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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 24, 2015 10:10:57 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the full context of the reports were that Hanley was asked to slim down because he was returning to the infield. I don't think anyone has ever said that added bulk hindered Hanley this year, or that it at least was the primary problem as opposed to, say, effort on that side of the ball. [...] This Edes story suggests that the Sox think that Hanley's bulk both hindered his defense and contributed to his injuries: espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/47424/red-sox-ask-hanley-ramirez-to-drop-15-20-pounds"David Dombrowski suspects Hanley Ramirez decided it would be a good idea last winter, since he was moving to the outfield, to show up in Red Sox camp as a bulked-up version of himself, all the better to display the power he believed should come with the position. In doing so, however, Ramirez robbed himself of much of his athleticism, which made the move to the outfield painful to watch. In the view of the Red Sox, the added bulk also made him susceptible to injury, which is why, interim manager Torey Lovullo said Sunday, the Sox sent Ramirez home last week with a mandate: Drop 15 to 20 pounds. Ramirez actually looked like he was on to something in April when he slugged a team-leading 10 home runs. But he never looked comfortable in the outfield, often appearing slow and ponderous..." Absolutely. Hanley did not pass the eye test in terms of athleticism or flexibility. Now I am not sure that we know why he had such a drop-off at the plate. Yes he had a few injuries but how debilitating? To me it looked (eye-test again) that pitchers were throwing him hard in and he wasn't able to make contact...speculation only but I wondered then whether the bulk inhibited him in that area. True 14 seconds of video does not give even an expert enough to know what the workout program is. But that body is bulked and not built by Fisher. That much we can see. |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2015 10:22:11 GMT -5
This Edes story suggests that the Sox think that Hanley's bulk both hindered his defense and contributed to his injuries: espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/47424/red-sox-ask-hanley-ramirez-to-drop-15-20-pounds"David Dombrowski suspects Hanley Ramirez decided it would be a good idea last winter, since he was moving to the outfield, to show up in Red Sox camp as a bulked-up version of himself, all the better to display the power he believed should come with the position. In doing so, however, Ramirez robbed himself of much of his athleticism, which made the move to the outfield painful to watch. In the view of the Red Sox, the added bulk also made him susceptible to injury, which is why, interim manager Torey Lovullo said Sunday, the Sox sent Ramirez home last week with a mandate: Drop 15 to 20 pounds. Ramirez actually looked like he was on to something in April when he slugged a team-leading 10 home runs. But he never looked comfortable in the outfield, often appearing slow and ponderous..." Absolutely. Hanley did not pass the eye test in terms of athleticism or flexibility. Now I am not sure that we know why he had such a drop-off at the plate. Yes he had a few injuries but how debilitating? To me it looked (eye-test again) that pitchers were throwing him hard in and he wasn't able to make contact...speculation only but I wondered then whether the bulk inhibited him in that area. True 14 seconds of video does not give even an expert enough to know what the workout program is. But that body is bulked and not built by Fisher. That much we can see. Shoulder injuries sap power bigtime, sometimes for a long time. It seemed that he had trouble turning on the inside pitches, so pitchers attacked him that way and it snowballed. |
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 24, 2015 11:10:37 GMT -5
Absolutely. Hanley did not pass the eye test in terms of athleticism or flexibility. Now I am not sure that we know why he had such a drop-off at the plate. Yes he had a few injuries but how debilitating? To me it looked (eye-test again) that pitchers were throwing him hard in and he wasn't able to make contact...speculation only but I wondered then whether the bulk inhibited him in that area. True 14 seconds of video does not give even an expert enough to know what the workout program is. But that body is bulked and not built by Fisher. That much we can see. Shoulder injuries sap power bigtime, sometimes for a long time. It seemed that he had trouble turning on the inside pitches, so pitchers attacked him that way and it snowballed. Agon had similar power reduction after his shoulder issues a few years ago. He still did hit for average/doubles probably due to him being such a pure hitter. It seemed it took a year or 2 to regain some power. Obviously every shoulder injury is different & hopefully Hanley's doesn't last too long. |
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Post by goldenmonkey34 on Nov 24, 2015 13:12:35 GMT -5
Lets try to keep the thread on Moncada, not Hanley
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 24, 2015 18:23:15 GMT -5
