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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 11, 2015 20:51:36 GMT -5
Napoli won't be here and neither will Travis Shaw unless they plan to embrace the 75-win or bust motto of the Mets. Well if we're not gonna make the playoffs which is clear, we could always see if we could improve his stock. If not then he helps our draft pick next year. I don't think it's entirely clear. Teams have come back from 8 games back on June 11th. Letting Travis Shaw put up a 900 OPS in AAA is probably just as useful for his stock as putting up a 600 OPS in Boston.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 20:51:44 GMT -5
How can Ben Cherington look John Henry in the face?
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jun 11, 2015 20:52:34 GMT -5
Not to be captain hindsight but I didn't like the Pablo Sandoval signing at the time and was lukewarm at best on it. Its looking pretty brutal so far...and its only year one. Time will tell but really not looking good.
I guess that's what happens when your next best 3B options are WMB and non utility Brock Holt.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 11, 2015 20:55:47 GMT -5
^Amazing how much better Donaldson has been thus far. Already 4.1 fWAR better than Sandoval. Of course, I've been .3 better than Sandoval thus far too, so it's not a high bar to clear.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 11, 2015 20:56:31 GMT -5
So nomar, you still feeling good about that greatest Sox win since clinching the 2013 WS? It was a singularly great game. Name me a more exciting or entertaining game since.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 11, 2015 20:58:40 GMT -5
Alright, so we can't even fall back on the "they're only 3 games back in this weak division" thing anymore. This team has a bad record, bad scored/allowed numbers, and now they're buried in the standings.
I like to think I'm one of the more patient baseball fans out there. I don't tend to get too worked up over a bad game or a bad week or even a bad month. But... this team is just bad.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 11, 2015 21:02:36 GMT -5
Weren't Sandoval and Hanley supposed to be injury prone players? I would like to see one of them on the DL.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 11, 2015 21:06:10 GMT -5
Well if we're not gonna make the playoffs which is clear, we could always see if we could improve his stock. If not then he helps our draft pick next year. I don't think it's entirely clear. Teams have come back from 8 games back on June 11th. Letting Travis Shaw put up a 900 OPS in AAA is probably just as useful for his stock as putting up a 600 OPS in Boston. Nah its entirely clear. Team sucks and any Sox fan is feeling the same way they did in 12 and 14, hopeless.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 21:06:53 GMT -5
Alright, so we can't even fall back on the "they're only 3 games back in this weak division" thing anymore. This team has a bad record, bad scored/allowed numbers, and now they're buried in the standings. I like to think I'm one of the more patient baseball fans out there. I don't tend to get too worked up over a bad game or a bad week or even a bad month. But... this team is just bad. Our front office does a good job with amateur talent. They are absolutely pathetic at evaluating MLB players and roster composition. We really need a professional GM. Someone who has a scouting background and knows the numbers. Not just a numbers geek who thinks that's all that matters.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:15:57 GMT -5
Alright, so we can't even fall back on the "they're only 3 games back in this weak division" thing anymore. This team has a bad record, bad scored/allowed numbers, and now they're buried in the standings. I like to think I'm one of the more patient baseball fans out there. I don't tend to get too worked up over a bad game or a bad week or even a bad month. But... this team is just bad. Our front office does a good job with amateur talent. They are absolutely pathetic at evaluating MLB players and roster composition. We really need a professional GM. Someone who has a scouting background and knows the numbers. Not just a numbers geek who thinks that's all that matters. I disagree about the scouting background. I think we need a stats oriented GM who isn't a prospect hoarder like Ben is. Theo was great for us
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 11, 2015 21:17:58 GMT -5
Once the NBA and NHL Finals are over, it's really going to suck watching this pile of dogcrap every night. You can always watch other teams play too. ESPN has games on Monday, Wednesday and Sunday and then MLB Network has Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday usually. Then there are Saturday games usually. I watched a real tense game between Atlanta and San Diego today. There is good baseball and good sports entertainment out there. Sadly not much, win or lose with the Sox. WNBA is back and the level of play gets better every year. Also got the College World Series.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 21:20:53 GMT -5
Our front office does a good job with amateur talent. They are absolutely pathetic at evaluating MLB players and roster composition. We really need a professional GM. Someone who has a scouting background and knows the numbers. Not just a numbers geek who thinks that's all that matters. I disagree about the scouting background. I think we need a stats oriented GM who isn't a prospect hoarder like Ben is. Theo was great for us Our stats orientated front office is the reason we're in the predicament we are. #truth
