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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 4, 2015 9:38:41 GMT -5
Boston has kept their mouths shut about Moncada. Hope that's more of a bidding tactic than a lack of serious interest.
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Post by jrffam05 on Feb 4, 2015 9:57:54 GMT -5
I hope we either sign this guy or make the Yankees overpay for him. I am pretty pessimistic about our odds of getting him.
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Post by templeusox on Feb 4, 2015 10:13:44 GMT -5
The media is giving a distinct "we're throwing crap against the wall" feeling with their Moncada rumors.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2015 10:15:56 GMT -5
The media is giving a distinct "we're throwing crap against the wall" feeling with their Moncada rumors. Yeah, there is really very little news citing sources. Even when they say "He wants to sign soon", they don't cite a source.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 4, 2015 10:53:17 GMT -5
“@spwill: Moncada said to MLB.com goal is to make it to majors ASAP. LAD/NYY roster has easier path to MLB at 2B/SS/3B than #RedSox.”
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 4, 2015 10:54:07 GMT -5
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Post by burythehammer on Feb 4, 2015 11:18:26 GMT -5
“@spwill: Moncada said to MLB.com goal is to make it to majors ASAP. LAD/NYY roster has easier path to MLB at 2B/SS/3B than #RedSox.” I think we should clarify that the first part of this tweet is something Moncada actually said and the second part is an extrapolation by the tweeter. He's 19. He knows none of these teams are going to start him any higher than AA at best (and that is probably unlikely). It's about money, just like it always is. Period.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2015 11:47:15 GMT -5
Part of me wonders if a team like the Rays couldn't promise him a roster spot in the majors so he becomes a free agent at age 25/26 and then offer him less money.
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Post by jrffam05 on Feb 4, 2015 12:25:30 GMT -5
“@spwill: Moncada said to MLB.com goal is to make it to majors ASAP. LAD/NYY roster has easier path to MLB at 2B/SS/3B than #RedSox.” I think we should clarify that the first part of this tweet is something Moncada actually said and the second part is an extrapolation by the tweeter. He's 19. He knows none of these teams are going to start him any higher than AA at best (and that is probably unlikely). It's about money, just like it always is. Period. It is a pretty valid point though. If his goal is to get to arbitration as fast as possible, do you pick Bogaerts, Betts, Pedroia, Chavis, Devers, Marrero (Include Sandoval and Han Ram) as your long term competition, or Gregorius, Mateo, Refsnyder, and Jagielo (Include Headley and.... A-Rod). Assuming the offers and the other factor are close it would seem Yankees have a huge advantage here.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 4, 2015 12:53:09 GMT -5
I think we should clarify that the first part of this tweet is something Moncada actually said and the second part is an extrapolation by the tweeter. He's 19. He knows none of these teams are going to start him any higher than AA at best (and that is probably unlikely). It's about money, just like it always is. Period. It is a pretty valid point though. If his goal is to get to arbitration as fast as possible, do you pick Bogaerts, Betts, Pedroia, Chavis, Devers, Marrero (Include Sandoval and Han Ram) as your long term competition, or Gregorius, Mateo, Refsnyder, and Jagielo (Include Headley and.... A-Rod). Assuming the offers and the other factor are close it would seem Yankees have a huge advantage here. If he's afraid of the competition on the Red Sox, I'm not sure I'd want to spend $80-90 million on him
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2015 12:57:15 GMT -5
Napoli and Papi will likely be gone in 2 years. There will be room for him.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 4, 2015 13:05:07 GMT -5
When he's ready he will get his chance. The Red Sox have shown that over the last few years, they aren't afraid to accommodate players once they think they are ready.
Well let's see what happens but I can't see that as a deciding factor. More than likely whomever offers the most will get him.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 4, 2015 13:19:09 GMT -5
When he's ready he will get his chance. The Red Sox have shown that over the last few years, they aren't afraid to accommodate players once they think they are ready. Well let's see what happens but I can't see that as a deciding factor. More than likely whomever offers the most will get him. Agreed. See: Mookie Betts. If you're that good the team will find a spot for you (or trade you to a team that will for an All Star/Blue Chip in return - see Russell/Samardzija).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 4, 2015 13:42:42 GMT -5
“@spwill: Moncada said to MLB.com goal is to make it to majors ASAP. LAD/NYY roster has easier path to MLB at 2B/SS/3B than #RedSox.” I think we should clarify that the first part of this tweet is something Moncada actually said and the second part is an extrapolation by the tweeter. He's 19. He knows none of these teams are going to start him any higher than AA at best (and that is probably unlikely). It's about money, just like it always is. Period. That's true. Most likely the Dodgers and/or the Yankees will tell him whatever you've been offered we'll top it. I believe those two teams do business that way, particularly the Yankees. The Red Sox don't do business that way. Not saying they should, but in this case it will deliver Moncada to either NY or LA, most likely NY as it seems all set up for them. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't sign with the Yankees and absolutely shocked and thrilled if he did sign with Boston.
