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Boston Celtics 2014-15 season
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 30, 2014 9:23:17 GMT -5
The report about Pierce being interested in exploring a return to the Celtics next year got me thinking. At first, I was like " what a bad fit, they don't need an old veteran to make them a little better and snag PT from a young guy."
However, assuming Jeff Green opts out or is traded, in other words, he isn't in Boston, then I think PP could be perfect for this team. One thing I do believe is important is having the proper veterans around to help young players develop. Pierce and even KG would be perfect for those things, if they were willing to play that role. I think they could probably be sold on it, especially if Wic would pay them for one year. The Celtics will have good cap space and it's probably too early to really use it. Signing PP and KG to 1 year contracts at good money to play limited minutes and teach the young guys (Smart, Young, Sully, Olynik, Zeller, and new draft picks) how to prepare, study film and play team defense could be a great investment for both parties. Give them more money and no trade clauses on one year deals.
Offers great teaching from great role models and prevents you from signing dumb contracts on mediocre players and positions you well for the 2016 draft and free agent class.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 30, 2014 11:44:23 GMT -5
Thought I'd take a look at players most likely to be traded (or, at least, not with Boston after the deadline):
Jeff Green - According to reports, Boston is holding out for a package that includes a 1st round pick. I would imagine the fact that he's still on the team would suggest that they haven't received that offer yet (duh). As a reasonable 3rd option (even one who can opt out after this year) I would think they could get that OR a recent 1st rounder. Even so, I would think that player would likely not have a huge impact on the future.
Brandan Wright - Cleveland might be interested (though any rumors are really just reporters connecting the dots). Not sure what they could get for him as you'd think, as the GM of another team, you'd want a starter for the precious 1st rounder that Boston might be asking for. No sign that, even at his best, Wright can carry his performance to starter minutes. As we know, he can be traded by himself now. But maybe Boston waits until the deadline to package him in order to get the best value.
Brandon Bass - In a recent chat, I asked Kevin Pelton about his trade value. Specifically, I asked (and Pelton agreed) if the return for BB would be comparable for what Minnesota received for Corey Brewer. So your looking at some combination of journeyman and 2nd rounders. In other words, the best value in a trade is playing time for the youngsters.
Jameer Nelson - Not sure here. I don't think anyone will give much (if anything) for him. So do you just take what you can get for him or keep him. If he picks up his option, you have a cheap vet to mentor Smart. If not, 2.9M more in room.
Marcus Thornton - Not going to get anything in value. I suppose his salary could be used to offset money in another deal (brokering a 3-team transaction?) but, more than likely, they'll walk away after the deadline (unless they need bodies to get on the floor).
Evan Turner - Not getting any value. His deal includes next year so he'll likely be in Boston through this season. In the offseason, maybe his deal is used to offset salary in a transaction but nothing more.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 1, 2015 11:50:22 GMT -5
I think they need to take a look at Turner as a starting PG. He's got talent and pedigree and plays much better with the ball. Smart could be good at the 2 possibly and they could work well together....
Bradley goes to the bench. Sixth men are valuable.
It's something they should take a long look at, not saying it will work but it's worth a look. Mike Connelly took a while to develop and is now one of the best PGs, not a great comp but in loose terms it fits.
I just think it's the best way to possibly get value from Turner and he's a player with a legitimate high ceiling even if it's not highly likely he gets there. They have over a year and a half to find out. What's the downside?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 4, 2015 14:32:35 GMT -5
I think they should play Turner at whichever position gives him the most trade value, then get him the hell outta Boston.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 6, 2015 18:45:55 GMT -5
The only exciting thing for me now is watching Young play and hoping the draft picks we have accumulated end up being reasonably high. Young looks the part. Unfortunately he doesn't drive well yet (apparently). I have fallen off the Smart bandwagon a bit. Although a willing one, he is not a particularly good shooter (Rondo 2.0?) so I don't see him as a 2. He has been injured surely but he does not appear to be a big assist guy nor does he take it to the basket much. And with a thick body I wonder how he will do against real quick guards defensively...especially down the line.
Hopefully we end up with a top 6-8 draft pick in 2015 but we will be fighting hard for that because there are a lot of teams seemingly determined to be awful. Doc Rivers' pick won't help us much and the 76's pick will fall to the second round in 2016. So, I don't see much improvement from the upcoming draft unless we are able to move up..
