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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2014 8:25:09 GMT -5
New Orleans isn't trading Asik. Davis doesn't have the strength to play center full-time yet, and Asik has played well for them.
A potential trade partner for Green and Bass is Charlotte, who has struggled but still has playoff aspirations and desperately needs help on the wing (where they need shooting) and at PF (where Marvin Williams has played terribly). They have some interesting future assets in Cody Zeller, Noah Vonleh, and their 2015 pick, though not many expirings that they could use to match salaries.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 4, 2014 11:59:27 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 4, 2014 12:08:20 GMT -5
I can't see Charlotte being a match because of the money and salaries. Technically, Vonleh and Zeller for Green works but that's not realistic.
I disagree that Davis can't play center full time. It's not like this is 15 years ago, there are very few beastly centers that will over power him. Plus, he's a beast.
Not saying it's likely they'd move Asik, but if they feel they need to shake things up a bit to get things moving, he's probably the guy. I doubt they resign him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 5, 2014 8:27:47 GMT -5
There was an article on in siding about NBA teams needing a shakeup. Pelicans were on it about the small forward position being a mess and the team needing a change or they may have the league MVP not in the playoffs.
I'd rather Munroe than Asik next year so if trading Green hurts that chance then I probably wouldn't.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 5, 2014 11:15:01 GMT -5
Asik is a free agent next year. I'd prefer using our assets for some thing with a longer reward.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 5, 2014 13:16:12 GMT -5
Yea Green is a potential free agent as well.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 5, 2014 16:16:10 GMT -5
Understood. Just think another team will offer something that has more long term value. Boston can still go after AsIk with their room in the offseason.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5
What is Avery Bradley's issue defensively this year?
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 17, 2014 6:31:21 GMT -5
So the Celtics actually have a decent chance of making the playoffs without much improvement. Very sad, but true. Brad and the boys need to try to make it but should Danny? I say no, but curious to hear others thoughts. I'm still in salary shedding and asset accumulation mode, which means higher draft picks are better. Player development is very important too, which can be an argument for a playoff appearance, but I want the lottery pick more. Starting next season, we can have potential lottery picks for three seasons from the Nets so that's when go make the playoff push.
I'd look to trade Thornton, Bass, Green and Rondo for future assets. Bass and Thornton are obvious.
Green because I think he opts out and can bring back something good and Rondo because the way he is playing doesn't make me want him long term. Point guards are everywhere now so I'm not paying him near max especially when he doesn't defend.
As for the trades, no longterm money should one back. Maybe a two year deal that expires after best in right situation. None of our future picks unless it's for a top young prospect. And I'm a fan of unprotected firsts so if you are dealing with a team like Dallas, I'd make a longterm play and go for a 2017 unprotected first or something vs a known late first.
Edit: I am not suggesting Dallas would do something like this. Just used an aging quality team so don't focus on the team.
The Celts have a ton of draft picks coming up and you can only use so many. I like the idea of accumulating unprotected picks years from now as lottery tickets for when the team is hopefully good again and not earning high firsts themselves. It's a chance for long term sustain health of the franchise. Better to spread them out.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 17, 2014 20:55:50 GMT -5
Word is Celts are more willing than ever to trade Rondo... Weighing offers that include 2015 first round picks. I'd prefer a later unprotected first unless it's a borderline playoff team...
Also shopping Jeff Green per Yahoo
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 6:42:11 GMT -5
Agreed. Not sure an additional pick in the 20 this year does much. I'd rather add to the picks in subsequent years when it might be something.
That being said, I'm sure teams would want stricter lotto protection down the road (especially if Rondo might only play half a season for the acquiring team).
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 18, 2014 7:05:20 GMT -5
The Mavs (and Rockets) are supposedly interested, which makes a lot of sense for them as he'd fit them well.
