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6/30-7/2 Red Sox vs Cubs Series Thread
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 2, 2014 22:34:19 GMT -5
So does anyone still want to remind me that this team is only [whatever] games back in the WC race?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 2, 2014 22:34:21 GMT -5
Cow Boy up folks. It's gonna be a smooth ride in Tankville.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 2, 2014 22:36:19 GMT -5
Gomes came to bat against RHPs with runners on base three times tonight and made outs all three times.
While watching the 9th tonight and the small crowd that was left I suddenly had the feeling I used to have years ago at the end of seasons when the Sox were way out of the race.
I like the Cubs team. I think Theo is going to have a winner again. It just took a little longer than it did with the Sox.
And Brandon Moss hit his 19th HR tonight, this one off Verlander.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 2, 2014 22:38:01 GMT -5
Swept, at home, by Theo's Cubbies. If this isn't rock bottom, it's pretty close.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2014 22:39:54 GMT -5
They scored a week's worth of runs tonight and they still got their butts kicked and even better they got swept at home by a lowly Cubs team.
This team has been horrible all season and I don't see a reason why they can't top the 93 losses they had in 2012. The hitting should be lousy all season.
With or without Lester and Uehara come July 31st this team is capable of being horrendous. Just hope they do a better job with a high draft pick this time around.
The only thing to look forward, beside the high draft pick, is the hope that Bogaerts, Betts, and Bradley establish themselves this year. In other words, if Bradley can give us hope hitting .270 or so after the all-star break and not look overmatched at the plate anymore; if and when Bogaerts snaps out of his funk and starts hitting for more power, seeing if Betts can quickly become a top of the order threat sooner than later.
Perhaps get another sneak peak at Marrero and Cecchini and hope one of them can establish themselves on the left side of the infield at the big league level. Dump AJP and see what Vazquez can get them as Swihart moves up to AAA and see what Owens does in AAA.
These are the only things left to look forward to since the Ring Ceremony is gone and the 2004 reunion is done.
How strange the past few years have been: from the biggest Sept collapse in baseball to a pathetic last place finish to an exhilarating unexpected World Championship to another potential free fall into last place again. I grew up watching them win 85 games every year pretty consistently - never saw such dramatic ups and downs. Hopefully 2015 has the arrow pointing upwards.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2014 22:41:02 GMT -5
So does anyone still want to remind me that this team is only [whatever] games back in the WC race? Can't imagine anybody is still that delusional. Like you I got the sense the Sox were cooked early. You can just tell when a season has a certain stench to it.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 2, 2014 22:48:19 GMT -5
I still do not understand the Bradley-Bogaerts Rules. If they get optioned, they still play every day, right? Other teams option their young players regularly, yes?
Is it SoxNation that wants to keep them in the show?
They sat Drew and Bradley and runs crossed the plate. Pray for a healthy outfielder who can hit .245, preferably a righty-bat. In the meantime, I'll settle for Brad Snyder, a LH CF. Or JC Linares.
It's the curse of ______ .
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Post by jmei on Jul 2, 2014 22:50:43 GMT -5
At this point, the primary objective is to develop the young players with upside, not to give away at-bats to AAAA players who might perform marginally better.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 2, 2014 22:57:09 GMT -5
At this point, the primary objective is to develop the young players with upside, not to give away at-bats to AAAA players who might perform marginally better. I couldn't agree more. I've been wondering why several of those AAAA players are still on the roster at Pawtucket. The Sox aren't going to need them, and there are several players at Portland who probably should be at Pawtucket. And that also would open up some spots further down in the system. It's real crowded near the bottom. I don't know how those players can be assessed if they can't play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 23:03:27 GMT -5
^Who exactly are you categorizing as AAAA players though? Personally I would include Butler, Wilson, Lavarnway and Hassan as AAAA excess on the 40 man roster. Anyone else?