Lets try to keep the thread on Moncada, not Hanley I think that it has been, Mr, Moderator. People are wondering if Moncada as a bulked up guy admiring his guns could limit his production as did Hanley. No one knows but people speculate that bulking up could be counter-productive to performance. Legitimate but not conclusive discourse. |
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 25, 2015 13:49:35 GMT -5
Remember not long ago when "bulking up" was more prevelant. McGuire, Canseco, Sosa, Giambi all seemed to hit fairly well.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 25, 2015 16:14:56 GMT -5
Yoan Moncada's fitness might literally be the last thing anyone needs to worry about.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 25, 2015 18:47:12 GMT -5
Yoan Moncada's fitness might literally be the last thing anyone needs to worry about. Maybe...but define fitness please. I recall Arnold Schwarzenegger's definition was huge musculature. Abebe Bikila of Ethiopia broke the then marathon record time at 135 lbs. and had a heart rate at 44 beats/minute. He averaged 4 minutes 50 second/mile over 26 miles. People would consider that marvel as an ultimate in fitness. I also remember waaay back Chi Chi Rodriguez playing golf with a group of Dallas Cowboys. Chi Chi was a rail thin 120 lbs and blasting the golf ball 300 yards. The Cowboy players, grunting and muscling, could only hit a little over 200 yds. They could not conceive how or why this scrawny guy could hit the ball so much farther than they, so strong and "fit", were able. I don't think that anyone would consider the Sox, with a team of Schwarzeneggers, to be a shoe-in for the world baseball championship. |
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Post by heisenberg on Nov 25, 2015 19:19:47 GMT -5
Yoan Moncada's fitness might literally be the last thing anyone needs to worry about. Maybe...but define fitness please. I recall Arnold Schwarzenegger's definition was huge musculature. Abebe Bikila of Ethiopia broke the then marathon record time at 135 lbs. and had a heart rate at 44 beats/minute. He averaged 4 minutes 50 second/mile over 26 miles. People would consider that marvel as an ultimate in fitness. I also remember waaay back Chi Chi Rodriguez playing golf with a group of Dallas Cowboys. Chi Chi was a rail thin 120 lbs and blasting the golf ball 300 yards. The Cowboy players, grunting and muscling, could only hit a little over 200 yds. They could not conceive how or why this scrawny guy could hit the ball so much farther than they, so strong and "fit", were able. I don't think that anyone would consider the Sox, with a team of Schwarzeneggers, to be a shoe-in for the world baseball championship. Baseball is the wrong sport to look for world class athleticism. We've got fat slobs like Pablo and Prince Fielder. Corner positions are home to recovering alcoholics like Miguel Cabrera and Josh Hamilton. Middle infields are populated with tiny little runts like Pedroia and Jose Altuve. This is a sport that embraced big-boned corn-fed mountain men like Adam Dunn and Carl Luzinski as well as spindly twigs like Randy Johnson and Kent Tekulve. But that's why we love it. No matter how much of a slovenly out of shape sometimes drunkard only a mother could love that you may be, you can imagine yourself playing the game - As long as you can either hit or pitch. If you can't do either, then sure you're just a loser. But, the point remains that there's a fine line between being a major league baseball player and being a loser - A line that can conceivably be crossed without having to be a true "athlete." |
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Post by gerry on Nov 26, 2015 3:29:44 GMT -5
Yes Heisenberg, but Prince and Miggy were moved off their positions for athletic deficiencies. If Panda doesn't trim down enough to pick up the ball and get his co-ordination back, he literally has nowhere to go.
Hanley went from a 50SB athlete to a statue. Many body types, including the Babe and Splendid Splinter, each maximizing a specific skillset for success. A bulked up, immobile Hanley failed in ways he embarrassed himself. A bulked up Moncada, also a 50SB, nimble athlete, might take heed at the de-bulking Hanley is being required to do to restore that once magnificent, athletic skillset.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 27, 2015 14:56:36 GMT -5
Yes Heisenberg, but Prince and Miggy were moved off their positions for athletic deficiencies. If Panda doesn't trim down enough to pick up the ball and get his co-ordination back, he literally has nowhere to go. Hanley went from a 50SB athlete to a statue. Many body types, including the Babe and Splendid Splinter, each maximizing a specific skillset for success. A bulked up, immobile Hanley failed in ways he embarrassed himself. A bulked up Moncada, also a 50SB, nimble athlete, might take heed at the de-bulking Hanley is being required to do to restore that once magnificent, athletic skillset. Agree, at least Miggy & Fielder are lethal hitters.....We have to tell Hanley to get LESS sculped & to REDUCE his muscle. If we could give Sandoval away for .75 cents on the dollar, we've got to do it. Even when Sandoval lost weight in SF he couldn't hit due to his different/lighter body. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 27, 2015 15:32:15 GMT -5
I hope that they are working the phones to deal Moncada after seeing him do
shrugs. He's obviously going to be a bust so they need to cash in on his top prospect status now before more videos of shrugs surface.
