SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 20, 2015 10:10:08 GMT -5
I don't think Moncada has the hands/footwork for shortstop. It's not just about raw athletic tools (range, arm, etc.), but also about whether he can develop the fine motor skills necessary to play a position that requires very fast hands and feet. Those are his weak points now at 2B, and I'm skeptical that he'll improve enough in those areas to make it worth even considering moving him to shortstop. There are plenty of guys who had the raw athletic tools for shortstop but who could never development the necessary skills to stick there long-term (B.J. Upton, Billy Hamilton, Alfonso Soriano, Adam Jones, etc.). I'd be shocked if the Sox moved him to shortstop. Generally, the Sox have always kept guys at short unless they were sure it wouldn't work, then once they moved them, they never went back. Guys like Middlebrooks, Chavis, etc came into the system and got immediately moved, someone like Pedroia was a SS for a while, then got moved, and not one of them moved back. Now, as for whether he'll stick at 2nd or not, I can't say specifically having never seen him in person. But I will say that almost everyone (including me!) thought Bogaerts lacked the footwork and elite athleticism to play shortstop when he was in A-ball, so some humility in projecting these guys is always in order. Is it just me, or do a lot of the types of prospects that scouts expect to get big and move down the defensive spectrum end up not doing that these days? |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,611
|
Post by nomar on Sept 20, 2015 10:49:23 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if the Sox moved him to shortstop. Generally, the Sox have always kept guys at short unless they were sure it wouldn't work, then once they moved them, they never went back. Guys like Middlebrooks, Chavis, etc came into the system and got immediately moved, someone like Pedroia was a SS for a while, then got moved, and not one of them moved back. Now, as for whether he'll stick at 2nd or not, I can't say specifically having never seen him in person. But I will say that almost everyone (including me!) thought Bogaerts lacked the footwork and elite athleticism to play shortstop when he was in A-ball, so some humility in projecting these guys is always in order. Is it just me, or do a lot of the types of prospects that scouts expect to get big and move down the defensive spectrum end up not doing that these days? Who else comes to mind for you? Correa I thought always had a shot, and Seager looks like he definitely will move off. Trying to think further back... |
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Sept 20, 2015 19:47:56 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do a lot of the types of prospects that scouts expect to get big and move down the defensive spectrum end up not doing that these days? Who else comes to mind for you? Correa I thought always had a shot, and Seager looks like he definitely will move off. Trying to think further back... You're missing the most obvious one. Hint, he plays for the Red Sox. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 20, 2015 20:12:38 GMT -5
The conversation started with them talking about Bogaerts. Unless there is someone else you are referring to? Maybe Swihart?
|
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 20, 2015 20:20:56 GMT -5
I don't think Moncada has the hands/footwork for shortstop. It's not just about raw athletic tools (range, arm, etc.), but also about whether he can develop the fine motor skills necessary to play a position that requires very fast hands and feet. Those are his weak points now at 2B, and I'm skeptical that he'll improve enough in those areas to make it worth even considering moving him to shortstop. There are plenty of guys who had the raw athletic tools for shortstop but who could never development the necessary skills to stick there long-term (B.J. Upton, Billy Hamilton, Alfonso Soriano, Adam Jones, etc.). You may very well be right. Like I said, pipe dream that I'd still like to see. I think the footwork issue may be more his problem; his hand-eye is obviously quite good. OTOH, maybe he has less trouble at a rangy position where he's less constrained than at 2b. He seems more comfortable making plays in motion...getting down and set (and square to the ball) at 2b seems to cause him issues. Again, I'm not saying I think he *would* play well there, but what a revelation if he could. |
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 20, 2015 20:28:08 GMT -5
I don't think Moncada has the hands/footwork for shortstop. It's not just about raw athletic tools (range, arm, etc.), but also about whether he can develop the fine motor skills necessary to play a position that requires very fast hands and feet. Those are his weak points now at 2B, and I'm skeptical that he'll improve enough in those areas to make it worth even considering moving him to shortstop. There are plenty of guys who had the raw athletic tools for shortstop but who could never development the necessary skills to stick there long-term (B.J. Upton, Billy Hamilton, Alfonso Soriano, Adam Jones, etc.). He has outgrown the position. People always draw the line according to height, but in this case he's just too filled out and he's not even 21. I think we could try him at 3B but he looks like someone who could be a good COF to me. At 6'1" and 205, that's simply not true at all. Ripken was 6'3", 210-220 and never had Moncada's speed or athleticism. Bogaerts is 6'3"; Jeter was 6'3, 200-215 (yeah, he had terrible range, but after getting specific training for that in his mid-30s he improved substantially for a couple of years)...that's the same kind of argument that said Pedro was too short to start (we all see how that worked out for the Dodgers). If anything, second basemen are of similar size/stature as SS. To repeat, I'm not saying I think it would be a successful experiment or even a good idea, I'd just love to see them find out he can play there...and it can't happen unless they try it. |
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Sept 20, 2015 20:38:50 GMT -5
I think the fact that he's been below-average at 2B so far almost certainly means that he is unable to play SS. I really don't buy the "maybe he'd be less restrained at SS" argument-- I can't imagine a scenario where he (or any other player) makes stronger, more accurate throws on the move as compared to when he has a chance to set his feet. Plus, it's not like SS is his natural position. He played it at times in Cuba, but he was mostly a 2B right before he defected.