Maybe we get a boost from free agency this summer but what is the attraction for the type of youngish player that could grow with and really impact us besides the faded aura of the leprechaun?.....Oh yeah...maybe our pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 6, 2015 19:04:09 GMT -5
Not really sure how you've fallen off the Smart badwagon already. The guy's already an elite defender, and he's at least shown flashes on the offensive end.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 6, 2015 19:18:22 GMT -5
Buckle up... This is a few year rebuild. Time to relax, they have guys to clear out. Free agency isn't in okay this year, no one worth going for who they can actually get. Danny will save his money.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 6, 2015 23:37:24 GMT -5
Yeah. I keep reading folks talking about all the assets they'll have to make a big trade. But who? Who could possibly be available that they could get?
The next great Celtic(s) will be coming from the draft if they are to get him in the next year or so. Don't see how a yrade or free agency will bring one.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 7, 2015 6:29:59 GMT -5
Yeah. I keep reading folks talking about all the assets they'll have to make a big trade. But who? Who could possibly be available that they could get? The next great Celtic(s) will be coming from the draft if they are to get him in the next year or so. Don't see how a yrade or free agency will bring one. yea people need to understand that last time the team already had the following: 1. An all-time great (Pierce) 2. A TOP young prospect (Jefferson) 3. A top 5 pick Right now they have none of that. They need to develop1 and 2 first or some facility of that while still being bad enough for the top pick... The Brooklyn picks gives hope they can get the pick without being that bad, but they still need to be bad to get 1 and 2. |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 7, 2015 6:42:22 GMT -5
I have hopes that Smart could be #2 but he isn't there yet.
Those Brooklyn picks could be the key to the whole thing.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 7, 2015 8:37:07 GMT -5
Sully actually has better stats than Big Al had over the 1st 3 years but Al definitely had more upside at this time in their careers.
Would love to see more of James Young. Not that I think he'll be part of Big 3 but I think he can be a starter/contributor or piece of a big trade SHOULD such a player ever come available.
That last piece, again, is the bigger issue for me. Even if we had Rondo (or some of the younger guys were already demonstrating more advancement then they currently are), there aren't really any available guys out there that I would consider Big 3 (sorry if I'm over-using that term. It's just a shorthand way of saying 3 star-like players on a championship caliber team) material. I really feel that Gasol and Aldridge are going back to Mem/Por respectively so who are we talking about?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 7, 2015 9:09:27 GMT -5
There isn't a star that can be added or should be added from
Outside right now. I shouldn't say should be, but it's just not a realistic option right now. They need to develop and take low cost/risk shots at under performing players with upside like Evan Turner.
Sully has better stats but remember Al was drafted out of HS so age and upside (as you said) were on his side.
Young has top 3 potential. Has a ways to go but he was drafted after his freshman year, has the frame, athletic ability and he's a good shooter already. He's also shown an early maturity and work ethic that is promising. Time will tell but the talent is nice.
Hopefully, the next draft offers more. Danny has proven he can find talent deeper in the draft and even if thy don't have a top 3 pick he can find the players after that too. Lots of these "franchise" guys are drafted outside those picks. Hell Dirk and PP were 8 and 9.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 7, 2015 9:11:04 GMT -5
Smart can't shoot but a lot of Rookies can't. Time will tell if he's able to improve.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 7, 2015 15:44:27 GMT -5
Not sure how useful an exercise this is but BasketballInsiders.com just posted an article discussing possible Jeff Green trades (these aren't rumors but contrived deals based on who might be interested on what they might be able to give up). The article does note that picks may be needed to sweeten the deals but, in terms of players only, they are:
Portland - for Dorell Wright, Thomas Robinson and CJ McCollum
Memphis - for Tayshaun Prince and Jordan Adams
New Orleans - along with Gerald Wallace, for Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers
Oklahoma City - for Kendrick Perkins and Perry Jones III
Sacramento - for Derrick Williams and Ray McCallum
If we were to pretend that these are real offers (and either no picks are involved or the picks are largely comparable), which package would you take?
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Post by texs31 on Jan 7, 2015 15:54:16 GMT -5
Was hoping that Boston could use Cleveland's desperation for a rim protector to get some good value out of Brandan Wright but the Cav's have traded 2 first rounders to Denver for Timofey Mozgov. No Boston involvement as 3rd party (to be honest, Boston's involvement would've made more sense if Cleveland was getting Koufos - with Memphis wanting a replacement as a backup to Gasol).