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 2, 2014 23:04:47 GMT -5
“@ryanhannable: The guy who caught Mookie's homer actually played against him in high school summer ball. Small world. He got the ball back.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by jmei on Jul 2, 2014 23:10:57 GMT -5
^Who exactly are you categorizing as AAAA players though? Personally I would include Butler, Wilson, Lavarnway and Hassan as AAAA excess on the 40 man roster. Anyone else? None of those guys is taking away a roster spot or playing time from a more deserving player. I'm talking about guys like Andres Torres or Ryan Roberts that some poster thinks should be playing in Boston instead of Bradley and Bogaerts, which is about as bad a suggestion as I've heard on these forums in a long time.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jul 2, 2014 23:15:30 GMT -5
I don't know if the following technically are AAAA players, but their chances of playing for the Sox are very slim and they are taking up spots that maybe could be filled by more promising players at some point:
McCoy, Torres, Rivero, Brown, Roberts and Henry
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 0:08:19 GMT -5
^Who exactly are you categorizing as AAAA players though? Personally I would include Butler, Wilson, Lavarnway and Hassan as AAAA excess on the 40 man roster. Anyone else? None of those guys is taking away a roster spot or playing time from a more deserving player. I'm talking about guys like Andres Torres or Ryan Roberts that some poster thinks should be playing in Boston instead of Bradley and Bogaerts, which is about as bad a suggestion as I've heard on these forums in a long time. I'm not reading the entire thread to see who made such a suggestion, but yes I concur that this absolutely is not the time for the Sox to be playing guys like Torres. Every DL stint/need to rest a sore arm/etc. should be viewed as an opportunity to give a prospect major league experience. The sheer number of prospects simultaneously ready to graduate is something that doesn't happen very often though. Ranaudo, Vazquez, Cecchini, Barnes and soon Swihart, Marrero, Owens and Johnson should all soon be getting looks. The last time I recall an organization being that deep in prospects at AAA/near AAA was the Braves in the early '90s and the Yankees in the mid 90's. The former crop produced Chipper Jones, Javier Lopez, and Ryan Klesko while the latter crop produced Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera. However, each crop also had very highly regarded prospects who didn't come anywhere near matching their hype. Tony Tarasco anyone? How about Ruben Rivera? The next year should prove quite contentious in that some guys will make it while others won't. But we can't begin to make that determination until each is given significant playing time. I don't mind losing games this year just as long as something is being accomplished during those losses.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 3, 2014 0:17:01 GMT -5
At this point, the primary objective is to develop the young players with upside, not to give away at-bats to AAAA players who might perform marginally better. Exactly. This is a prospect site, remember? I know we'd all love for the team to win the WS every year, and they were even good enough to accommodate us last season. This year is about youth. Just getting to watch Betts, Holt, Bogaerts, yes even his struggles, and Bradley also, along with De La Rosa (get him back up here) is rewarding after tracking all of them. That's the team that's coming, along with everyone else who's knocking on the door: Webster and Ranaudo and probably Vazquez also and next year Owens and Swihart. Brentz and Middlebrooks if they ever heal may be part of it also. There will be trades maybe for other prospects, and there are younger players - good ones. I'm in.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Jul 3, 2014 1:38:12 GMT -5
Well, at least the laser show has got going.
A little too late, but I'll take it I guess.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 3, 2014 8:03:28 GMT -5
At this point, the primary objective is to develop the young players with upside, not to give away at-bats to AAAA players who might perform marginally better. Exactly. This is a prospect site, remember? I know we'd all love for the team to win the WS every year, and they were even good enough to accommodate us last season. This year is about youth. Just getting to watch Betts, Holt, Bogaerts, yes even his struggles, and Bradley also, along with De La Rosa (get him back up here) is rewarding after tracking all of them. That's the team that's coming, along with everyone else who's knocking on the door: Webster and Ranaudo and probably Vazquez also and next year Owens and Swihart. Brentz and Middlebrooks if they ever heal may be part of it also. There will be trades maybe for other prospects, and there are younger players - good ones. I'm in. It's the only reason to watch anymore.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 3, 2014 8:27:56 GMT -5
Exactly. This is a prospect site, remember? I know we'd all love for the team to win the WS every year, and they were even good enough to accommodate us last season. This year is about youth. Just getting to watch Betts, Holt, Bogaerts, yes even his struggles, and Bradley also, along with De La Rosa (get him back up here) is rewarding after tracking all of them. That's the team that's coming, along with everyone else who's knocking on the door: Webster and Ranaudo and probably Vazquez also and next year Owens and Swihart. Brentz and Middlebrooks if they ever heal may be part of it also. There will be trades maybe for other prospects, and there are younger players - good ones. I'm in. It's the only reason to watch anymore. Last night was a preview for 2015 if we don't keep Lester and Lackey. And, I'm not down on our pitching prospects. Many great pitchers struggle initially; Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz come to mind. Even Roger Clemens ERA was over 4 in 84. Some of our guys will turn out to be good pitchers. It just won't happen right away. Just as the hitting prospects have struggled this year. We're in the same boat next year if we go with a kiddy rotation.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 3, 2014 8:52:02 GMT -5
I am all for getting all the dead weight off the Red Sox roster including Peavy, Pierzynski, Gomes, Breslow, Herrera, etc. If they can get back some salary relief and a lottery prospect or two all the better. Might as well trade Lester as well as it doesn't apoear as if the Red Sox ownership is willing to offer him anything close to the going rate for a starting pitcher of his pedigree.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,016
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 3, 2014 9:31:16 GMT -5
One would guess that they could have won that game had De La Rosa started on regular rest.
The decision to yank Rubby out of the rotation instead of Workman remains baffling, which is the polite way of saying indefensible.
