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6/19-6/22 Red Sox @ Athletics Series Thread
ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 21, 2014 23:56:51 GMT -5
Dept. of It Was Already Ridiculous:
We were 0/6, GDP with RISP (and would have 0/7 if it weren't for the blown Napoli call).
A's were 1/1, SF (and would have been 2/2 if it weren't for the great Holt catch).
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Post by templeusox on Jun 22, 2014 1:21:29 GMT -5
We can trade Jon Lester for Josh Bell now.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 22, 2014 1:25:23 GMT -5
We can trade Jon Lester for Josh Bell now. I'm in. Too bad Austin Meadows blew his hammy and hasn't played yet. Would have been an interesting choice.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,016
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 22, 2014 7:38:56 GMT -5
What guys have hit starting June 14:
.323 / .400 / .387 (35 PA) Holt. RISP: 0/5, BB .130 / .160 / .130 (25 PA) Bogaerts. RISP: 0/6, SF, GDP .250 / .294 / .438 (34 PA) Pedroia. RISP: 1/6, 2B. .241 / .290 / .379 (31 PA) Ortiz. RISP: 2/8, GDP .200 / .250 / .300 (32 PA) Napoli. RISP: 0/5, BB. .087 / .154 / .087 (26 PA) Pierzynski. RISP: 0/6, SF, GDP (3 GDP overall) .214 / .353 / .286 (17 PA) Nava. RISP: 0/1 .143 / .294 / .143 (17 PA) Gomes. RISP: 0/1, BB .208 / .208 / .292 (24 PA) Drew. RISP: 0/3 .190 / .292 / .238 (24 PA) Bradley. RISP: 1/4, BB 0/6, BB, Herrera 0/6, Ross. RISP: 0/1
With runners on 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd, the Sox are 0/20, BB, 2 GDP.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 22, 2014 8:40:43 GMT -5
Lots of frustration with the Red Sox which is understandable particularly given how poorly they have played, especially on offense. I am trying to focus more this year on the Red Sox minor leaguers for which there is much promise with guys like Bettts, Ranaudo, Coyle, Johnson, Margot, Devers and lots of the recently drafted guys such as Longhi, Chavis, Travis, etc. Summer is finally here and there are lots of great venues to enjoy watching the next generation of Red Sox play.
Focusing more on the Red Sox minor league system is helping me to avoid the day to day frustration of the parent Red Sox. It's worth a try as the alternative of getting angry/ frustrated with the Red Sox this year is neither enjoyable or healthy.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 22, 2014 8:49:01 GMT -5
Fixed. Why don't you let it play out. Ok. How's it playing out for you? Can you please tell me the lucky numbers for today?
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Post by larrycook on Jun 22, 2014 10:14:00 GMT -5
Lots of frustration with the Red Sox which is understandable particularly given how poorly they have played, especially on offense. It isn't so much that they have just played poorly on offense, what I think I lot of us are frustrated with is that they lack focus or intensity or whatever you want to call it as they just appear to be going through the motions. (Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli especially) They just seem content get through nine innings of carefree - spring training like baseball, hit the showers and cash huge paychecks. As the defending World Champions the other teams are bringing their "A" game and our hitters just are not stepping up their focus to counter. Our pitchers have figured it out and now they have stepped up their game, but for some reason we can not get our hitters to do likewise. The veteran position players lack of caring/fire/determination is what makes the hustle, guts, focus and gritty play of the youngsters so appealing. The youngsters play with the fire and determination and focus we have come to expect in the Boston Red Sox team, but sadly is all but extinct this year sadsack veterans. What is it going to take to wake up the veteran position players on this team? Do we need to go to New York in a few days and get into a few huge bench clearing brawls with those pretenders? Is that going to be enough to light the fire of competitiveness in the belly of our veterans or are they going to continue a summer and fall of breeze and ease and fake it for the rest of the season.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 22, 2014 11:25:38 GMT -5
What is it going to take to wake up the veteran position players on this team? A manager who is good at leadership etc.?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 11:28:47 GMT -5
Lots of frustration with the Red Sox which is understandable particularly given how poorly they have played, especially on offense. It isn't so much that they have just played poorly on offense, what I think I lot of us are frustrated with is that they lack focus or intensity or whatever you want to call it as they just appear to be going through the motions. (Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli especially) True. There has been a lot of diaper throwing of late. But, what's really going to cause a deluge of tears is when the realization sinks in that we don't have a long term answer either at first base or at the clean up position. Has anyone looked at the next crop of free agent position players? It's horrendous.