|
|
|
|
Post by azblue on Sept 20, 2015 20:45:10 GMT -5
Bogaerts is 6-1.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 20, 2015 21:06:14 GMT -5
He has outgrown the position. People always draw the line according to height, but in this case he's just too filled out and he's not even 21. I think we could try him at 3B but he looks like someone who could be a good COF to me. At 6'1" and 205, that's simply not true at all. Ripken was 6'3", 210-220 and never had Moncada's speed or athleticism. Bogaerts is 6'3"; Jeter was 6'3, 200-215 (yeah, he had terrible range, but after getting specific training for that in his mid-30s he improved substantially for a couple of years)...that's the same kind of argument that said Pedro was too short to start (we all see how that worked out for the Dodgers). If anything, second basemen are of similar size/stature as SS. To repeat, I'm not saying I think it would be a successful experiment or even a good idea, I'd just love to see them find out he can play there...and it can't happen unless they try it. Ripken's lack of athleticism is a folk tale. It's like Maddux's lack of velocity for infielders. |
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 20, 2015 21:13:56 GMT -5
At 6'1" and 205, that's simply not true at all. Ripken was 6'3", 210-220 and never had Moncada's speed or athleticism. Bogaerts is 6'3"; Jeter was 6'3, 200-215 (yeah, he had terrible range, but after getting specific training for that in his mid-30s he improved substantially for a couple of years)...that's the same kind of argument that said Pedro was too short to start (we all see how that worked out for the Dodgers). If anything, second basemen are of similar size/stature as SS. To repeat, I'm not saying I think it would be a successful experiment or even a good idea, I'd just love to see them find out he can play there...and it can't happen unless they try it. Ripken's lack of athleticism is a folk tale. It's like Maddux's lack of velocity for infielders. I didn't say Ripken wasn't athletic. I've read stories from teammates talking about how he would school guys on the basketball court, and about the ludicrous stadium stair-climb exercises he did. I'm just saying that I think Moncada's in another class. I remember Maddux routinely touching mid-90s and working solidly low-90s when he came up, too...he just realized a dart dead-center in the black at 89-91 was better than whipping it in there at 95 and hoping it crossed the plate. |
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 20, 2015 21:17:39 GMT -5
Good call, my bad. But 6'1", 210. So my point re: Moncada not having "outgrown" the position stands. I think Seager and Correa are both around 6'2". |
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Sept 20, 2015 23:00:58 GMT -5
To me a lot of things point toward CF or RF. I'm open to him trying 3rd. It's not like we don't have 2nd base covered also. If we need to trade someone so be it.
