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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 13, 2015 17:07:17 GMT -5
I think Moncada will be an excellent pro and hopefully his eventual pop will make that strikeout rate be almost irrelevant. His hit tool will never be maximized unless he develops at least some power, but the good news is it looks like he will.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 13, 2015 17:13:38 GMT -5
I find it funny that you are admittedly just scouting the box score and that has led you to conclude that Moncada is "raw" and Benintendi is a "baseball rat." I wonder what other factor might be leading to those labels. I know this isn't what you're implying, but I think a lot of people place prospects into those groups based on K rate. I don't think Moncada will ever be a low K guy. He's someone I see in the 19-22% range, and that should be fine. Moncada does strike out a lot more often, does make a lot more errors, doesn't even have a definite position yet and spent 6 weeks in XST all of which indicate that he is in some ways a raw prospect. Compare that to Benintendi who hit the minors running full speed and has a definite position, is not making a lot of errors and seems to have a much better idea of what he is doing at the plate. I don't think anyone should have difficulty seeing that. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 13, 2015 17:16:07 GMT -5
- BA is a bad metric to use to judge anyone at any level, but after his first month of games his BA was actually very good.
- Players grow into their power, and he's already hitting bombs and definitely hasn't learned to use his power as consistently as he will
- Tools aren't everything, but they're meaningful. And he's arguably the toolsiest hitter in the minors
He's one of the best prospects in baseball, I think it's pretty foolish to even try to argue that. Everyone runs the risk of busting, but I don't even think Moncada does too much given all the thugs he's going to be able to do to bring positive value.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 13, 2015 17:18:07 GMT -5
Amazing.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 13, 2015 17:18:41 GMT -5
I also called him possibly the toolsiest player in the minors and projected him as a potential top 5 prospect. We don't differ that much overall in our assessments.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 13, 2015 17:24:56 GMT -5
quadruple down
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 13, 2015 17:26:51 GMT -5
- BA is a bad metric to use to judge anyone at any level, but after his first month of games his BA was actually very good. - Players grow into their power, and he's already hitting bombs and definitely hasn't learned to use his power as consistently as he will - Tools aren't everything, but they're meaningful. And he's arguably the toolsiest hitter in the minors He's one of the best prospects in baseball, I think it's pretty foolish to even try to argue that. Everyone runs the risk of busting, but I don't even think Moncada does too much given all the thugs he's going to be able to do to bring positive value. The only tool that isn't translating into a baseball skill yet is his fielding, but even that has improved a lot. Still has a way to go. But everything else is showing up in stats and in games. |
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 13, 2015 17:29:11 GMT -5
What if I told you that those six weeks in extended spring training were actually spent at Yale? Would that change your perception of his rawness/ratness ratio?
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 13, 2015 17:33:46 GMT -5
Burythehammer...I was actually waiting for that comment from someone. Now you are implying racism. I don't differ with you guys much on Moncada, but you want to accentuate the differences. I hope he's fantastic and think he will be great. I just have less confidence that he will be than some of you. Apparently none of you care that in 2 years in Cuban baseball he hit about as well as Iglesias did at the same age. What does that tell you regarding his hitting ability? Anything? He still did just hit .278 in Greenville this year in over 300 AB. Does that tell anyone here anything? Are we seeing the hype or the performance level? The FO PR machine and rumors of some scout comments or the reality of the situation? No doubt Moncada "LOOKS' like a fantastic prospect but is he really a fantastic prospect in the same conversation as Mike Trout? Probably NWIH. We paid $60 mil for him. Are we scouting the hype or the reality? The tools or an objective eval of his performance? No doubt his performance was real solid but top 5 performance level in the minors? That is more hype and tool projections than it is performance. I'm hoping he becomes everything we all want him to be. No need to insult or insinuate racism. By the way, almost the only reason I watch Redsox baseball any more is to see Mookie, Xander, JBJ and Swihart develop. 3 out of 4 of those guys are at least mixed race. Just like my wife and kids. You really need to learn when to quit. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. Do you read this board and read how many people get called out ONCE for looking at batting average and then they shut up about it and at least move on to OPS and then finally to wRC+, OPS+ and wOBA? Do more reading and less writing for awhile, that's my unsolicited advice. Also, unless you understand very advanced statistics, don't ever bother scouting a box score. If you've seen him play in person, that's worth about 10 times more than batting average. And I also really can't believe that you're criticizing him for taking time to get going after taking 18 months off from playing. After XST and the first month of playing, he was the best player in the minors for the rest of the season, which is exactly what the Red Sox thought they were getting when they paid $63 million to sign him - a guy who easily would have gone 1-1 in many drafts. And the racism stuff is the dumbest thing you've said. |
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 13, 2015 17:37:33 GMT -5
What if I told you that those six weeks in extended spring training were actually spent at Yale? Would that change your perception of his rawness/ratness ratio? Is that where he went? I already feel better him as a prospect. He definitely has the intangibles to improve every aspect of his game. True gamer. Intellectual player who will out-think pitchers at the ML level. And with his athleticism, he a sure-fire HOF'er. Why didn't you say anything earlier about his time at Yale? |
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 13, 2015 17:50:41 GMT -5
Well if it's not rascism and I still disagree with some of you it must be something right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be something you guys aren't seeing from your throne at the top of baseball heaven. So let's pull out the Yale stuff again.
