Vazquez 1B - Napoli 2B - Pedroia SS - Bogaerts 3B - Betts LF - Cespedes CF - Castillo RF - Victorino DH - Ortiz SP - Lester SP - Shields SP - Buchholz SP - Kelly SP - Barnes CL - Uehara BP - Miller BP - Tazawa BP - Ranaudo BP - Layne BP - Webster BP - De la Rossa BE - Holt BE - Bradley, Jr BE - Ross BE - Middlebrooks BE - Craig Basically, I think they need to develop some of the young talent. I think that many of the young pitchers would be better suited out of the bullpen for now. Betts is a quick twitch athlete and I think he has enough of an arm to play 3rd. Middlebrooks and Craig don't have enough value at this point to try to trade them. Holt and Betts can play multiple positions and I think that Bradley should start 2-3 times/week to rest the OF and then be used late in games for his defense. If Koji doesn't look like his old self, I would move him out of the closer role (perhaps slot Barnes in there) and bring up Owens after a few weeks. Righties are going to eat up this lineup. We need another lefty bat or two. You can say that again!!!!!
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Post by MLBDreams on Sept 19, 2014 12:41:29 GMT -5
I'd like to see the following: SP - Lester SP - Shields BP - Miller It won't happen unless the Yankees gift the $300+ million off season shopping spree card to the Red Sox.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 19, 2014 13:31:14 GMT -5
I'd like to see the following: SP - Lester SP - Shields BP - Miller It won't happen unless the Yankees gift the $300+ million off season shopping spree card to the Red Sox. I expect the Yankees to have a world of issues to deal with this off season. How can they sign these guys and Robertson?
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Post by bmitchsox on Sept 20, 2014 2:40:43 GMT -5
Trade Owens, Margot, Rodriguez, Johnson or Barnes, Middlebrooks for Stanton Sign Lester, Shields, Miller, Martin (or FA) Trade Napoli for a prospect
RF Betts 2B Pedroia 1B Stanton DH Ortiz LF Cespedes SS Bogaerts CF Castillo 3B Cecchini C Vazquez
Holt - Bradley - Craig - Martin
Lester - Shields - Buccholz - De La Rosa - Kelly (Ranaudo 6th man)
Uehara - Tazawa - Miller - Mujica - Workman - Escobar - Layne
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 20, 2014 6:48:45 GMT -5
I've got to believe Napoli's finger affected him this year for much longer than he was on the DL. Not saying he needs surgery, just that the bone probably never had a chance to completely heal with all the use it got in at bats, especially. Here's hoping the both fully heal in the off season. If what you believe is true, the team has a big problem with its medical staff. With its full time professional help, its imaging equipment and its association with Beth Israel, mistakes like this should not occur. Fast backward to the misdiagnosed Ellsbury injury and there's real cause for concern. Unless Mike was not being candid with the training staff about his hand injury, it should have recommended that he be shut down until the problem is fixed.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 20, 2014 9:56:40 GMT -5
I think most athletes will play through pain. But that it just wasn't enough to keep him down, doesn't mean it wasn't enough were perhaps his grip or feel for the bat still was off. Just a guess.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,966
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 20, 2014 11:23:33 GMT -5
B-Ref has added Castillo's money to its 2015 payroll projection and now puts the RS at $123.8 million. That puts them $65.2 million short of $189 million. But keep in mind, they'd prefer to start the season a few million below the threshold to give them room for in-season acquisitions.
So, assuming that they have about $60 million to play with (if they intend to stay below $189 million) I'd like to see them make an early offer to Lester of 6 years/$22 million and tell him they need a quick answer. If he comes back with a counter-offer of 6 years/$23 million, do it.
Would Shields take 4 years/$17 million? With Lester and Shields, they would have burned $39-$40 million at those numbers.
They can then use prospects as trade pieces to upgrade the offense at 3B or an OF spot. Needless to say Stanton would be the top target, but that's probably a long shot. I'd be happy to put a subsidized Cespedes and his .290 OBP in a trade as a pot sweetener if we're adding power elsewhere.