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2015 21:21:31 GMT -5
Alright, so we can't even fall back on the "they're only 3 games back in this weak division" thing anymore. This team has a bad record, bad scored/allowed numbers, and now they're buried in the standings. I like to think I'm one of the more patient baseball fans out there. I don't tend to get too worked up over a bad game or a bad week or even a bad month. But... this team is just bad. Our front office does a good job with amateur talent. They are absolutely pathetic at evaluating MLB players and roster composition. We really need a professional GM. Someone who has a scouting background and knows the numbers. Not just a numbers geek who thinks that's all that matters. I've never been accused of being a "In Ben I trust" guy, but the difference in 2013 - as lucky as it was - was no Valentine and virtually all MLB players who were added on value deals. As for amateur talent, they've made their share of mistakes there too - last year with projections on Xander and JBJ integrating, if not seamlessly, then adequately into an MLB team while ignoring the team's prior cautions with getting enough minor league at bats, especially at AAA. Same may be said for Mookie this year based giving him a starting job largely leveraged off a spectacular small sample MLB stint from last year. And if they were such great evaluators of minor league talent, Reddick and probably Iglesias would still be on this team, and Joc Pederson would've been the "must have" instead of Allen Webster in the Nick Punto deal. All front offices have their flaws. This one has its share, and may also possess a bit too much of "the smartest guys in the room no matter who else is in the room" syndrome, but the blanket statements just don't hold.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:23:02 GMT -5
I disagree about the scouting background. I think we need a stats oriented GM who isn't a prospect hoarder like Ben is. Theo was great for us Our stats orientated front office is the reason we're in the predicament we are. #truth False, our stats oriented front office is the reason we've won 3 world series' in the past 10 years. The reason we're in the predicament is the prospect hoarding of Cherington. Why the hell didn't he go get Donaldson instead of Sandoval? Not just hindsight.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:24:09 GMT -5
Our front office does a good job with amateur talent. They are absolutely pathetic at evaluating MLB players and roster composition. We really need a professional GM. Someone who has a scouting background and knows the numbers. Not just a numbers geek who thinks that's all that matters. I've never been accused of being a "In Ben I trust" guy, but the difference in 2013 - as lucky as it was - was no Valentine and virtually all MLB players who were added on value deals. As for amateur talent, they've made their share of mistakes there too - last year with projections on Xander and JBJ integrating, if not seamlessly, then adequately into an MLB team while ignoring the team's prior cautions with getting enough minor league at bats, especially at AAA. Same may be said for Mookie this year based giving him a starting job largely leveraged off a spectacular small sample MLB stint from last year. And if they were such great evaluators of minor league talent, Reddick and probably Iglesias would still be on this team, and Joc Pederson would've been the "must have" instead of Allen Webster in the Nick Punto deal. All front offices have their flaws. This one has its share, and may also possess a bit too much of "the smartest guys in the room no matter who else is in the room" syndrome, but the blanket statements just don't hold. why Iglesias? That was one of the 3 good trades Ben made ever (Dodgers, that one, E-Rod)
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 21:25:48 GMT -5
Our stats orientated front office is the reason we're in the predicament we are. #truth False, our stats oriented front office is the reason we've won 3 world series' in the past 10 years. The reason we're in the predicament is the prospect hoarding of Cherington. Why the hell didn't he go get Donaldson instead of Sandoval? Not just hindsight. We didn't have a 3b Beane wanted. We've also missed the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Something ain't working.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:28:34 GMT -5
False, our stats oriented front office is the reason we've won 3 world series' in the past 10 years. The reason we're in the predicament is the prospect hoarding of Cherington. Why the hell didn't he go get Donaldson instead of Sandoval? Not just hindsight. We didn't have a 3b Beane wanted. We've also missed the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Something ain't working. yes, the thing that isn't working is the prospect hoarding. The best prospect we've traded under Cherington is Iglesias. Theo won less than 89 games ONCE and he was a stats guy. He could actually trade prospects though. Almost every FO in the MLB is stats oriented. The only ones who aren't are the Phillies and the Marlins. Those teams suck. Stats work. The problem is clearly the prospect hoarding.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 11, 2015 21:33:37 GMT -5