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Post by heisenberg on Nov 27, 2015 17:42:34 GMT -5
I hope that they are working the phones to deal Moncada after seeing him do shrugs. He's obviously going to be a bust so they need to cash in on his top prospect status now before more videos of shrugs surface. What are you talking about? This could be a whole new source of team revenue - Player workout videos - Available on Netflix, DVD or VHS cassette.   |
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 27, 2015 18:32:58 GMT -5
I hope that they are working the phones to deal Moncada after seeing him do shrugs. He's obviously going to be a bust so they need to cash in on his top prospect status now before more videos of shrugs surface. I'm with you!! Right on point. |
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Smittyw
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Post by Smittyw on Nov 27, 2015 19:15:56 GMT -5
Plus he is 'blocked' and 'hasn't proven anything.' Ideal trade bait.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 27, 2015 23:06:35 GMT -5
Plus he is 'blocked' and 'hasn't proven anything.' Ideal trade bait. I could not agree more. Let's move him this offseason while he is a super hot commodity, but only as part of a package for an ace or near ace. Miami or Cleveland would be ideal trade partners, |
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 28, 2015 9:52:53 GMT -5
Plus he is 'blocked' and 'hasn't proven anything.' Ideal trade bait. I could not agree more. Let's move him this offseason while he is a super hot commodity, but only as part of a package for an ace or near ace. Miami or Cleveland would be ideal trade partners, Larry - you missed the sarcasm. |
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Post by larrycook on Nov 28, 2015 10:58:17 GMT -5
But still think moncada could bring us back a stud pitcher.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Nov 28, 2015 11:21:31 GMT -5
I really hope that none of you are actually proposing trading Moncada.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 28, 2015 11:48:21 GMT -5
I really hope that none of you are actually proposing trading Moncada. Nope. Some comments marveled at his chiseled torso envisioning a super-stud and some wondered, in light of the Hanley transformation, whether Moncada's admirable bulk, Spanish fly at the beach, would translate well to the baseball field. |
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 28, 2015 12:57:24 GMT -5
But still think moncada could bring us back a stud pitcher. I still think Moncada will be a stud player for the Red Sox not long from now. |
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 29, 2015 2:22:26 GMT -5
I think it's funny how much stock people are putting into Hanley's physique and the whole "he got too yoked" storyline.
If we want to rank why Hanley sucked, here's the breakdown in order of most influential to least influential:
1. He's a career infielder, trying to play outfield.
2. He's not a max effort guy, not the hardest worker, he quits when he's bad at something.
3. His shoulder was really really hurt.
4. He's allergic to outfield grass.
5. The Green Monster made him claustrophobic.
6. He put on too much muscle.
Will slimming down make him more athletic? For sure. But it won't have nearly the effect on him that moving him back to the infield, and getting him healthy will have.
My point being: Let's relax on Moncada. And also let's pretend we've all worked out before and know that how we look mid-workout, with a full pump going, is not how we look an hour later after we've deflated haha
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 9, 2015 11:02:52 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Dec 9, 2015 11:30:25 GMT -5
Love it. If he can be an efficient 30+ stolen base guy in the majors, all the more reason to be excited.
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Post by brendan98 on Dec 9, 2015 12:04:54 GMT -5
I hope the Red Sox are not as eager to deal Moncada as a lot of the folks posting in this thread, the kid has the potential to become a superstar in the game, a face of the franchise type player, at this point it is impossible to say what the chances are that he develops into that, but I know one thing for sure, if the Red Sox trade him we will never find out, correction we will find out, just in another uniform.
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