I think another underrated need is for a LH-hitting catcher. I don't like Vasquez and his 52 OBP-plus playing every day. He's a marginal prospect at best. It shouldn't cost much in prospects to get a lefty-hitting platoon C.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 20, 2014 11:29:53 GMT -5
I've got to believe Napoli's finger affected him this year for much longer than he was on the DL. Not saying he needs surgery, just that the bone probably never had a chance to completely heal with all the use it got in at bats, especially. Here's hoping the both fully heal in the off season. If what you believe is true, the team has a big problem with its medical staff. With its full time professional help, its imaging equipment and its association with Beth Israel, mistakes like this should not occur. Fast backward to the misdiagnosed Ellsbury injury and there's real cause for concern. Unless Mike was not being candid with the training staff about his hand injury, it should have recommended that he be shut down until the problem is fixed. Who says it's a mistake? Athletes play through injuries all the time. The job of a medical staff isn't to pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%, if it was the league would shut down sometime around early august every year due to lack of players. If anything it's the job of a medical staff to help players stay on the field despite nagging injuries.
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Post by tonyj1973 on Sept 20, 2014 13:26:52 GMT -5
On Maeda......based on the scouting reports I have read......I am going to say he's a back end guy. The red sox have plenty of those. Sorry but I have not watched Webster, Workman, De La Rosa, Barnes nor Ranaudo in World Baseball Classic. Maeda showed his potencial in WBC. And taking just stats this kid is a step behind Tanaka & that means a lot. He will cost just money and is 26 now ( 04.01.1988 ) I think he will be a nice adquisition. Sox should try for two out of Lester, Scherzer, Shields & Hammels and try back-end rotation with Kelly & Buch with the best of Webster, Barnes, Owens, Escobar, Johnson & Rodriguez waiting. I think sox need more lefhanded hitters and become a younger and healthier team. Nap doesn´t contribute to this, Vic neither. From C sox need more production and keep the defense and from 3B they absolutely need more production. Sandoval would be nice until Devers is ready C: Vazquez & FA or ( Lava or Swihart ) 1B: Nap ( IF HE CAN KEEP HEALTHY IF NOT TRADE HIM ). 2B: Pedey ( HAS TO PRODUCE IF NOT HE BECOMES IN A EXPENSIVE AND PRONE INJURIE PLAYER ) 3B: Sandoval for 3 years SS: Boegarts LF: Cespedes CF: Castillo RF: Betts 4TH OF/1B: Nava Utility: Holt DH: Papi SP: Lester - Shields - Maeda - Kelly - Buch RP: Miller - Tazawa - Uehara - Workman - Barnes - Layne - Webster - De la Rosa I agree this line up is too right handed & seems to need a power hitter due to there is a big gap betwen Nap´s producyion and Abreu´s production for example.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 20, 2014 14:52:56 GMT -5
On Maeda......based on the scouting reports I have read......I am going to say he's a back end guy. The red sox have plenty of those. Sorry but I have not watched Webster, Workman, De La Rosa, Barnes nor Ranaudo in World Baseball Classic. Maeda showed his potencial in WBC. And taking just stats this kid is a step behind Tanaka & that means a lot. He will cost just money and is 26 now ( 04.01.1988 ) I think he will be a nice adquisition. Sox should try for two out of Lester, Scherzer, Shields & Hammels and try back-end rotation with Kelly & Buch with the best of Webster, Barnes, Owens, Escobar, Johnson & Rodriguez waiting. I think sox need more lefhanded hitters and become a younger and healthier team. Nap doesn´t contribute to this, Vic neither. From C sox need more production and keep the defense and from 3B they absolutely need more production. Sandoval would be nice until Devers is ready C: Vazquez & FA or ( Lava or Swihart ) 1B: Nap ( IF HE CAN KEEP HEALTHY IF NOT TRADE HIM ). 2B: Pedey ( HAS TO PRODUCE IF NOT HE BECOMES IN A EXPENSIVE AND PRONE INJURIE PLAYER ) 3B: Sandoval for 3 years SS: Boegarts LF: Cespedes CF: Castillo RF: Betts 4TH OF/1B: Nava Utility: Holt DH: Papi SP: Lester - Shields - Maeda - Kelly - Buch RP: Miller - Tazawa - Uehara - Workman - Barnes - Layne - Webster - De la Rosa I agree this line up is too right handed & seems to need a power hitter due to there is a big gap betwen Nap´s producyion and Abreu´s production for example. We can trade for or sign starting pitchers but finding that power left handed power bat is so key to the sox 2015 season.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 20, 2014 21:25:58 GMT -5