I've never been accused of being a "In Ben I trust" guy, but the difference in 2013 - as lucky as it was - was no Valentine and virtually all MLB players who were added on value deals. As for amateur talent, they've made their share of mistakes there too - last year with projections on Xander and JBJ integrating, if not seamlessly, then adequately into an MLB team while ignoring the team's prior cautions with getting enough minor league at bats, especially at AAA. Same may be said for Mookie this year based giving him a starting job largely leveraged off a spectacular small sample MLB stint from last year. And if they were such great evaluators of minor league talent, Reddick and probably Iglesias would still be on this team, and Joc Pederson would've been the "must have" instead of Allen Webster in the Nick Punto deal. All front offices have their flaws. This one has its share, and may also possess a bit too much of "the smartest guys in the room no matter who else is in the room" syndrome, but the blanket statements just don't hold. why Iglesias? That was one of the 3 good trades Ben made ever (Dodgers, that one, E-Rod) Because you didn't get anything from Peavy that you we're getting from Workman at the time. And Peavy was no difference maker in the playoffs.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 21:34:43 GMT -5
So, 28/30 teams are doing it right. A team with our payroll shouldn't miss the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Poor evaluation of major league talent is our problem. Let guys like; Beltre and Lester go. Signed bums like; Crawford, Sandoval and Lackey. Poor trades. Reddick, Iglesias. Those moves were all made because the figures backed them up. Why did they fail? The person making the decision has to know more than stats.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:37:20 GMT -5
So, 28/30 teams are doing it right. A team with our payroll shouldn't miss the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Poor evaluation of major league talent is our problem. Let guys like; Beltre and Lester go. Signed bums like; Crawford, Sandoval and Lackey. Poor trades. Reddick, Iglesias. Those moves were all made because the figures backed them up. Why did they fail? The person making the decision has to know more than stats. You realize Beltre was way more supported by the stats than Lackey. No stats guy would ever tell you to trade talented young players for relievers. Its not the freaking stats, its that we used to add a superstar through trades once every 4 or so years, and it just hasn't come because were prospect hoarding
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:40:01 GMT -5
Also, Cherington WAS a scout. Theo was the guy with no scouting background and he was 2000x better than Cherington. Cheringtons scouting background probably makes him hoard prospects. Scouting is useful for minor leagues and Intel. For making major decisions, stats should be much more important.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 11, 2015 21:47:34 GMT -5
Not to be captain hindsight but I didn't like the Pablo Sandoval signing at the time and was lukewarm at best on it. Its looking pretty brutal so far...and its only year one. Time will tell but really not looking good. I guess that's what happens when your next best 3B options are WMB and non utility Brock Holt. Honestly. What other 3B could we have signed? This years and next years 3B class is very weak. And we have no 3B in the minors close to ready.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2015 21:49:02 GMT -5
So, 28/30 teams are doing it right. A team with our payroll shouldn't miss the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. Poor evaluation of major league talent is our problem. Let guys like; Beltre and Lester go. Signed bums like; Crawford, Sandoval and Lackey. Poor trades. Reddick, Iglesias. Those moves were all made because the figures backed them up. Why did they fail? The person making the decision has to know more than stats. You realize Beltre was way more supported by the stats than Lackey. No stats guy would ever tell you to trade talented young players for relievers. Its not the freaking stats, its that we used to add a superstar through trades once every 4 or so years, and it just hasn't come because were prospect hoarding Small market teams are able to keep their stars now. It's harder to trade for them. We did a study that said free-agency and 30 something's isn't the way to go. Try the shorter term free agents. Not, the 7-8 year guys. What superstar could we have gotten if we didn't hoard prospects?
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 11, 2015 21:49:27 GMT -5
why Iglesias? That was one of the 3 good trades Ben made ever (Dodgers, that one, E-Rod) Because you didn't get anything from Peavy that you we're getting from Workman at the time. And Peavy was no difference maker in the playoffs. Peavy helped us win a WS so I call it a win.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jun 11, 2015 21:52:39 GMT -5
You realize Beltre was way more supported by the stats than Lackey. No stats guy would ever tell you to trade talented young players for relievers. Its not the freaking stats, its that we used to add a superstar through trades once every 4 or so years, and it just hasn't come because were prospect hoarding Small market teams are able to keep their stars now. It's harder to trade for them. We did a study that said free-agency and 30 something's isn't the way to go. Try the shorter term free agents. Not, the 7-8 year guys. What superstar could we have gotten if we didn't hoard prospects? Donaldson, Price, etc
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