Here's a comparison. Rubby, Workman when they made the decision / Workman now:
WPA/32 GS: 4.60, 1.43 / -1.36 ERA-: 61, 78 / 112 FIP-: 79, 94 / 121 xFIP-: 75, 110 / 115 SIERA: 3.08, 4.36 / 4.54
All that happened in Workman's last two starts was that his HR/FB luck caught up with him. His numbers are now pretty much indistinguishable from Peavy's.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 3, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5
One would guess that they could have won that game had De La Rosa started on regular rest. The decision to yank Rubby out of the rotation instead of Workman remains baffling, which is the polite way of saying indefensible. Here's a comparison. Rubby, Workman when they made the decision / Workman now: WPA/32 GS: 4.60, 1.43 / -1.36 ERA-: 61, 78 / 112 FIP-: 79, 94 / 121 xFIP-: 75, 110 / 115 SIERA: 3.08, 4.36 / 4.54 All that happened in Workman's last two starts was that his HR/FB luck caught up with him. His numbers are now pretty much indistinguishable from Peavy's. It's annoying that it even has to be one or the other instead of Peavy. Workman hasn't been the same since the questions began of whether he'd ever get another start and not knowing when it would be. Pitchers seem to be creatures of habit. Also of note, was RDLR's awful AAA start. They are screwing everything up.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 3, 2014 9:37:43 GMT -5
One would guess that they could have won that game had De La Rosa started on regular rest. The decision to yank Rubby out of the rotation instead of Workman remains baffling, which is the polite way of saying indefensible. Here's a comparison. Rubby, Workman when they made the decision / Workman now: WPA/32 GS: 4.60, 1.43 / -1.36 ERA-: 61, 78 / 112 FIP-: 79, 94 / 121 xFIP-: 75, 110 / 115 SIERA: 3.08, 4.36 / 4.54 All that happened in Workman's last two starts was that his HR/FB luck caught up with him. His numbers are now pretty much indistinguishable from Peavy's. They were both pitching well at the time and Workman has seniority over Ruby. There was no reason to drop Workman until he stopped performing, which now he has. Personally, I think they need to get rid of Peavy/Buchholz to make room for Workman and Ruby. As you said, Workman's numbers are indistinguishable from Peavy's. At a fraction of the cost and with a little more upside as he progresses, they should be giving the ball to kids who are as good or even better than the veterans who are currently taking up roster spots. If the Sox were still in this race, I'd still give ABs to Bradley because his problems need to be resolved at the ML level and his defense is enough to carry him as a number 9 hitter.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 3, 2014 9:41:07 GMT -5
Personally, I think they need to get rid of Peavy/Buchholz to make room for Workman and Ruby. As you said, Workman's numbers are indistinguishable from Peavy's. At a fraction of the cost and with a little more upside as he progresses, they should be giving the ball to kids who are as good or even better than the veterans who are currently taking up roster spots. If the Sox were still in this race, I'd still give ABs to Bradley because his problems need to be resolved at the ML level and his defense is enough to carry him as a number 9 hitter. I agree. I don't understand why some people are calling for Xander or JBJ to go to AAA to figure it out. Why? To make the team unwatchable with Corey Brown and Ryan Roberts? I'll gladly watch the kids struggle and get out of it.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 3, 2014 9:42:35 GMT -5
One would guess that they could have won that game had De La Rosa started on regular rest. The decision to yank Rubby out of the rotation instead of Workman remains baffling, which is the polite way of saying indefensible. Here's a comparison. Rubby, Workman when they made the decision / Workman now: WPA/32 GS: 4.60, 1.43 / -1.36 ERA-: 61, 78 / 112 FIP-: 79, 94 / 121 xFIP-: 75, 110 / 115 SIERA: 3.08, 4.36 / 4.54 All that happened in Workman's last two starts was that his HR/FB luck caught up with him. His numbers are now pretty much indistinguishable from Peavy's. It's annoying that it even has to be one or the other instead of Peavy. Workman hasn't been the same since the questions began of whether he'd ever get another start and not knowing when it would be. Pitchers seem to be creatures of habit. Also of note, was RDLR's awful AAA start. They are screwing everything up. Both kids were pitching above their heads. They are bound for a rough start or two. Workman should know he's already won his job and if he folds that easily under pressure instead of being motivated then I don't trust him to be the starting pitcher in a playoff elimination game. I just wish they could hurry up and trade off some of the unneeded veterans. They even have the depth to survive injury/vast under-performances. They could trade Lackey, Peavy, Doubrount, and Buchholz and still have rotation depth. Which, in a lost season is perfect in every which way if they can trim the fat.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 3, 2014 9:45:57 GMT -5
It's annoying that it even has to be one or the other instead of Peavy. Workman hasn't been the same since the questions began of whether he'd ever get another start and not knowing when it would be. Pitchers seem to be creatures of habit. Also of note, was RDLR's awful AAA start. They are screwing everything up. Both kids were pitching above their heads. They are bound for a rough start or two. Workman should know he's already won his job and if he folds that easily under pressure instead of being motivated then I don't trust him to be the starting pitcher in a playoff elimination game. I just wish they could hurry up and trade off some of the unneeded veterans. They even have the depth to survive injury/vast under-performances. They could trade Lackey, Peavy, Doubrount, and Buchholz and still have rotation depth. Which, in a lost season is perfect in every which way if they can trim the fat. But Workman didn't know he won his job. I never even heard when it was decided that he'd get the start last night instead of Doubront. This is a much different kind of pressure than a playoff game. At least in the playoff game, you know where you stand and aren't pressing.
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