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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 6, 2015 20:32:42 GMT -5
“@jcrasnick: #Reds are ”open for business“ on everyone at winter meetings, source says. Todd Frazier included.” So they are getting enough of a haul for Chapman to punt on 2016 and 2017 it seems. So Votto is in play now.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 6, 2015 21:22:03 GMT -5
“@jcrasnick: #Reds are ”open for business“ on everyone at winter meetings, source says. Todd Frazier included.” So they are getting enough of a haul for Chapman to punt on 2016 and 2017 it seems. So Votto is in play now. Votto said a few days ago that he won't waive his no trade clause under any circumstances. He loves Cinci and plans to play his career there.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2015 22:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by kman22 on Dec 6, 2015 22:38:54 GMT -5
I couldn't even pick which offer was the most bizarre/ridiculous on that list. Wow.
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 6, 2015 22:47:37 GMT -5
Of that entire article, the one really salient point was using Shaw in a utility role would diminish his high value. Good to know he's seen that way right now. He could certainly be a valuable piece in any deal for pitching. I was kind of diminishing his worth, and now see that was incorrect thinking. Marrero and Holt could man the utility roles, and while there us a falloff offensively from Shaw to Marrero, the 3 position versitility of Marrero, especially at SS, may prove more desired anyway.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 6, 2015 22:59:43 GMT -5
I believe that Cafardo has earned a lifetime honorary membership to the trade proposal subforum with this post.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 23:04:41 GMT -5
If that's Cafardo saying this it has no shot at happening whatsoever. He's the biggest blockhead of a writer that covers the Sox on a daily basis. He so reminds me of the Les Nessman character from WKRP in Cincinnati. Les was stuck in the 50s. Nick is stuck in the 70s.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 6, 2015 23:08:40 GMT -5
Probably not enough to get the deal done, but I like his thinking. Ps: need to figure out how to work Hanley in the deal.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 23:14:08 GMT -5
Probably not enough to get the deal done, but I like his thinking. Ps: need to figure out how to work Hanley in the deal. If the Indians want an outfielder which is something they need it's probably JBJ they're looking at. JBJ, Owens, and Shaw at least gets the conversation for Carrasco started. Unfortunately the market for outfielders this year that aren't top tier are pretty mediocre. DeAza, Murphy, and Parra are the best options available and that's not too inspiring. I think it would be tough replacing JBJ going forward, especially if Rusney isn't the answer. You figure Benintendi down the road and Betts will comprise two thirds of the outfield and Margot isn't around anymore so either JBJ or Rusney is going to have to be that 3rd guy now and in the future.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2015 23:18:49 GMT -5
I believe that Cafardo has earned a lifetime honorary membership to the trade proposal subforum with this post. White Sox I — Dustin Pedroia for Jose Quintana. Comment: Don’t think the Red Sox would trade their de facto captain, especially with Ortiz leaving after this year. But anything is possible 14. Padres II — Shaw and Brian Johnson for Tyson Ross. Comment: I’ll pass on this one. 16. Reds – Owens, Holt, and a mid-level prospect for Todd Frazier. Comment: A few things would have to take place before Frazier comes to the Red Sox. For one, they’d have to move Ramirez and/or Sandoval to make room at first or third 19. Tigers – Ramirez for Justin Verlander. Comment: Two bad contracts (Verlander has four more years at $28 million per year, plus a vesting option for a fifth year), but this one was already officially shot down by Dombrowski and Tigers GM Al Avila.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 6, 2015 23:22:50 GMT -5
Probably not enough to get the deal done, but I like his thinking. Ps: need to figure out how to work Hanley in the deal. If the Indians want an outfielder which is something they need it's probably JBJ they're looking at. JBJ, Owens, and Shaw at least gets the conversation for Carrasco started. Unfortunately the market for outfielders this year that aren't top tier are pretty mediocre. DeAza, Murphy, and Parra are the best options available and that's not too inspiring. I think it would be tough replacing JBJ going forward, especially if Rusney isn't the answer. You figure Benintendi down the road and Betts will comprise two thirds of the outfield and Margot isn't around anymore so either JBJ or Rusney is going to have to be that 3rd guy now and in the future. How far down the road is benintendi? Late 2016 or 2017?
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Post by Alonzo on Dec 6, 2015 23:24:03 GMT -5
Basically zero (except the ones with Ramirez plus money for a bag of balls) of those proposals make sense. He would give away Devers and Swihart for Shelby Miller. On top of that he thinks that the same package plus Kelly and Owens is enough to mount the difference between Miller and Sale.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 23:25:13 GMT -5
If the Indians want an outfielder which is something they need it's probably JBJ they're looking at. JBJ, Owens, and Shaw at least gets the conversation for Carrasco started. Unfortunately the market for outfielders this year that aren't top tier are pretty mediocre. DeAza, Murphy, and Parra are the best options available and that's not too inspiring. I think it would be tough replacing JBJ going forward, especially if Rusney isn't the answer. You figure Benintendi down the road and Betts will comprise two thirds of the outfield and Margot isn't around anymore so either JBJ or Rusney is going to have to be that 3rd guy now and in the future. How far down the road is benintendi? Late 2016 or 2017? I'd say 2017. I'd be surprised, not necessarily shocked, but surprised if we saw Benintendi this season. They'd definitely need somebody to platoon with Young if JBJ was used in a deal, and losing him would really hurt their outfield defense. That OF defense was a big difference maker in the 2nd half of the season and DDo saw that first hand.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 23:26:00 GMT -5
Basically zero (except the ones with Ramirez plus money for a bag of balls) of those proposals make sense. He would give away Devers and Swihart for Shelby Miller. On top of that he thinks that the same package plus Kelly and Owens is enough to mount the difference between Miller and Sale. I really don't know how that guy has a job. (Shrug)
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2015 23:30:50 GMT -5
Just read it. There are too many good trades in that article.