If what you believe is true, the team has a big problem with its medical staff. With its full time professional help, its imaging equipment and its association with Beth Israel, mistakes like this should not occur. Fast backward to the misdiagnosed Ellsbury injury and there's real cause for concern. Unless Mike was not being candid with the training staff about his hand injury, it should have recommended that he be shut down until the problem is fixed. Who says it's a mistake? Athletes play through injuries all the time. The job of a medical staff isn't to pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%, if it was the league would shut down sometime around early august every year due to lack of players. If anything it's the job of a medical staff to help players stay on the field despite nagging injuries. Guidas believes that Napoli's hand injury is more serious than what has been reported. So, one of two things had to happen: either Napoli neglected or declined to disclose his injury, or the medical staff, with its available resource,s did not diagnose it properly. I know the medical staff's role is not to "pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%". But it should be able to recommend to the manager that he disable a player until it can properly diagnose and treat the injury. Also, as Guidas maintains, the bone did not properly heal, this is an error on the medical staff.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 20, 2014 22:37:39 GMT -5
Who says it's a mistake? Athletes play through injuries all the time. The job of a medical staff isn't to pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%, if it was the league would shut down sometime around early august every year due to lack of players. If anything it's the job of a medical staff to help players stay on the field despite nagging injuries. Guidas believes that Napoli's hand injury is more serious than what has been reported. So, one of two things had to happen: either Napoli neglected or declined to disclose his injury, or the medical staff, with its available resource,s did not diagnose it properly. I know the medical staff's role is not to "pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%". But it should be able to recommend to the manager that he disable a player until it can properly diagnose and treat the injury. Also, as Guidas maintains, the bone did not properly heal, this is an error on the medical staff. Yeah the medical staff really duffed the diagnosis of an injury that one message board poster imagines Napoli might have. What are we even talking about here?
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,018
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2014 4:05:23 GMT -5
I think another underrated need is for a LH-hitting catcher. I don't like Vasquez and his 52 OBP-plus playing every day. He's a marginal prospect at best. It shouldn't cost much in prospects to get a lefty-hitting platoon C. He's been the 8th best catcher in baseball on a per-game basis, and projects reasonably to be the fifth or sixth best next year. He's been the best defensive player in MLB by a wide margin.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,966
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 21, 2014 7:57:24 GMT -5
I think another underrated need is for a LH-hitting catcher. I don't like Vasquez and his 52 OBP-plus playing every day. He's a marginal prospect at best. It shouldn't cost much in prospects to get a lefty-hitting platoon C. He's been the 8th best catcher in baseball on a per-game basis, and projects reasonably to be the fifth or sixth best next year. He's been the best defensive player in MLB by a wide margin. This is all based on 50 games worth of data? Nobody questions that he's an excellent defensive catcher but we're running a lot of noodle bats out there and we have to upgrade some of those. I just think we have to be realistic with our expectations here. If he has the career that David Ross or Doug Beerabelli had, that would be excellent.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 21, 2014 9:23:33 GMT -5
Guidas believes that Napoli's hand injury is more serious than what has been reported. So, one of two things had to happen: either Napoli neglected or declined to disclose his injury, or the medical staff, with its available resource,s did not diagnose it properly. I know the medical staff's role is not to "pull everyone off the field if they're not 100%". But it should be able to recommend to the manager that he disable a player until it can properly diagnose and treat the injury. Also, as Guidas maintains, the bone did not properly heal, this is an error on the medical staff. Yeah the medical staff really duffed the diagnosis of an injury that one message board poster imagines Napoli might have. What are we even talking about here? I was simply commenting on Guidas' theory on Napoli's injury. You chose to enter the discussion.
