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5/8-5/10 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by station13 on May 9, 2015 7:04:24 GMT -5
We're 5.5 games behind the MFY...In a tight division, that's a lot of wins in the bank for them! This team is just terrible in all aspects of the game right now and the kids are making it worse: Swihart has no idea where the strike zone is (flirting with a 50% k rate) and X is just pulling last year slump all over again just with a little bit more contact this time. Losing 11 of the last 15 games could be costly at the end of the season..Just terrible, terrible times! Swihart is squaring up the ball, what are you talking about? He is hitting linedrives just right at fielders.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 9, 2015 7:17:17 GMT -5
I love Swihart's long-term ability. We really need a veteran catcher. We can't afford to wait 3 months and hope Hanigan comes back ready to go.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on May 9, 2015 8:09:44 GMT -5
The pitching staff is awful. Going into the season I thought we had a number 2 (Porcello) a number 3 (Miley) and then a bunch of "who the heck knows" and that was the real issue. However, I thought the offense would be a beast. The offense has been "nearly" as bad (based on expectations) as the pitching.
Looking at a quad slash line, the team is 13th/6th/12th/10th (or bottom third) in the AL. In ERA we're 15th (worst in the league). Yes, eventually I think the offense will pick up, but the pitching I'm really not sure about. The staff doesn't need Cole Hamels, it needs three Wei-Yin Chen's.
My greater concern is for all the strengths that I think Farrell has managing a veteran laden team (example 2013), I think he's equally awful at continuing to develop young players once they get to the major leagues. Yes, prospects are variable but when you look at no progress (and in some cases regression) from all of our young players: Middlebrooks, Bradley Jr, De La Rosa, Webster, Ranaudo, Bogaerts, Betts, Kelly and Porcello - that is in my opinion SERIOUS cause for concern - especially when you have a very well respect farm system that is expected to build the core of the team.
This is why I think Farrell should be fired - not because he's inept (I actually think that overall he's a slightly above average manager) but becuase I think his track record is horrendous at continuing to develop talent. The team needs to bring in someone that can repair and develop Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Bradley Jr, Johnson, Rodriguez, etc, etc.
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Post by Guidas on May 9, 2015 8:40:32 GMT -5
The pitching staff is awful. Going into the season I thought we had a number 2 (Porcello) a number 3 (Miley) and then a bunch of "who the heck knows" and that was the real issue. However, I thought the offense would be a beast. The offense has been "nearly" as bad (based on expectations) as the pitching. Looking at a quad slash line, the team is 13th/6th/12th/10th (or bottom third) in the AL. In ERA we're 15th (worst in the league). Yes, eventually I think the offense will pick up, but the pitching I'm really not sure about. The staff doesn't need Cole Hamels, it needs three Wei-Yin Chen's. My greater concern is for all the strengths that I think Farrell has managing a veteran laden team (example 2013), I think he's equally awful at continuing to develop young players once they get to the major leagues. Yes, prospects are variable but when you look at no progress (and in some cases regression) from all of our young players: Middlebrooks, Bradley Jr, De La Rosa, Webster, Ranaudo, Bogaerts, Betts, Kelly and Porcello - that is in my opinion SERIOUS cause for concern - especially when you have a very well respect farm system that is expected to build the core of the team. This is why I think Farrell should be fired - not because he's inept (I actually think that overall he's a slightly above average manager) but becuase I think his track record is horrendous at continuing to develop talent. The team needs to bring in someone that can repair and develop Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, Bradley Jr, Johnson, Rodriguez, etc, etc. Bobby Valentine was brought in to do exactly this. I believe he is available.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on May 9, 2015 8:46:44 GMT -5
It's not the manager's job to develop the players. It's up to them and the hitting and fielding coach's. He's a manager, not an instructor. Most of the hitters have been rushed. Blame our developmental system. He should be able to do better with the pitchers. But, what does he have to work with??
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Post by jimed14 on May 9, 2015 9:02:57 GMT -5
In one sense it is amazing that we are only 13-16 because it feels like we are 10-19.....with no sound reason to hope for a rebound. No hitting, no starting or relief pitching, hamstrung financially, and no light glimmering at tunnel's end. Where is the razor blade? Oh wait.... The football season starts in September. Phew! Reading TX's posts, it feels like we're 0-29.