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Post by jmei on Jun 22, 2014 11:33:20 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the veteran players aren't trying hard? Has Pedroia ever played without effort or intensity? Did you see him take home on a pitch that bounced five feet from the plate yesterday?
Slumps happen. Just because a player does not perform well for a stretch of time does not mean they aren't trying hard or don't care.
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Post by godot on Jun 22, 2014 11:37:18 GMT -5
What is it going to take to wake up the veteran position players on this team? A manager who is good at leadership etc.? Don't know if I can buy the "going through the motions" or not trying explanation for the vets. They are older now, and with age comes diminishing skills and often the body is more susceptible to injuries. More than likely the competitive juices are still there, but perhaps not the same skill levels. Dustin did damage his hand. Papi is showing signs of age (finally)- fouling off pitches he once crushed, warning power. ( They also have been pitching around him). Napoli always has been inconsistent. Gomes is what he is. The mind may be willing but the body may have other ideas. Players do get old you know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 11:51:14 GMT -5
Napoli should shave the beard. If he's not going to play like a champion then he shouldn't look like one either.
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Post by soxcentral on Jun 22, 2014 11:52:07 GMT -5
A manager who is good at leadership etc.? Don't know if I can buy the "going through the motions" or not trying explanation for the vets. They are older now, and with age comes diminishing skills and often the body is more susceptible to injuries. More than likely the competitive juices are still there, but perhaps not the same skill levels. Dustin did damage his hand. Papi is showing signs of age (finally)- fouling off pitches he once crushed, warning power. ( They also have been pitching around him). Napoli always has been inconsistent. Gomes is what he is. The mind may be willing but the body may have other ideas. Players do get old you know. I agree very much with this, there's nothing a manager can do. The lineup has many more likely outs in it than last year so pitchers can pitch around whoever our hottest hitters are, allowing them to attack the weaker bats and the slumping ones (of which there has been no shortage of either). I feel like its more that Ortiz, etc are suffering from not getting great pitches to hit much more than they are age.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 22, 2014 11:52:50 GMT -5
I don't see a lack of intensity or effort from the vets. Pedroia is all out all the time. Big Papi does take it easy running, but that's so he can keep playing. Guys aren't hitting. Some off it is injury, some is declining skills, and some is bad luck.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 22, 2014 11:55:29 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the veteran players aren't trying hard? Has Pedroia ever played without effort or intensity? Did you see him take home on a pitch that bounced five feet from the plate yesterday? Slumps happen. Just because a player does not perform well for a stretch of time does not mean they aren't trying hard or don't care. While it is impossible to generalize anytime you have a group of players, Needless to say 70 plus games of lifeless baseball at the plate is way more than just a slump. The veterans as a group are hitting around .200 with RISP for the year. That is not a slump, is it a sign that they are not hungry, not locked in and not raising their game in key situations. ie: going through the motions. For all the harping on Bradley, he is hitting .207 overall and around .240 with RISP. He is clearly raising his performance in key opportunities. Who else can we say that about on this team? (Maybe AJ?) PS: I want to exclude the pitchers from the group of players going through the motions. In my mind, they have risen to the challenge and are performing above expectations.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 22, 2014 11:56:05 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the veteran players aren't trying hard? Has Pedroia ever played without effort or intensity? Did you see him take home on a pitch that bounced five feet from the plate yesterday? Slumps happen. Just because a player does not perform well for a stretch of time does not mean they aren't trying hard or don't care. Yup slumps to players and teams do happen. The players are trying hard but it seems more and more obvious that...for various reasons with some perhaps indefinable...."it just isn't their year". When is the last time a Sox team was hitting .241???...and 53 homeruns thru 75 games?...1968?? Beyond that offense seems in something of a precipitous decline across baseball. When I look at box scores, team after team has a few every day guys batting less than .200. Looking at relief stats, most teams have pitchers with less than 2.00, or even 1.00 eras. Isn't it great though that we have lots of exciting prospects on the horizon? I hope that we do not go for broke here and trade the farm. We are going to have such financial largess next year if we hold the damn course. For me we are about as low as we are going to get. The future is coming into focus....Don't operate on the patient....just let nature take its course.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,016
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 22, 2014 11:57:00 GMT -5
I don't see a lack of intensity or effort from the vets. Pedroia is all out all the time. Big Papi does take it easy running, but that's so he can keep playing. Guys aren't hitting. Some off it is injury, some is declining skills, and some is bad luck. If anything, the terrible numbers with RISP look like excess intensity: trying to do much, forcing the game instead of letting it come to them.