I understand statistics well enough to get by. I told you guys once before that I clepped out of college statistics at a major university while in high school, along with 4 other courses. I'm not ignorant. I run 2 internet companies. I really don't need the baseless insults. I've made my case and it differs slightly with some of you. So be it.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 13, 2015 17:54:54 GMT -5
Well if it's not rascism and I still disagree with some of you it must be something right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be something you guys aren't seeing from your throne at the top of baseball heaven. So let's pull out the Yale stuff again. I understand statistics well enough to get by. I told you guys once before that I clepped out of college statistics at a major university while in high school, along with 4 other courses. I'm not ignorant. I run 2 internet companies. I really don't need the baseless insults. I've made my case and it differs slightly with some of you. So be it. And yet you're using batting average. |
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Post by curll on Sept 13, 2015 17:55:28 GMT -5
Well if it's not rascism and I still disagree with some of you it must be something right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be something you guys aren't seeing from your throne at the top of baseball heaven. So let's pull out the Yale stuff again. I understand statistics well enough to get by. I told you guys once before that I clepped out of college statistics at a major university while in high school, along with 4 other courses. I'm not ignorant. I run 2 internet companies. I really don't need the baseless insults. I've made my case and it differs slightly with some of you. So be it. |
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 13, 2015 20:26:37 GMT -5
Well if it's not rascism and I still disagree with some of you it must be something right? It couldn't POSSIBLY be something you guys aren't seeing from your throne at the top of baseball heaven. So let's pull out the Yale stuff again. If you get to keep breaking out hilariously base stereotypes and also get to keep quintupling down on them when people call you out then I get to keep breaking out the Yale thing. |
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Post by p23w on Sept 13, 2015 20:29:25 GMT -5
I talked with someone who saw a lot of Moncada and he said he was reminded of a young Hanley.
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Post by jmei on Sept 13, 2015 20:35:21 GMT -5
Let's move on. If you must continue this line of discussion, please do so in the throwdown subforum. Thanks.
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 14, 2015 5:35:04 GMT -5
FWIW I was indeed implying race, but not racism. There is a big difference. I don't think it's controversial to say that small, white players get the "gritty, hard-working baseball rat" tag that you will never see put on Latin players who are built like running backs. It's actually insulting to both players.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 14, 2015 11:11:16 GMT -5
A basketball gym rat is generally known as a kid who hangs out at the gym an awful lot. Someone who has practiced an extraordinary amount. I extended it to baseball. It is a complement in my opinion if it is applied to any race. It is someone who has spent an extraordinary time on a baseball field, refining his craft. I've applied it to 3 players in recent memory: Dustin Pedroia, Cechinni and the reigning high school hit champ of Ohio, Andrew Benintendi. I'm a proponent of Malcolm Gladwell's outlier theory. It's one of the many aspects of a player I examine. My approach is often misunderstood in that I never said I gave equal weight to things like intelligence as compared to speed or power, athleticism etc...but I do try to consider every detail of their personal attributes, experience, personal characteristics, what others say, what I see and what they actually do. I stand by every single word I've posted in this thread and have no problem moving on.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Sept 14, 2015 11:25:49 GMT -5
A basketball gym rat is generally known as a kid who hangs out at the gym an awful lot. Someone who has practiced an extraordinary amount. I extended it to baseball. It is a complement in my opinion if it is applied to any race. It is someone who has spent an extraordinary time on a baseball field, refining his craft. I've applied it to 3 players in recent memory: Dustin Pedroia, Cechinni and the reigning high school hit champ of Ohio, Andrew Benintendi. I'm a proponent of Malcolm Gladwell's outlier theory. It's one of the many aspects of a player I examine. My approach is often misunderstood in that I never said I gave equal weight to things like intelligence as compared to speed or power, athleticism etc...but I do try to consider every detail of their personal attributes, experience, personal characteristics, what others say, what I see and what they actually do. I stand by every single word I've posted in this thread and have no problem moving on. And how do you know that Moncada hasn't practiced an extraordinary amount or as a kid who spent a ton of time in fields or roads in Cuba? I am guessing you don't, no one does. |
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Post by jmei on Sept 14, 2015 11:38:57 GMT -5
I'll reiterate: let's move on. Any further posts on this topic will be moved to the throwdown subforum. Thanks.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 14, 2015 14:37:50 GMT -5
I'll reiterate: let's move on. Any further posts on this topic will be moved to the throwdown subforum. Thanks. Agree. Let's stick to the topic: "Where Do You Think Moncada Will Sign?" Can't believe over 50% still believe it's the Yankees.  |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 14, 2015 14:39:58 GMT -5
Yoan Moncada: Mike Trout or Mike Almanzar?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 14, 2015 20:16:46 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier
According to an industry source, Red Sox prospect Yoan Moncada expected to play for the @criolloscaguas in Puerto Rico this winter.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 15, 2015 12:29:50 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier According to an industry source, Red Sox prospect Yoan Moncada expected to play for the @criolloscaguas in Puerto Rico this winter. That's Cora's team for anyone who didn't know |
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Sept 15, 2015 14:15:23 GMT -5
Great read on Yoan's season and his goals for next year. |
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