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Post by templeusox on Sept 21, 2014 9:29:09 GMT -5
Trade for Adrian Beltre.
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Post by stevedillard on Sept 21, 2014 9:56:39 GMT -5
I think another underrated need is for a LH-hitting catcher. I don't like Vasquez and his 52 OBP-plus playing every day. He's a marginal prospect at best. It shouldn't cost much in prospects to get a lefty-hitting platoon C. He's been the 8th best catcher in baseball on a per-game basis, and projects reasonably to be the fifth or sixth best next year. He's been the best defensive player in MLB by a wide margin. That doesn't pass the eye test. In addition, I think the Sox can barely afford one defense first player. In that circumstance, do you select Bradley or Vasquez? To me, the fact that Swihart is on the horizon with offense plus good defense carries the day. If anyone believes Vasquez is the 8th best catcher you deal him to that person ASAP.
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Post by moonstone2 on Sept 21, 2014 10:08:45 GMT -5
On Maeda......based on the scouting reports I have read......I am going to say he's a back end guy. The red sox have plenty of those. Sorry but I have not watched Webster, Workman, De La Rosa, Barnes nor Ranaudo in World Baseball Classic. Maeda showed his potencial in WBC. And taking just stats this kid is a step behind Tanaka & that means a lot. He will cost just money and is 26 now ( 04.01.1988 ) I think he will be a nice adquisition. Sox should try for two out of Lester, Scherzer, Shields & Hammels and try back-end rotation with Kelly & Buch with the best of Webster, Barnes, Owens, Escobar, Johnson & Rodriguez waiting. I think sox need more lefhanded hitters and become a younger and healthier team. Nap doesn´t contribute to this, Vic neither. From C sox need more production and keep the defense and from 3B they absolutely need more production. Sandoval would be nice until Devers is ready C: Vazquez & FA or ( Lava or Swihart ) 1B: Nap ( IF HE CAN KEEP HEALTHY IF NOT TRADE HIM ). 2B: Pedey ( HAS TO PRODUCE IF NOT HE BECOMES IN A EXPENSIVE AND PRONE INJURIE PLAYER ) 3B: Sandoval for 3 years SS: Boegarts LF: Cespedes CF: Castillo RF: Betts 4TH OF/1B: Nava Utility: Holt DH: Papi SP: Lester - Shields - Maeda - Kelly - Buch RP: Miller - Tazawa - Uehara - Workman - Barnes - Layne - Webster - De la Rosa I agree this line up is too right handed & seems to need a power hitter due to there is a big gap betwen Nap´s producyion and Abreu´s production for example. Matsusaka dominated in the WBC so I am not sure how that is meaningful. Read the Ben Badler report from last year as opposed to examing his NPB stats. Maeda doesn't have the devestating out pitch that Tanaka has. He can probably be a four or five right away, but I think the Sox have other needs.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Sept 21, 2014 10:33:39 GMT -5
A heavy right-hand lineup is not necessarily a disadvantage against righthand pitching. It all depends on which righthand batters a team has.
Some righthand hitters hit righthand pitchers better than lefthand pitchers. On the Sox they are Pedroia, Cespedes, Vazquez and Middlebrooks. Cespedes has the largest margin. He has hit .274/.778 against righthanders this year and .199/.676 against lefthanders.
Bogaerts, Napoli and Betts hit lefthand pitchers better than righthanders. Betts has the largest margin. He has hit .252/.732 against righthanders and .340/.866 against lefthanders.