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Post by jmei on Jun 22, 2014 12:11:21 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the veteran players aren't trying hard? Has Pedroia ever played without effort or intensity? Did you see him take home on a pitch that bounced five feet from the plate yesterday? Slumps happen. Just because a player does not perform well for a stretch of time does not mean they aren't trying hard or don't care. While it is impossible to generalize anytime you have a group of players, Needless to say 70 plus games of lifeless baseball at the plate is way more than just a slump. The veterans as a group are hitting around .200 with RISP for the year. That is not a slump, is it a sign that they are not hungry, not locked in and not raising their game in key situations. ie: going through the motions. For all the harping on Bradley, he is hitting .207 overall and around .240 with RISP. He is clearly raising his performance in key opportunities. Who else can we say that about on this team? (Maybe AJ?) PS: I want to exclude the pitchers from the group of players going through the motions. In my mind, they have risen to the challenge and are performing above expectations. A half-seasons' worth of RISP splits means next to nothing. It's not even close to being enough evidence to support the conclusion that they aren't putting in the effort.
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Post by ethanbein on Jun 22, 2014 12:13:45 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure this guy would have a problem with you saying he isn't trying.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 22, 2014 12:22:10 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure this guy would have a problem with you saying he isn't trying. Mike Carp? He's definitely not trying hard enough. Can't be that hard to heal a bone fracture, can it?
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jun 22, 2014 12:26:33 GMT -5
It's good to see all the "end of the world" negativity is back in this town lol. I know we won the World Series last year, but everyone on this team is garbage. Let's trade Lester, Lackey, Pedroia, Ortiz (hell, anyone over 25 yrs old gets the boot). Then let's tank for the #1 overall pick so we can get a shiny new prospect to talk about. Some of you guys are really unbelievable. They are 6 games back of the Wild Card with half a season to go.
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Post by godot on Jun 22, 2014 12:31:52 GMT -5
I don't see a lack of intensity or effort from the vets. Pedroia is all out all the time. Big Papi does take it easy running, but that's so he can keep playing. Guys aren't hitting. Some off it is injury, some is declining skills, and some is bad luck. If anything, the terrible numbers with RISP look like excess intensity: trying to do much, forcing the game instead of letting it come to them. I am usually skeptical of some psychological explanations for obvious reasons, but the "excess intensity" in general makes some sense. Much of the game is "mental"--- confidence, not being uptight , etc. In some senses it is almost zen or "no mind" like, But you still need the skills, and many of these guys have been through the ringer over the years. Have to believe Dustin's hand is bothering him. Napoli has been a rhythm kind of hitter. Don't know why but Papi is not the same hitter. Brock is about the only guy playing to his capabilities and then some. Does X-Man try to hard and get out oh game with runners on base, or is he going through the usual ups and downs of most rookies? I am also sure that not having Ellsbury and Shane in the lineup has hurt the lineup (and team) in many ways.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 22, 2014 13:16:01 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure this guy would have a problem with you saying he isn't trying. This is a very silly conversation. The thing that's amazing to me about grit/hustle/fire/determination versus complacency/laziness/going-though the motions is the speed at which one becomes the other. It was only a few months ago that this team won a World Series by being the grittiest bunch of gritters that ever gritted a girt, and now the same guys are apparently all lazy slackers who don't care. Except for like a few days ago when they won a bunch of close games in dramatic fashion. It's almost like these dramatic wins/losses are functionally random events that have nothing to do with the the attitude of the players and that this team has earned it's record simply though the level of talent displayed on the field this season.
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Post by ethanbein on Jun 22, 2014 13:50:48 GMT -5
It's almost like these dramatic wins/losses are functionally random events that have nothing to do with the the attitude of the players and that this team has earned it's record simply though the level of talent displayed on the field this season. I agree. I mostly just love that play and the idea that Pedroia is ever not playing hard is pretty ridiculous.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 22, 2014 14:34:54 GMT -5
It's almost like these dramatic wins/losses are functionally random events that have nothing to do with the the attitude of the players and that this team has earned it's record simply though the level of talent displayed on the field this season. I agree. I mostly just love that play and the idea that Pedroia is ever not playing hard is pretty ridiculous. If one of the main features of your argument is that Pedroia just needs to try harder, well, that's not an argument I will be taking very seriously.
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