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8/1-8/3 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
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Post by jclmontana on Aug 3, 2014 22:41:54 GMT -5
Clay is going to be a huge problem to work around in terms of team-building this winter. The Sox have often brought in a broken down reclamation project as a candidate for the 5th rotation spot, but with so many young guys needing a chance to hold down a SP job, the Sox really don't have room for a that type of pitcher. And at this point, Bucky is damaged goods.They need 2-3 (more or less) sure thing pitchers (Lester/Shields/Scherzer types) to go along with the slew of young contenders. But what the hell do you do with Clay? Pencil him in as something between a number 2 and last man out of the pen and wait until mid-season for a turnaround before possibly DFAing him? Sell low in the off-season? Does Ben need to buy one, two, or three really good pitchers? One the one hand, Clay is probably going to turn it around, but on the other hand, the Sox already have a lot of risk in next years rotation, assuming they go with 2-3 of the young guys. The Sox can't really afford to wait for him, but they may be missing out on some really good pitching if they leave him at the side of the road.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 3, 2014 22:45:46 GMT -5
He had that stolen too.
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Post by templeusox on Aug 3, 2014 22:46:12 GMT -5
Let him steal the base you moron.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 3, 2014 22:47:43 GMT -5
Wtf was that?
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Post by station13 on Aug 3, 2014 22:55:46 GMT -5
Clay Buccholz, your opening 2015 Pawtucket starter. What a disgrace.
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Post by MLBDreams on Aug 3, 2014 22:59:03 GMT -5
Dustin kept swinging at ball 4 for numerous of times. He refuse to lay off for ball 4 to get Ortiz for possible game winning walk off HR. Those DP killing them before Dustin come up. John Farrell's base running aggressive philosophy doesn't work out all year.
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Post by mattpicard on Aug 3, 2014 23:08:50 GMT -5
Craig Breslow had a 5.11 FIP and 5.46 xFIP (worst in MLB) before pitching tonight and surrendering the Gardner HR. His BB%, K%, BAA, and WHIP are all at career worsts. -0.3 WAR and a putrid 0.6 K-BB% (worst in AL).
He is, by any account, terrible. He has no future with this team, so why not move him now and let Hembree, or anyone else, take his spot?
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Post by larrycook on Aug 3, 2014 23:41:37 GMT -5
It comes down to one of the following as the fifth starter behind de la rosa, Kelly, workman and ranaudo.
Will it be Webster, Buchholz or wright.
I am thinking wright is the best option at this time.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 3, 2014 23:57:12 GMT -5
And I am thinking that rotation loses 100+ games.
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 7:49:35 GMT -5
Craig Breslow had a 5.11 FIP and 5.46 xFIP (worst in MLB) before pitching tonight and surrendering the Gardner HR. His BB%, K%, BAA, and WHIP are all at career worsts. -0.3 WAR and a putrid 0.6 K-BB% (worst in AL). He is, by any account, terrible. He has no future with this team, so why not move him now and let Hembree, or anyone else, take his spot? Noone's going to trade for him, even if you ate his salary, so you're going to have to DFA him. Here's the case for not doing so. Breslow has a very good track record (2.8 bWAR, 1.5 fWAR the last two years), and while he's been one of the worst relievers in the league this year, that's in a mere 40 innings, which is basically nothing. Because relief pitchers throw so few innings, they can be very up and down, and there's still a chance he turns it around over these last two months and makes that $4m option worth considering. Meanwhile, once Wright gets optioned, there's one free bullpen spot, and they can open another one by trading Badenhop (who might actually return something useful). There's really only two relievers in Pawtucket I'm interested in (Hembree and Hinojosa; maybe Verdugo?), both of whom will by up by September anyhow, so there's no particular hurry.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on Aug 4, 2014 8:14:20 GMT -5
Dustin kept swinging at ball 4 for numerous of times. He refuse to lay off for ball 4 to get Ortiz for possible game winning walk off HR. Those DP killing them before Dustin come up. John Farrell's base running aggressive philosophy doesn't work out all year. Pedroia's been swinging at pitches well outside of the zone all year. At first I thought it was frustration because of thumb, not getting hits at opportune times. Now I wonder if it's become a habit of sorts.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 4, 2014 9:57:10 GMT -5
