|
|
Post by sportnik on Feb 9, 2015 14:22:03 GMT -5
My god, when did we become a small market team? We can't compete with the Padres? I'll be disappointed if he signs with San Diego or anyone else.
The Sox were offering over $100M to Lester, so they have plenty of cash. They are already limited from giving large bonuses to international players for 2 years. With the international draft coming & CBA changes that have put large market teams a significant disadvantage (competitive balance draft, etc), this might be their last opportunity to take advantage of being a large market club. They have to seize this opportunity. It may be a long time before the Sox have an opportunity to acquire an elite young player in a cash only transaction.
|
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 9, 2015 14:29:52 GMT -5
My god, when did we become a small market team? We can't compete with the Padres? I'll be disappointed if he signs with San Diego or anyone else. The Sox were offering over $100M to Lester, so they have plenty of cash. They are already limited from giving large bonuses to international players for 2 years. With the international draft coming & CBA changes that have put large market teams a significant disadvantage (competitive balance draft, etc), this might be their last opportunity to take advantage of being a large market club. They have to seize this opportunity. It may be a long time before the Sox have an opportunity to acquire an elite young player in a cash only transaction. Have you been paying any attention at all to the Red Sox offseason and what they did on the international market? They overspent on both Sandoval and Hanley, paid Rusney, and blew past the bonus threshold. |
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2015 16:12:52 GMT -5
My god, when did we become a small market team? We can't compete with the Padres? I'll be disappointed if he signs with San Diego or anyone else. The Sox were offering over $100M to Lester, so they have plenty of cash. They are already limited from giving large bonuses to international players for 2 years. With the international draft coming & CBA changes that have put large market teams a significant disadvantage (competitive balance draft, etc), this might be their last opportunity to take advantage of being a large market club. They have to seize this opportunity. It may be a long time before the Sox have an opportunity to acquire an elite young player in a cash only transaction. Have you been paying any attention at all to the Red Sox offseason and what they did on the international market? They overspent on both Sandoval and Hanley, paid Rusney, and blew past the bonus threshold. Exactly why they should get Moncada too. |
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Feb 9, 2015 16:19:57 GMT -5
Can't we technically sign any player that will reach 16 at some point between now and July 2nd? or if they turn 16 between now and then do they have to wait until July 2nd? Shouldn't some of these kids be considered the top talent and if the bidding for Moncada gets ridiculously high couldn't the Sox spread out some of that money between several top young prospects instead??? Perhaps this belongs in the international thread. I do know that a lot of these kids have agreements under the table (or so I've heard) before they reach 16.....but perhaps the Sox are that team that has agreements?  I know the Sox have signed guys later in the signing period before such as Victor Acosta, Simon Mercedes and Daniel McGrath. |
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 9, 2015 16:27:00 GMT -5
Only the guys that turned 16 prior to august 30/2014 can sign. Guys that turn 16 after that have to wait for July 2 at which point the Red Sox will only be able to sign players for 300k or less bonuses.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 9, 2015 17:12:11 GMT -5
Any update on what its going to cost to sign him?
|
|
|
|
Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 9, 2015 19:13:19 GMT -5
Any update on what its going to cost to sign him? If there was, you wouldn't have to ask the question. |
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Feb 9, 2015 20:15:58 GMT -5
The Yanks will not lose this deal. They have to sign Moncada given their recent moves. It's going to get extremely expensive. More than Abreu / Castillo.
|
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Feb 9, 2015 21:05:22 GMT -5
The Yanks will not lose this deal. They have to sign Moncada given their recent moves. It's going to get extremely expensive. More than Abreu / Castillo. Sadly agree. They have the bottomless money pit and there are no effective external constraints. |
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Feb 9, 2015 21:07:42 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending this is George Steinbrenner's Yankees? The Yankees are no longer untouchable when it comes to spending on free agents.