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Post by burythehammer on Feb 4, 2015 14:01:49 GMT -5
The fact that he gets all this money up front is fascinating to me. He will essentially be the richest man since Michael Jordan to ride the buses, won't he?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2015 14:11:57 GMT -5
The fact that he gets all this money up front is fascinating to me. He will essentially be the richest man since Michael Jordan to ride the buses, won't he? Depends if it's spread out I guess. I assume his portion could be structured unlike the penalty.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 4, 2015 14:31:46 GMT -5
The fact that he gets all this money up front is fascinating to me. He will essentially be the richest man since Michael Jordan to ride the buses, won't he? This is fascinating to me, too, also from the budget/business standpoint of the teams. Look at a team like the Red Sox: they have around $185-190 million dollars budgeted for their major league payroll every year. It's a lot of money and gives them a lot of flexibility within that, but from a business accounting perspective, it's a solid, predictable expense line. So deciding to drop a bunch of cash on Panda or Hanley is just a matter of allocating existing resources. They have a few million budgeted for international FA signings, lots of money for physical infrastructure (stadium), marketing, blah, blah, etc, etc. All the normal costs of running the Red Sox. But this is an entirely new class of expense, a player acquisition cost unlike any other (although similar to acquiring a Japanese player). They just have to find tens of millions of dollars to drop here. As an accounting measure, they'll have to project this investment into future years' major league payroll costs, thinking that his value as a minimum-salaried and arbitration-eligible player will soak up the excess cost now, but it's still money they have to find in excess of their normal budget since, presumably, they aren't going to lower their payroll later to cover for this expense. Like I said, it's similar to a posting fee in Japan, with the disadvantage of the lesser certainty of performance but the large advantage of greater certainty and savings in payroll costs. Sorry, I'm doing some budgeting/accounting now for my business, so I'm thinking this way. It's just an interesting thought experiment to me on how the Sox will value Moncada and how much they'd be willing to spend. And also how few teams have the flexibility to do something like this ...
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2015 15:06:45 GMT -5
Yeah, this is basically a decision up to John Henry and the other competing owners. It can't be budgeted for and you can't really take the money away from future budgets. It's a one-time expense. It also has no negative impact on the future.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 4, 2015 15:12:25 GMT -5
So it's basically a glorified posting fee, accounting wise.
Write off, business expenses; entertainment. One time charge for depreciation.
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Post by burythehammer on Feb 4, 2015 15:34:49 GMT -5
The fact that he gets all this money up front is fascinating to me. He will essentially be the richest man since Michael Jordan to ride the buses, won't he? Depends if it's spread out I guess. I assume his portion could be structured unlike the penalty. You're right. I just went back to one of Badler's posts and he says Moncada's bonus can be spread over the next three years and structured however the signing team and Moncada agree(it only has to be paid up front of it's less than 1m). My mistake. Still, with a 50m bonus even if they paid him in equal monthly installments that's roughly 1.3m a month. So I guess my statement is still accurate.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2015 19:52:43 GMT -5
I think we should clarify that the first part of this tweet is something Moncada actually said and the second part is an extrapolation by the tweeter. He's 19. He knows none of these teams are going to start him any higher than AA at best (and that is probably unlikely). It's about money, just like it always is. Period. It is a pretty valid point though. If his goal is to get to arbitration as fast as possible, do you pick Bogaerts, Betts, Pedroia, Chavis, Devers, Marrero (Include Sandoval and Han Ram) as your long term competition, or Gregorius, Mateo, Refsnyder, and Jagielo (Include Headley and.... A-Rod). Assuming the offers and the other factor are close it would seem Yankees have a huge advantage here. I don't think that is an issue at all, like others have said. If a team is willing to spend $80 million on you as a 19 year old, they are going to do everything in their power to accommodate you and give you every chance to succeed. This isn't like your typical prospect signing, where a team is committing like ~$5M at most. This is $80M on you.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 4, 2015 21:38:30 GMT -5
In a full article (ESPN Insider required/recommended), Olney writes that there is also a belief among execs that the Dodgers‘ financial restraint to this point in the offseason could make them more aggressive on Moncada, with some believing that they will ultimately land him. Olney adds that many execs feel the Red Sox‘ current surplus of Dustin Pedroia, Xander Bogaerts, Pablo Sandoval and Mookie Betts will limit their interest and limit how far the team is willing to stretch. As Olney puts it, Boston simply isn’t as desperate for Moncada as some of their competition.
Via MLBTR
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 4, 2015 22:02:25 GMT -5
Umm sounds like those execs don't know what the Red Sox are thinking and are just speculating assuming stuff.
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Post by bluechip on Feb 4, 2015 22:24:05 GMT -5
While it's true that it just seems like speculation. The Red Sox do have many positions seemingly locked up for the next three to six years.
It would be a very good thing if the starting left fielder, center fielder, right fielder, second baseman, shortstop, and third baseman were all the same on opening day 2018 as they were on opening day 2015. While something between now and 2018 will likely mean that one or two or as many as five of those positions change in the next four seasons, the Red Sox right do not NEED to plan for that contingency. Many teams do not have the Red Sox luxury of multiple starters under control for multiple seasons.
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Post by soxfan06 on Feb 4, 2015 22:36:58 GMT -5
I think that report gives credence to the "media throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks" speculation in this thread.
1. Dodgers "restraint" has only led their payroll to go from $238,841,005 to $257,760,000 this offseason....what awesome restraint shown by those guys. They didn't spend another $100 million.
2. I'm glad the Red Sox aren't desperate. That's a terrible way to run a business. But the fact that they aren't desperate doesn't mean they aren't going to be aggressive and pursue Moncada strongly.
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