|
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Sept 21, 2015 6:32:52 GMT -5
To me a lot of things point toward CF or RF. I'm open to him trying 3rd. It's not like we don't have 2nd base covered also. If we need to trade someone so be it. More and more I see him as third baseman. Sandoval is a joke. He is our joke, but we probably are stuck with him for another year. Moncada conceivably will be close to ready in 2017. He would fit in perfectly at this time at a position of need. I know Devers is showing he can handle the position, but he is further away IMO. As he gets closer, we have a positive decision to make. Moncada at 2nd is a waste currently. |
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Sept 21, 2015 7:43:41 GMT -5
To me a lot of things point toward CF or RF. I'm open to him trying 3rd. It's not like we don't have 2nd base covered also. If we need to trade someone so be it. More and more I see him as third baseman. Sandoval is a joke. He is our joke, but we probably are stuck with him for another year. Moncada conceivably will be close to ready in 2017. He would fit in perfectly at this time at a position of need. I know Devers is showing he can handle the position, but he is further away IMO. As he gets closer, we have a positive decision to make. Moncada at 2nd is a waste currently. Tough to call any of this with the din to re-tool the front line pitching staff (although the decibel level may be lowering). I saw that Moncada had made 23 errors at second in less that a full season. With his athleticism this is probably rust and gaining experience rather than a 2B version of Stuart but..... I don't want to lose Moncada or Devers but I am worried we may in an effort for a #1. Margot I sadly think is likely gone. I expect he is ready to blossom. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,611
|
Post by nomar on Sept 21, 2015 9:00:07 GMT -5
Gotta give up talent to get talent. I don't think Moncada is going anywhere. Devers has a slight chance, but I doubt that too.
I agree Margot is the most likely out of the stud group, and I'm okay with that. He may be due to blow up, but CF is a position of great depth for us, and his batted ball patterns are a bit of a red flag. Very high ground ball rate. I think there's a chance that he ends up being Rusney with a better glove. That's a good player for sure, but not one we cry over losing when we get a few cheap years of a upper rotation starter.
|
|
|
|
Post by wskeleton76 on Sept 21, 2015 9:39:18 GMT -5
Think about red sox. We really need a good 3B. Moncada is the most talented and closest prospect, who can play 3B. I can't understand why he plays 2B although Pedroia signed long contracts. Find Moncada's position first. Then we could debate where we put Devers on the field when he is close.
|
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 21, 2015 23:07:36 GMT -5
I think the fact that he's been below-average at 2B so far almost certainly means that he is unable to play SS. I really don't buy the "maybe he'd be less restrained at SS" argument-- I can't imagine a scenario where he (or any other player) makes stronger, more accurate throws on the move as compared to when he has a chance to set his feet. Plus, it's not like SS is his natural position. He played it at times in Cuba, but he was mostly a 2B right before he defected. Nomar. |
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Sept 22, 2015 6:21:34 GMT -5
That's different-- he was a lifelong SS who was moved to a new position later on in his career and had an adjustment period.
|
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 22, 2015 12:29:23 GMT -5
I don't refuse to admit things when I'm wrong, and often have many times in the past. I was wrong apparently on Cechinni. I thought Don't give up on Cechinni becuase then I'd have to admit the same. There is still hope albeit not much. I once compare him to a poor man's Wade Boggs. |
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 22, 2015 12:43:53 GMT -5
Think about red sox. We really need a good 3B. Moncada is the most talented and closest prospect, who can play 3B. I can't understand why he plays 2B although Pedroia signed long contracts. Find Moncada's position first. Then we could debate where we put Devers on the field when he is close. The latest reports on Devers' D has him sticking at third, in fact I read where his defense has improved considerably and that he continues to work hard at it. Assuming this info. is correct, why are we moving yet another top prospect off his natural position to accommodate an increasingly injured past his prime star? There are alternates. |
|
|
|
Post by izzy on Sept 22, 2015 13:03:03 GMT -5
I once compare him to a poor man's Wade Boggs. Ugh, me too. I remember thinking he was going to be a left-handed Bill Madlock. |
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,821
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 22, 2015 13:33:01 GMT -5
I once compare him to a poor man's Wade Boggs. Ugh, me too. I remember thinking he was going to be a left-handed Bill Madlock. I'm guilty as charged, too, when it comes to Cecchini. I thought he had enough of a hit tool that he'd hit for a decent average, walk a ton, and then over time develop decent power. Kind of a left handed Kevin Youkilis type. I figured he'd improve on defense, too. Meanwhile I thought that at best Travis Shaw was a AAAA player. Whoops again. At worst he's a useful bench player. At best he's the Sox 1b or even 3b next year, hitting 25 homers per year. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 1, 2015 20:51:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by thursty on Oct 1, 2015 21:19:00 GMT -5
Presumably Buxton has graduated? |
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Oct 1, 2015 23:17:29 GMT -5
Presumably Buxton has graduated? He makes the assumption that Buxton will. |
|
|