I'm sure they would want lottery protection, everyone does, but in the NBA it's unlikely a guy leaves if you are willing to pay him as the current team can pay more. At worst a sign and trade can work out. Pushing the pick out years devalues it so it should be able to come without protection. Maybe the Mavs will give up their 2018 first unprotected. Dirk has to be bad by then unless he's some German genetic experiment. Possible.
The Rockets are really going for it and the Mavs window is closing fast.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 18, 2014 7:28:35 GMT -5
The money works if you deal Rondo for Felton and Wright, plus picks. Wright is a free agent after this year. Having a good season in limited minutes and you can see if he's a good system fit. Felton makes you have to take an extra year at 3.7m which is fine if you get the right picks. The Celtics won't be major players on the free agent market next year anyways so that 3.7m won't hurt what they want to do. It also gives another expiring contract for next year to go with Wallace.
You could substitute Nelson and Jefferson for Felton. That'd be preferable for the Celts as Nelson has less money due next year 2.7 and has more ability to be flipped to someone even for a second rd pick and Jefferson is a Free Agent.
I think it's a safe bet Jeff Green opts out so he should be dealt too....
Tear it down, it's a shame Young and Smart are injured.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 13:04:34 GMT -5
Evaluating the reported teams interested (DAL, HOU, SAC, LAL, NY and I'll throw in IND based on Amick's report) I'm having the hardest time getting behind a deal with the Mavs. To me, they have the least to offer. By team:
Dallas - I was once intrigued by BWright but I think he's now more of a great guy to have if you're looking for that last piece (either starter or reserve). Despite only being 27 and playing great in a backup role, I'm not sure how much upside he offers. In other words, I feel he offers much more value to Dallas than he does Boston. Crowder would be the only other young piece (ZERO interest in Monta Ellis, thank you). Also, while I agree that the C's won't be players (directly) in free agency next year, cap space still has value as they could get rewarded for brokering deals. So I don't think I'd want Felton included. So their offer depends on picks.
Houston - Part of me hopes the talk about Dallas would be to get Houston to increase their offer. It might not be a great package (or even the best possible one) but an offer involving some combination of DMont, Jones, Capela, Johnson and NO's pick (which might be the best 2015 draft pick Boston could hope to obtain) could be the most they can realistically hope to get. Maybe Boston is trying to leverage this year's FA battles and interstate rivalry to force a bidding war. (Comment - Stein recently reported that Goran Dragic is more atop Houston's list of desirable PGs - which makes sense since he has some SG attributes with Harden having the ball a lot).
LA Lakers - I actually think they COULD put together the most attractive package but I doubt they would. It makes MUCH more sense for them to keep all of their assets and go after Rondo in free agency (unless LAL doesn't think they can get him, especially if he's traded to another contender) but maybe Kobe steps in and forces their hand. They can't trade their own pick this year as it goes to Phoenix if outside the Top 5 (and I don't believe you can "split protection" on a pick - where if it's outside the top 5 it goes to Phoenix, otherwise it goes to Boston). They DO have Houston's pick though. I also think Ed Davis is a more desireable version of Brandan Wright (he's younger and cheaper and still in the backup role that you might want to project to a starter). They'd also have some salaries that I believe would enable them to offset Wallace if that was part of the deal. Of course, Randle would be desirable as well (possibly making Sullinger available in a subsequent trade). Still, I'd think LAL might look to see what they can do in free agency.
Sacramento - as an indictment of what young players they could hope to get for Rondo, the Kings might have the next best player(s) in McLemore and/or Stauskas. Both have limitations (and may prove to be overdrafts) but probably offer the most upside this side of Randle. They can't, however, offer a pick until 2017 (not a deal breaker but a point to be made).