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 6, 2015 23:35:21 GMT -5
Guys, in fairness to Nock, these are suggestions solicited from baseball people he has spoken with at the meetings. Only Sale was his thought.
I agree with GS, there are a few concepts there that deserve consideration. I wasn't surprised to see Jolts name so often. He's the new Ben Zobrist.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2015 0:00:42 GMT -5
God... one globe article by Speier can be so good, then the next by Cafardo can make me physically ill.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2015 0:04:50 GMT -5
Guys, in fairness to Nock, these are suggestions solicited from baseball people he has spoken with at the meetings. Only Sale was his thought. I agree with GS, there are a few concepts there that deserve consideration. I wasn't surprised to see Jolts name so often. He's the new Ben Zobrist. I hear you, but still Cafardo is awful. When I was a teenager/college age, I would run to any convenience store I could find on Sunday morning looking for Peter Gammons' column in the Globe. Living in CT, it wasn't always easy to find the one or two copies of the Sunday Globe available. To think it has gone from that kind of quality to what it is today is kind of sad.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 7, 2015 0:08:12 GMT -5
That list is horrific and I don't care how many "baseball sources" that includes. That's flinging a whole bunch of **** at a wall and calling it art.
He should cross-check 3/4 of those "trade proposals" with teams needs and he could eliminate most of them. Cafardo should rename his mailbag "junk mail"
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 7, 2015 0:23:35 GMT -5
Speaking of Gammons, he was on MLB Network and said that "Brantley's injury is more serious than the Indians had anticipated and that the surgery was much more complex than they originally thought. That he could be out until August+".
As for whoever posted the Reds tweet, I hope we're all over Votto.
Other deals I'd like us to pursue, Freeman and Shelby Miller.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2015 0:32:41 GMT -5
Shelby Miller is a huge gamble. You're basically betting on him starting to strike out more batters like he did in the minors. He'd also face a dropoff switching to the AL. I don't see him as a risk worth taking considering the likely price tag.
I love Votto, but first you'd have to deal Hanley. That's two huge trades or one insane 3 way deal. I won't say there's no chance, but it's hard to imagine.
If Cafardo could ever be right about one thing, I would hope it's that Carrasco proposal.
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 7, 2015 0:41:59 GMT -5
OK, I'm going to play Nicks game, and see where it takes me. I'm picking what I see as the best suggestions offered.
First to unload Hanley to the Mariners for PTBNL. 11M AAV reduction
Buchholz, Kelly, and Sandoval for Richards, assume half of Sandoval 22M AAV reduction
Owens and Shaw for Carrasco 8M AAV add
Sign Chris Davis and his Aderal prescription 21M AAV add
My adds: Since Miley wasn't listed in any proposed deals, I'm trading him to KC for Herrera 7.5M AAV reduction
Sign an IFU for 2M and 2 years. Add 2M AAV
Payroll would drop by 9.5M, or to about 185M after arb raises.
Price, Carrasco, Richards, Porcello, Rodriguez Kimbrel, Uehara, Tazawa, Herrera, Ross, Layne, Wright Betts, Pedroia, Ortiz, Bogaerts, Davis, Swihart, Bradley, Castillo, Marrero, with Holt, IFU, Young and Hanigan
I'd do that if I could wave my magic wand.
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 7, 2015 0:46:32 GMT -5
Guys, in fairness to Nock, these are suggestions solicited from baseball people he has spoken with at the meetings. Only Sale was his thought. I agree with GS, there are a few concepts there that deserve consideration. I wasn't surprised to see Jolts name so often. He's the new Ben Zobrist. I hear you, but still Cafardo is awful. When I was a teenager/college age, I would run to any convenience store I could find on Sunday morning looking for Peter Gammons' column in the Globe. Living in CT, it wasn't always easy to find the one or two copies of the Sunday Globe available. To think it has gone from that kind of quality to what it is today is kind of sad. I agree the quality of Globe reporters has been weak. But who could measure up to Gammons, Ryan, Montvale, et al? Alex joining them was a huge step forward, now if they'd only get him more column space, and less for Nick and Pete A, we'd all be happier. CHB is a sad follow up to Egan btw.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 7, 2015 1:40:05 GMT -5
Pete Abe feels like he's in Henry & Co's pocket lol. No shock he broke the Price signing.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 7, 2015 1:57:16 GMT -5
Apparently the Marlins are talking Fernandez with the Dodgers and a few other teams.
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