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 7, 2015 15:59:06 GMT -5
Cleveland is just an awful franchise... They lost Lebron last time by being desperate and dealing all their assets for crap veterans and seem to be doing the same... My god
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Post by texs31 on Jan 7, 2015 16:19:01 GMT -5
Not sure what happened the first time through (ie what lead up to "the decision") but you have to be, if you're Cleveland. Lebron IS their future and you have to do what you think is needed to accomodate (and I can't imagine that they aren't communicating with him on these moves).
By the way, if you look at the 2 trades in conjunction with each other, they traded Dion Waiters (not a great fit as a starter) plus Memphis' pick (which likely doesn't get conveyed until 2017) for Mozgov (undervauled rim protector), Shumpert (despite being underwhelming, he's probably an ideal complement to Cleveland's 3 in that he can play good D and doesn't need the ball) and JR Smith (who would be similar to Waiters, albeit a bit crazier).
They also still have Haywood's $10M NG contract for next year to trade. Not saying they are a model franchise but I'm not sure how you can do much else (though their success will be largely based on how Wiggins vs Love ends up).
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 7, 2015 22:35:41 GMT -5
I actually kind of like the Cleveland trades - Shumpert and Mozgov both fit nicely on any roster, and getting rid of Waiters is addition by subtraction.
Smith is, of course, the huge wild card in all of this.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 8, 2015 2:16:41 GMT -5
Not sure how useful an exercise this is but BasketballInsiders.com just posted an article discussing possible Jeff Green trades (these aren't rumors but contrived deals based on who might be interested on what they might be able to give up). The article does note that picks may be needed to sweeten the deals but, in terms of players only, they are: Portland - for Dorell Wright, Thomas Robinson and CJ McCollum Memphis - for Tayshaun Prince and Jordan Adams New Orleans - along with Gerald Wallace, for Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers Oklahoma City - for Kendrick Perkins and Perry Jones III Sacramento - for Derrick Williams and Ray McCallum If we were to pretend that these are real offers (and either no picks are involved or the picks are largely comparable), which package would you take? I have to say I don't like any of those trades without a first round pick. Reports are that Danny wants a first round pick, which I can understand for a player like Green. Now if we play the game of which one of these trades would I do. It has to be Portland or Memphis deals. I really like McCollum and Adams. Based on the way this team is constructed I would take the Portland deal. We don't need Robinson, but I really like McCollum's 3 point shooting |
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Post by texs31 on Jan 8, 2015 7:08:30 GMT -5
Latest rumors have Memphis in pursuit. While Boston wants a 1st, many feel they will eventually settle for less.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2015 9:08:38 GMT -5
Getting Jordan Adams is like getting a first round pick so Danny should be fine with that. I'd jump at that deal so you don't miss the chance to dump Green for something and then cut Prince right away. These teams aren't waiting for the deadline and neither should Danny. Green's play is slipping and he's not going to command more later. Even if there is an injury, it need to be to the right team who can actually trade you something. NBA trades are obviously more difficult than baseball trades.
If Miami beats you to the punch and trades them Deng, then they are worse bad we aren't ha...
Adams has good size and seems like he can shoot it a little. Young is a SG/SF so they can co-exist. Smart-Adams-Young 1-2-3 has nice size with a couple shooters.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2015 9:10:55 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but what is the point of either McCallum or Williams?
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Post by texs31 on Jan 8, 2015 9:27:34 GMT -5
I think projecting Adams as a starter might be getting ahead of ourselves but, I agree, probably the most desirable player out of that group.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 8, 2015 9:29:14 GMT -5
Haven't seen him play much but I liked McCallum. Not as the main part of a Green deal but I think he's at least Pressey, if not more. I read someone write that Williams is a future MVP . . . in the Chinese league.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 9, 2015 0:27:19 GMT -5
Getting Jordan Adams is like getting a first round pick so Danny should be fine with that. I'd jump at that deal so you don't miss the chance to dump Green for something and then cut Prince right away. These teams aren't waiting for the deadline and neither should Danny. Green's play is slipping and he's not going to command more later. Even if there is an injury, it need to be to the right team who can actually trade you something. NBA trades are obviously more difficult than baseball trades. If Miami beats you to the punch and trades them Deng, then they are worse bad we aren't ha... Adams has good size and seems like he can shoot it a little. Young is a SG/SF so they can co-exist. Smart-Adams-Young 1-2-3 has nice size with a couple shooters. Adams coming out of college was know as a poor 3 point shooter. You can't look at his numbers this year, as he is 3 for 7. Very small sample size. I do like Adams, but its not like getting a first if Danny doesn't like him. That being said a Prince Adams and Stokes for Green trade isn't that bad. |
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