Clemens was a steroid guy and won multiple titles with the Yankees, I don't think its fair to put him on on the same level as Pedro or Cy. He also doesn't qualify to have his number retired since he ended his career with the Yankees not the Red Sox. Evans wasn't a hall of famer. Boggs ended his career with the Devil Rays and is ineligible for that reason (unless he signs a one day contract which I guess is possible). Pedro doesn't have the 10 years in the organization but he might get an exception since he has been working with the team. I agree with cba82 I don't think Clemens will make the HoF with his steroid use. Clemens should have his #21 retired. I can't stand what he became, but all that steroid stuff was after he had won 3 Cy Youngs for the Sox and had been the lynchpin of the Red Sox staff for a decade. Don't know if you're old enough to remember Clemens when he pitched for the Red Sox. I remember as a kid following him in New Britain and we all knew he was something special. Like Pedro, Roger's outings were events, both 20K games etched in my mind - the first one where he showed his arrival that he had become ROGER CLEMENS, and the other one was his last victory with the Sox, his Sox swan song ten years later! And if the Sox didn't have a blockhead for a manager, I think Clemens would have snuffed out the Mets in relief during Game 7 of the World Series and the Sox could have won. Clemens was the greatest pitcher the Sox ever had up until he left and maybe overall still is (Cy Young was obviously fantastic but he pitched in a low scoring runs environment, but the argument certainly could be made in his favor). If we go by peak performance then it's Pedro Martinez hands down. And let's face it - there's nobody that's a Red Sox fan who doesn't absolutely love Pedro. I'm no different. For 1 game, everything on the line, I'd take Pedro every time. The fact that Boggs doesn't have his #26 retired is ridiculous. This guy won 5 batting titles and they weren't cheapies either. He was hitting .360 plus and after his first seven seasons actually had a lifetime batting average of .356, just behind Shoeless Joe Jackson, Rogers Hornsby, and Ty Cobb. I mean it's absolutely ridiculous. He had a .338 lifetime average when he left the Sox. He's punished for being an idiotic adulterer and going to the Yankees, the latter a crime that Luis Tiant, who should be in the HOF and should have his #23 retired, doesn't get punished for. Boggs is the only HOFer not to have his number retired and that's so wrong on so many levels. I wish the Sox would do him right and retire his number. My gosh, the guy was a .425 to .450 OBP type guy, greatest leadoff hitter the Sox have ever had. And yes, I'd also retired Dewey's #24 as well. He like Tiant, got screwed. He should be in the HOF, too. He gets punished because he hit .272 lifetime and he didn't make it to .400, never mind that he was a spectacular RF for many years and he drew a ton of walks making his OBP, like his SA, very high before it was fashionable. I think Boggs could have his number retired if he does a one day contract but the other guys simply don't meet the requirements. I think Pesky was retired due to special circumstances but Evans I think is a longshot and Clemens an even bigger longshot. The steroids is a big issue. It will be a big issue for Ortiz as well and he is not even a confirmed steroid guy. He is just alleged PEDs. I'm a huge Pedro fan admittedly, I met him when I was 8 years old and got his autograph. I still think there is a chance even he doesn't get his number retired but I think he has the best shot unless Boggs does a 1 day contract type thing, in which case he meets every criteria.
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 4, 2014 10:04:03 GMT -5
What the hell are we going to do with Clay? he has absolutely no value. I was in favor of trading him along time ago when he did have some value. Some saw him as a future ace but he's so inconsistent and obviously mentally weak.
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Post by mattpicard on Aug 4, 2014 11:17:26 GMT -5
Craig Breslow had a 5.11 FIP and 5.46 xFIP (worst in MLB) before pitching tonight and surrendering the Gardner HR. His BB%, K%, BAA, and WHIP are all at career worsts. -0.3 WAR and a putrid 0.6 K-BB% (worst in AL). He is, by any account, terrible. He has no future with this team, so why not move him now and let Hembree, or anyone else, take his spot? Noone's going to trade for him, even if you ate his salary, so you're going to have to DFA him. Here's the case for not doing so. Breslow has a very good track record (2.8 bWAR, 1.5 fWAR the last two years), and while he's been one of the worst relievers in the league this year, that's in a mere 40 innings, which is basically nothing. Because relief pitchers throw so few innings, they can be very up and down, and there's still a chance he turns it around over these last two months and makes that $4m option worth considering. Meanwhile, once Wright gets optioned, there's one free bullpen spot, and they can open another one by trading Badenhop (who might actually return something useful). There's really only two relievers in Pawtucket I'm interested in (Hembree and Hinojosa; maybe Verdugo?), both of whom will by up by September anyhow, so there's no particular hurry. He's 34 in a couple days, sporting career-low velocity, and looks like the workload last year fried him of his command as well. There is virtually no chance we pick up his option, IMO. Even if he starts getting better results (ie. he brings his ERA down by 1-1.5 runs), I'd have to see some significant changes in his peripherals to make retaining him worth even considering. He's one of those guys where when you combine the numbers with what you see, it becomes apparent that he just doesn't have anything anymore.