|
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2015 23:22:14 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending this is George Steinbrenner's Yankees? The Yankees are no longer untouchable when it comes to spending on free agents. Why? The Yanks are still capable of big spending when they want to. You saw what they spent in the offseason of 2013-2014 when they signed Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, and McCann to big free agent deals. I'm sure Cashman knew it was a band-aid solution given the farm system had decayed, which is why he went all out in the international market and why getting Moncada would fit their M.O. perfectly. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,611
|
Post by nomar on Feb 9, 2015 23:33:31 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending this is George Steinbrenner's Yankees? The Yankees are no longer untouchable when it comes to spending on free agents. That may be, but they also probably are actively trying to avoid albatross, A-Rodesque, deals. The money is there. |
|
|
|
Post by charliezink16 on Feb 10, 2015 0:06:33 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending this is George Steinbrenner's Yankees? The Yankees are no longer untouchable when it comes to spending on free agents. That may be, but they also probably are actively trying to avoid albatross, A-Rodesque, deals. The money is there. That's exactly why they would go all out for him. The Yanks love to spend big in free agency, yet the multi-year deals for players on the wrong side of 30 haven't worked out. Signing Moncada would be a change in philosophy for the better. I too think NYY is the favorite here, but Boston can't be counted out. A lack of positional availability is irrelevant here. If the next Cano is available, you go all out for him regardless. Things will work themselves out over time. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,611
|
Post by nomar on Feb 10, 2015 0:36:37 GMT -5
That may be, but they also probably are actively trying to avoid albatross, A-Rodesque, deals. The money is there. That's exactly why they would go all out for him. The Yanks love to spend big in free agency, yet the multi-year deals for players on the wrong side of 30 haven't worked out. Signing Moncada would be a change in philosophy for the better. I too think NYY is the favorite here, but Boston can't be counted out. A lack of positional availability is irrelevant here. If the next Cano is available, you go all out for him regardless. Things will work themselves out over time. Agreed |
|
|
|
Post by burythehammer on Feb 10, 2015 6:23:20 GMT -5
This is starting to feel like the Dervish thing all over again. As in we end up being not really involved for whatever reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by soxfan1615 on Feb 10, 2015 7:36:19 GMT -5
My god, when did we become a small market team? We can't compete with the Padres? I'll be disappointed if he signs with San Diego or anyone else. The Sox were offering over $100M to Lester, so they have plenty of cash. They are already limited from giving large bonuses to international players for 2 years. With the international draft coming & CBA changes that have put large market teams a significant disadvantage (competitive balance draft, etc), this might be their last opportunity to take advantage of being a large market club. They have to seize this opportunity. It may be a long time before the Sox have an opportunity to acquire an elite young player in a cash only transaction. Have you been paying any attention at all to the Red Sox offseason and what they did on the international market? They overspent on both Sandoval and Hanley, paid Rusney, and blew past the bonus threshold. Overspent on Hanley and Sandoval? I wouldn't call Sandoval an overpay but how in the world could you call Hanley an overpay? He took less money to come here. You have to understand its not 2011 anymore. Contracts a couple years ago are far different than contracts now |
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Feb 10, 2015 8:13:43 GMT -5
Only the guys that turned 16 prior to august 30/2014 can sign. Guys that turn 16 after that have to wait for July 2 at which point the Red Sox will only be able to sign players for 300k or less bonuses. I knew about the July 2nd date, I was unaware of the august 30th date. Kinda makes sense now that I think about it because otherwise these signings would probably be more spread out. Thanks for clarifying that for me. |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 10, 2015 9:02:57 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending this is George Steinbrenner's Yankees? The Yankees are no longer untouchable when it comes to spending on free agents. Why? The Yanks are still capable of big spending when they want to. You saw what they spent in the offseason of 2013-2014 when they signed Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, and McCann to big free agent deals. I'm sure Cashman knew it was a band-aid solution given the farm system had decayed, which is why he went all out in the international market and why getting Moncada would fit their M.O. perfectly. And you also saw them lose Cano and not sign anyone other than Andrew Miller and Headley this winter. I don't know what their strategy is, but we don't really know what it is yet. There are plenty of indications that it's not a no-brainer that they sign Moncada. |
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Feb 10, 2015 9:54:27 GMT -5
Yankees acquired Didi to replace the legend, Derek Jeter. Now they will have to sign Moncada to replace the legend.........................Stephen Drew!