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Post by Smittyw on May 9, 2015 9:12:35 GMT -5
Gotta love all these comments questioning Farrell's abilities to manage. Never mind that he brought another crappy Ben roster together and won a title. No, he gets no credit for that. But Ben continues to get credit for his roster building skills, as putrid as they are. Leave Ben. Now. You're gone anyway so you might as well bow out gracefully. In his place I'd like to see a GM who realizes that 90% of sure-shot prospects wind up as trash, and will trade them for upgrades of the parent club, like real 1st division teams do. Do you not recall the roster he won with 2 years ago? JFC, man, he was served slop and won with it anyway. The 2013 roster was crappily built? The one that led MLB in runs by 57 runs and just about every offensive category, while being 12th in fWAR on the pitching side? Why on earth does Farrell deserve the credit for that over Cherington? Farrell wasn't the one who decided to acquire Napoli, Victorino, Uehara, Drew, etc. And it's not like we were some team with middle of the road production that was managed brilliantly and just squeezed into the playoffs and found success. We dominated that entire season. Seriously, are you just flat out trolling us? The 2013 team was really bad just like the haters said all along, don't you see?! Farrell just made them look good with his crappy-roster-voodoo (which he somehow wasn't able to work in 2014 or so far in 2015).
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Post by mgoetze on May 9, 2015 9:50:43 GMT -5
Reading TX's posts, it feels like we're 0-29. I don't read them often, but sometimes people quote him and I accidentally see them.
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Post by wcsoxfan on May 9, 2015 10:00:51 GMT -5
I think Farrell is the same guy he was with Toronto and the same guy he was when he was hired: a sub-par game manager who is a very good pitching coach. Up to this point in the year it doesn't appear that his strengthening of the pitching staff has off-set his sub-par game managing but it is still early (and they just brought in a new pitching coach).
On the upside I don't recall a single comment from Farrell or BC implying any sort of rift or break down in communication since they have been with the Red Sox - and that's a definite plus in my book.
(disclaimer: I think a monkey could be taught to manage a baseball team)
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Post by Smittyw on May 9, 2015 10:19:22 GMT -5
Jason Mastrodonato ?@jmastrodonato 4m4 minutes ago Hanley Ramirez taking BP. If he comes through OK he'll play for Red Sox this afternoon. still pain, Farrell said, but good enough to play
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 9, 2015 10:25:45 GMT -5
Many of us are periodically - or regularly - critical of moves that Farrell makes in games, and that's valid criticism because that is part of his job. When a team loses 7-0 and gets only two hits, it is not the manager's fault. No manager can make players hit, field or throw better. That's not his job.
Where a manager can have an impact on performance is by maintaining an atmosphere where the tension is not so great that it interferes with performance. Good managers today help to keep their players focused and competitive but not so intense that they lose concentration.
This isn't football, where intensity is very important. This game requires much more of a person's skills and brain. Keeping players in a state that maximizes concentration is a key part of a manager's job. This is subtle and hardly noticed except when it isn't present, like when Valentine was the manager. Farrell is pretty good in this area. Francona is as well.
It was a valid move to fire the pitching coach. Pitching coaches can help pitchers do better and that wasn't happening.
I don't think it is fair to blame Farrell for this team's performance so far. The flaws in the team are obvious and so is the bad luck in a number of cases. It is not his fault that Napoli isn't hitting, or that Ramirez got hurt, or that two catchers got hurt, or that he was given a mediocre bullpen and starting pitching staff.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on May 9, 2015 10:51:30 GMT -5
Sox lineup still isnt set, guess they are trying too see if Hanley gets through BP. Still though game starts in an hour, cutting it a little close.
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Post by mattpicard on May 9, 2015 10:56:19 GMT -5
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes 1m1 minute ago Hanley hitting bombs to dead center. Guess here is he plays. Farrell has seen enough. Walking back to clubhouse.