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 11:56:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know if I really believe in the case I just made. Breslow looks pretty terrible, and I very much doubt he'll turn it around. But stranger things have happened, and DFAing him now just gets you an extra month of a relief spot to one of Hembree/Hinojosa/Verdugo, which frankly is not that valuable. I guess I'm just saying that it's not as much of a slam dunk as you implied earlier.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Aug 4, 2014 12:04:26 GMT -5
Where did this rash of 'mentally weak' 'headcase' 'bag of cats' descriptors come from? Anybody who fails these days gets that label. I don't get it.
Sometimes a guy is just in a funk. Other times, he's just not good enough to do what's asked of him. In either case, it's as least as likely to be physical than it is mental.
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Post by soxcentral on Aug 4, 2014 12:20:12 GMT -5
I'd like to once again suggest Clay be moved to the bullpen so he can figure out whatever his issues are. He isn't going to AAA, he's useless as a trade piece right now, and is killing our chances to win every 5 days.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 4, 2014 12:22:57 GMT -5
I'd like to once again suggest Clay be moved to the bullpen so he can figure out whatever his issues are. He isn't going to AAA, he's useless as a trade piece right now, and is killing our chances to win every 5 days. We're not exactly contending for a playoff spot. Its in our best interest to ride this out.
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 4, 2014 12:27:35 GMT -5
Breslow has been awful, i think the amount of innings he pitched in the regular season and postseason has warned him down a bit. He had a FABULOUS year last season.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 4, 2014 12:33:28 GMT -5
Not sure how exactly we're going about tanking, because on the one hand, I want our prospects to shine. But I also don't really want to win a lot. So Breslow and Buchholz have their use.
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 4, 2014 13:13:20 GMT -5
^ good points, also i loved the way Vazquez has played this season. He has produced Offensively more then we expected. I still don't understand why Betts isn't playing everyday. Mookie gets sent down, tears the cover off the ball, comes back up and isn't playing. dumb. PLAY MOOKIE!
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 13:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 4, 2014 13:14:00 GMT -5
Only caught the beginning of the game as we went off to visit with friends who are leaving town, but I did catch the score at the end of the game and saw that Gardner had won it with a HR. As for Breslow, the variability of year-to-year performance for relievers is large. Right now he's the poster child for that, unfortunately. His value just keeps sinking. Buchholz is another matter. His mechanics look screwed up to me. He overthrows and ends up high in the zone a lot. It would be instructive to revisit the glove placment/pitch location results for last evening. He missed the mitt a bunch of times. Right now he's not the ace of any team. Add: I did see where Vazquez got a couple of hits. ...loved the way Vazquez has played this season. He has produced Offensively more then we expected. I still don't understand why Betts isn't playing everyday. Mookie gets sent down, tears the cover off the ball, comes back up and isn't playing. dumb. PLAY MOOKIE! My thoughts when I watch him is that he approaches the game professionally with everything he does. Behind the plate, he wants to be the best and he works at it. At bat, he doesn't try to do more than he can, at least right now since he's still figuring out the league. To me he's an upgrade from the get go. I'm glad they brought him up.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 4, 2014 13:26:59 GMT -5
Whew, if you ever wondered how some teams can make just completely boneheaded moves at the deadline, there's this little tidbit: That's just dumb. How can you make good decisions working on two nights of no sleep? edit to add: This is not to say that Cherington made bad decisions last week ... I was traveling much of last weekend so didn't weigh in, but I think he actually did well and went in an interesting direction that I wasn't expecting.
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 4, 2014 13:32:55 GMT -5
I hope that was the reason why we traded Reddick and Raul Alcantara for Bailey? we know who won that deal! i suppose Ben didn't have any sleep either?
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