New York - If the goal is to dump Wallace's salary, NY is your best bet. With the expiring deals of Bargnani and Stoudemire, they could easily take on Wallace's contract. They have Shumpert and Hardaway to offer as young pieces, as well as future draft picks. Still, Boston doesn't seem inclined to deal Rondo within the division (my add - unless it's far and away the best deal)
Indiana - Hill has some upside but that's about it. Without George, their pick this year would still hold value but it'd have to be protected on the backside (ie we're seeing some protections that ensure a pick is in the lottery or higher than a certain pick - like NO's pick going to Houston as long as it's between 4-19). I don't think Hibbert is on the table. In conference caveats apply here too.
So who's the best matchup?
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 18, 2014 13:58:11 GMT -5
Dallas or Houston are the best matchups as far as I'm concerned. I like Terrence Jones and would love to get him back in a Rondo deal and I'd take NO pick even if it's going to be the worst lottery pick if they don't make the playoffs. However, I don't know how it works if they won the lottery because the C's couldn't get that pick and since the Houston pick is likely to go to LAL then the C's couldn't get the 2016 Houston pick either...
I want zero to do with Ben McLemore.
By the way I'm pretty sure ESPN's trade machine doesn't work right for the trade exemption stuff as they won't let you use it on Rondo because his salary is higher than the exemption, but I think in real life it can go towards off setting that salary.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 14:02:01 GMT -5
If I understand your question correctly, the protection applies AFTER the lottery draw. So just bc, say NO, goes into the lottery with the 14th best chance at winning, they still get to keep their pick if it's in the top 3.
I definitely would rank Houston as the top of the potential suitors (assuming LAL isn't giving up Randle). I just don't love what Dallas as to offer.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 18, 2014 14:22:03 GMT -5
If I understand your question correctly, the protection applies AFTER the lottery draw. So just bc, say NO, goes into the lottery with the 14th best chance at winning, they still get to keep their pick if it's in the top 3. I definitely would rank Houston as the top of the potential suitors (assuming LAL isn't giving up Randle). I just don't love what Dallas as to offer. Are you sure about that? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 18, 2014 14:23:39 GMT -5
Wait... I think I read that wrong... That's kind of my point... We could trade for the NO pick from Houston but Houston may not have that pick and if they don't get it this year then it's possible it rolls into 2 seconds... Don't forget in this situation NO would have the best player in the NBA and a top 3 pick from this year.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 15:48:26 GMT -5
All the rights are conveyed to us. So, in this example, if it's 4-19 it would be ours and those rules apply through 2018. In 2019 and 20, it's conveyed if between 4 and 24. Otherwise, 2nd rounders in 20 and 21.
But yes, the value of a pick from them could significantly drop if they missed the playoffs AND won the lottery. That being said, I have a hard time envisioning that the pick every converts to two 2nds.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 15:59:51 GMT -5
Wojo suggesting that the price is too high for Sacramento to re-engage. I'm guessing that their offer would be limited by doubts of Rondo re-signing.
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Post by jmei on Dec 18, 2014 17:32:25 GMT -5
By the way I'm pretty sure ESPN's trade machine doesn't work right for the trade exemption stuff as they won't let you use it on Rondo because his salary is higher than the exemption, but I think in real life it can go towards off setting that salary. This is inaccurate-- you can't combine trade exceptions with other contracts (i.e., use it to "offset" salary). |
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 17:33:00 GMT -5
Reading now that it would be an upset if he's still in Boston by the end of the week. Value now higher than it will be from now on in. Picks are the goal (with the suitors trying to involve a 3rd team to improve their package).
I'd link tweets but it's the usual suspects (Wojo, Bullpet, Stein, et al)
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 17:53:55 GMT -5
If not already, we are officially on alert as Stein is reporting they are moving towards a deal tonight. Boston motivated additionally by he ability to re-package an acquired player prior to the deadline (build up Wrights value by starting him and then move him in February?)
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 17:57:16 GMT -5
Currently looking like Wright, Crowder and Nelson plus future 1st and future 2nd. (per Stein)
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Post by texs31 on Dec 18, 2014 18:01:37 GMT -5
Done per ESPN
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