Gordon Edes ?@gordonedes now View translation 5/9 at TOR: Betts CF, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Ramirez LF, Sandoval 3B, Napoli 1B, Craig RF, Bogaerts SS, Swihart C, Kelly RHP
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Post by goldenmonkey34 on May 9, 2015 11:02:02 GMT -5
Good old Allen craig
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Post by jimed14 on May 9, 2015 11:10:32 GMT -5
With the ol' -1.3 fWAR as a Red Sox player. Down to 5.1 for his career total now. This is literally giving away wins. And no, Craig isn't the difference between a bad team and a good team. But even Brentz would have to be a replacement level player, let alone Castillo or JBJ. Do they care about Craig's career and how much they can get for him in a trade more than they care about winning? Do they really think that Craig is just a few more weeks of regular playing time away to hitting like Hanley again? Sure seems like it. Maybe they can trade him to the Phillies for Sizemore and Francoeur, since they seem so infatuated on relying on reclamation projects that never work. This is more infuriating than anything Cherington and Farrell have ever done. Can't wait for Victorino to get back.
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Post by soxcentral on May 9, 2015 11:18:37 GMT -5
Many of us are periodically - or regularly - critical of moves that Farrell makes in games, and that's valid criticism because that is part of his job. When a team loses 7-0 and gets only two hits, it is not the manager's fault. No manager can make players hit, field or throw better. That's not his job. True, but they do fill out the lineup card and yesterday's was quite predictably inept through the heart of the order, I think Farrell should be taking quite a bit of the blame honestly. He's poorly managed his bullpen and made a bad situation worse, he picked Victorino over Castilo as his starting RF, and continues to play Napoli and Craig. Not all the blame goes to him of course, starting pitching cost us games, the catching situation blew up, and the core of Pedroia and Ortiz are not performing at elite levels, but he's certainly a part of the problem.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 9, 2015 11:26:41 GMT -5
(disclaimer: I think a monkey could be taught to manage a baseball team) And it would probably win a World Series before Joe Maddon.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 9, 2015 11:53:56 GMT -5
Many of us are periodically - or regularly - critical of moves that Farrell makes in games, and that's valid criticism because that is part of his job. When a team loses 7-0 and gets only two hits, it is not the manager's fault. No manager can make players hit, field or throw better. That's not his job. True, but they do fill out the lineup card and yesterday's was quite predictably inept through the heart of the order, I think Farrell should be taking quite a bit of the blame honestly. He's poorly managed his bullpen and made a bad situation worse, he picked Victorino over Castilo as his starting RF, and continues to play Napoli and Craig. Not all the blame goes to him of course, starting pitching cost us games, the catching situation blew up, and the core of Pedroia and Ortiz are not performing at elite levels, but he's certainly a part of the problem. I doubt that it was Farrell's decision exclusively to pick Victorino over Castillo. I suspect that was an organizational decision. Furthermore, so far I don't think it was wrong. Castillo got hurt in ST and then got hurt again. Victorino, not unexpectedly, also got hurt. I think the team had to give Victorino a chance, as it did with Craig. I think Craig's time is about up and I think that when Victorino comes back it will be his last chance. At least it should be. Should they have gotten rid of both of them during the off-season? Hindsight says yes, but they would have had to give them away, which is not good business. Also, JBJ needed to be at Pawtucket. I think that need is about fulfilled now.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,140
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Post by nomar on May 9, 2015 12:00:59 GMT -5
Spoilers... we win today
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Post by grandsalami on May 9, 2015 12:14:50 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 9, 2015 12:22:26 GMT -5
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Post by soxcentral on May 9, 2015 12:23:55 GMT -5
Dan, perhaps all that is true, let's see how the Victorino and Craig situations play out. JF has shown a bad habit of relying on veterans far too much over the last 3 years. It works great when that's all you have, like in 2013, but not so well when you are the one trying to develop a core of young players for future success as he was last year and this year.
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Post by grandsalami on May 9, 2015 12:25:56 GMT -5
GJGE
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Post by grandsalami on May 9, 2015 12:30:11 GMT -5
What the hell is this?
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Post by jimed14 on May 9, 2015 12:30:22 GMT -5
Dan, perhaps all that is true, let's see how the Victorino and Craig situations play out. JF has shown a bad habit of relying on veterans far too much over the last 3 years. It works great when that's all you have, like in 2013, but not so well when you are the one trying to develop a core of young players for future success as he was last year and this year. It's not so much vets as it is favorites. Craig has to get going with regular at bats, but Nava doesn't. Xander will bat 8th no matter how many guys are batting .100 in front of him. How freakin long is it going to be before Castillo plays? The team is getting NO production out of RF.
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