|
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 10, 2015 14:41:38 GMT -5
Why? The Yanks are still capable of big spending when they want to. You saw what they spent in the offseason of 2013-2014 when they signed Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, and McCann to big free agent deals. I'm sure Cashman knew it was a band-aid solution given the farm system had decayed, which is why he went all out in the international market and why getting Moncada would fit their M.O. perfectly. And you also saw them lose Cano and not sign anyone other than Andrew Miller and Headley this winter. I don't know what their strategy is, but we don't really know what it is yet. There are plenty of indications that it's not a no-brainer that they sign Moncada. Every few years or so they crank up the free agent spending. They did do that after 2013. As crazy as they are, they're not dumb enough to sign a player into his 40s anymore. They already went thru the A-Rod debacle. That's why they didn't get Cano. They weren't going to give him 10 years like Seattle was crazy enough to do. Still didn't stop them from spending a ton on other guys. Cashman knows that he has an old overpaid team with a mediocre farm system. This is why he spent big bucks on a young guy like Tanaka, why he obliterated the spending limit on the international market and will most likely show little to no restraint on Moncada. He fits exactly what they're now trying to do - spend the money on younger talent. Why else would they spend that much on the international market? |
|
|
|
Post by stevedillard on Feb 10, 2015 15:34:15 GMT -5
Well, if you get Moncada you get 6 years, age 21 to 27. If you pay 80 million, you also have to pay 500K for first year, $1 mil, 1.5 mil and $2 mill ($5) then for arb you get $12 mil and $15 mil, for ($27) in arb years. That's a total of $112 mil.
If he's a homegrown kid like Bogaerts you make tons of money paying him only 32 mil for those first six years. But if you have to shell out $112 for those 6 years, that gets to be a bit rich. Factor in the slight bust risk, and you have little monetary benefit as you're paying close to top value if he's good, and a decent chance you may just be breaking even if he's decent.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Feb 10, 2015 16:08:18 GMT -5
Well, if you get Moncada you get 6 years, age 21 to 27. If you pay 80 million, you also have to pay 500K for first year, $1 mil, 1.5 mil and $2 mill ($5) then for arb you get $12 mil and $15 mil, for ($27) in arb years. That's a total of $112 mil. If he's a homegrown kid like Bogaerts you make tons of money paying him only 32 mil for those first six years. But if you have to shell out $112 for those 6 years, that gets to be a bit rich. Factor in the slight bust risk, and you have little monetary benefit as you're paying close to top value if he's good, and a decent chance you may just be breaking even if he's decent. You're also getting the prime years and an inside track at the other 3 prime years before a decline. |
|
|
|
Post by Smittyw on Feb 10, 2015 16:51:52 GMT -5
I'd much rather drop that kind of money on a 20 year-old than a 30+ year-old whose best days are likely behind him.
It seems crazy, but only (I suspect) because there's really no good precedent for something like this. What would a Buxton/Russell/Correa/Seager/etc. class prospect fetch if they were free agents and could be signed by the highest bidder tomorrow?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 10, 2015 16:56:49 GMT -5
I'd much rather drop that kind of money on a 20 year-old than a 30+ year-old whose best days are likely behind him. It seems crazy, but only (I suspect) because there's really no good precedent for something like this. What would a Buxton/Russell/Correa/Seager/etc. class prospect fetch if they were free agents and could be signed by the highest bidder tomorrow? Soler |
|
|
|
Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 10, 2015 17:01:29 GMT -5
He's certainly the closest, but he was considered a lessor prospect than Moncada is today and there is also reason to believe the market price for Cuban players has increased considerably.
|
|
I know the Sox have signed guys later in the signing period before such as Victor Acosta, Simon Mercedes and Daniel McGrath. 