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Post by prangerx on Sept 21, 2014 10:36:37 GMT -5
Sox arent going to sign Lester. They dont want to sign him to a five or six year deal since he is in his thirties. They feel pitchers in their thirties decline. Lester isnt going to take a four year deal. If the Red Sox thought they could get Lester resigned at the price they wanted, they wouldnt have traded him. Lester now is much more expensive than he would have been to extend last year. So the Red Sox are gonna have to pay even more than they refused to pay when they failed to extend Lester over the course of this season. In Free Agency there will be numerous teams coming at Lester with long term deals. The price will only go up and the Sox 70 million offer isnt even gonna be close. I can see them increasing the offer but jt wont be enough. Id personally have made a bigger efford to extend Lester but thats done now. I'dlove to have Lester back but doesnt seem likely at all .
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Post by jdb on Sept 21, 2014 11:07:08 GMT -5
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Post by tonyj1973 on Sept 21, 2014 12:13:33 GMT -5
Sorry but I have not watched Webster, Workman, De La Rosa, Barnes nor Ranaudo in World Baseball Classic. Maeda showed his potencial in WBC. And taking just stats this kid is a step behind Tanaka & that means a lot. He will cost just money and is 26 now ( 04.01.1988 ) I think he will be a nice adquisition. Sox should try for two out of Lester, Scherzer, Shields & Hammels and try back-end rotation with Kelly & Buch with the best of Webster, Barnes, Owens, Escobar, Johnson & Rodriguez waiting. I think sox need more lefhanded hitters and become a younger and healthier team. Nap doesn´t contribute to this, Vic neither. From C sox need more production and keep the defense and from 3B they absolutely need more production. Sandoval would be nice until Devers is ready C: Vazquez & FA or ( Lava or Swihart ) 1B: Nap ( IF HE CAN KEEP HEALTHY IF NOT TRADE HIM ). 2B: Pedey ( HAS TO PRODUCE IF NOT HE BECOMES IN A EXPENSIVE AND PRONE INJURIE PLAYER ) 3B: Sandoval for 3 years SS: Boegarts LF: Cespedes CF: Castillo RF: Betts 4TH OF/1B: Nava Utility: Holt DH: Papi SP: Lester - Shields - Maeda - Kelly - Buch RP: Miller - Tazawa - Uehara - Workman - Barnes - Layne - Webster - De la Rosa I agree this line up is too right handed & seems to need a power hitter due to there is a big gap betwen Nap´s producyion and Abreu´s production for example. Matsusaka dominated in the WBC so I am not sure how that is meaningful. Read the Ben Badler report from last year as opposed to examing his NPB stats. Maeda doesn't have the devestating out pitch that Tanaka has. He can probably be a four or five right away, but I think the Sox have other needs. Sure I agree. But there are too much needs. Starting pitching ( Two aces at least and 3rd decent starter ). Lefhanded reliever ( Miller ). Balancing too right handed line up. Productive 3B man. Everyday 1B man ( 100 games a season don´t fix). But I insist Starting pitching is the main topic and Matzusaka did not do well but Darvish, Tanaka & Koruda bring tremendous references. I see Maeda in the mix at rasonable cost
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 21, 2014 14:10:40 GMT -5
Yeah the medical staff really duffed the diagnosis of an injury that one message board poster imagines Napoli might have. What are we even talking about here? I was simply commenting on Guidas' theory on Napoli's injury. You chose to enter the discussion. I think it's possible that Napoli has some lingering issues from that injury and I also think it's entirely possible that play through those issues was an entirely reasonable course of action. And I don't know how you can criticize the medical staff on how you're guessing they handled an injury that someone else is also guessing about.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 21, 2014 16:03:06 GMT -5
Remember when we saw Napoli get the injury. His finger was completely pointing in an inappropriate position. Very few of us would have even considered playing through that injury. It's like trying to play when your index finger is at a 45 degree angle to the rest of the fingers.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Sept 21, 2014 20:56:59 GMT -5
I had one of those injuries once. It even made the nurses in the emergency room nauseous, especially the one who got it back in place. It took quite a while for the hand to feel right, like several months.
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