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6/9-6/11 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2015 12:49:45 GMT -5
My only hope at this point is that the Sox don't recover enough to be a .500ish kind of team. That would be utterly useless. Either win the division or tank (which I think they're more likely to do) and get a protected 1st round pick and draft high in what is supposed to be a strong draft class. I understand and accept this narrative more than I used to, but after so many years of following the Sox when they didn't have high draft picks, I would rather they try and be proactive to field a winning club (i.e. .500 club) this year and not worry about trying to get a high draft pick. This club has money and aging veterans coming off the books next year, has young promising players learning on the job and getting valuable experience and has an already good farm system with which to work from. If this team were the 2015 Phillies, I would agree, but it has a different roster construction. If they remain 5 or 6 games out of the wildcard by the time the deadline rolls around, I'd prefer they keep the guys and make a run for the 2 playoff spots, and risk a middling draft pick, understanding that a trade that does help the long term health of the franchise has to be considered. A tank or sell-off just doesn't seem like it should be considered. I'm not suggesting that the Sox throw games in an effort to tank. The Sox are trying - I'm not questioning their effort, and they're still doing what they've done for three of the past four years - lose. If the Sox are where they are now come July 31st and still under .500 and I suspect they will be, then I don't want to see them spend resources so they can try to improve to be an 83-79 team. Where does that get you? And it's not like the Sox, unlike last year, have a ton to auction off either. I suppose Buchholz, Napoli, or Uehara could be auctioned off, but honestly, if Buchholz is pitching well enough that picking up his option is a real option, then the Sox don't need to trade him as he could help beyond 2015 for a reasonable price, and Uehara is somebody that the Sox would have to probably help another team pay for his contract. I can't see another team wanting to pick up Uehara's 2016 contract. So that leaves Napoli. Perhaps the Cardinals get interested, but you wouldn't get a lot for him. Maybe a fringe starter or a reliever? The only thing I would say, and I think it's reasonable, is if the Sox are as bad as they are now and .500 still constitutes a substantial winning streak (which for the Sox is 3 games or more these days), I don't see the use of dealing a Margot or a Devers in hopes of the Sox catching a 2nd Wild Card spot and one potential day in the playoffs. Frankly, I'm not too worried about it. I think that the Yankees are going to eventually be double digit games ahead of the Red Sox in the division soon. This is hardly the greatest Yankees team I've ever seen, but I think it's their year as far as winning the division goes. Their pitching and defense are certainly solid enough. So that leaves the Wild Card. At least one team in the AL Central should get the Wild Card, and at this point, the Sox have only established that they're better than the A's, so if the Sox keep on doing what they've been doing, then we'll be seeing a good draft pick next year. Other than that and watching the kids improve, there's not much else to look forward to this year. Might as well keep the farm improving.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 10, 2015 13:04:17 GMT -5
I understand and accept this narrative more than I used to, but after so many years of following the Sox when they didn't have high draft picks, I would rather they try and be proactive to field a winning club (i.e. .500 club) this year and not worry about trying to get a high draft pick. This club has money and aging veterans coming off the books next year, has young promising players learning on the job and getting valuable experience and has an already good farm system with which to work from. If this team were the 2015 Phillies, I would agree, but it has a different roster construction. If they remain 5 or 6 games out of the wildcard by the time the deadline rolls around, I'd prefer they keep the guys and make a run for the 2 playoff spots, and risk a middling draft pick, understanding that a trade that does help the long term health of the franchise has to be considered. A tank or sell-off just doesn't seem like it should be considered. I'm not suggesting that the Sox throw games in an effort to tank. The Sox are trying - I'm not questioning their effort, and they're still doing what they've done for three of the past four years - lose. If the Sox are where they are now come July 31st and still under .500 and I suspect they will be, then I don't want to see them spend resources so they can try to improve to be an 83-79 team. Where does that get you? And it's not like the Sox, unlike last year, have a ton to auction off either. I suppose Buchholz, Napoli, or Uehara could be auctioned off, but honestly, if Buchholz is pitching well enough that picking up his option is a real option, then the Sox don't need to trade him as he could help beyond 2015 for a reasonable price, and Uehara is somebody that the Sox would have to probably help another team pay for his contract. I can't see another team wanting to pick up Uehara's 2016 contract. So that leaves Napoli. Perhaps the Cardinals get interested, but you wouldn't get a lot for him. Maybe a fringe starter or a reliever? The only thing I would say, and I think it's reasonable, is if the Sox are as bad as they are now and .500 still constitutes a substantial winning streak (which for the Sox is 3 games or more these days), I don't see the use of dealing a Margot or a Devers in hopes of the Sox catching a 2nd Wild Card spot and one potential day in the playoffs. Frankly, I'm not too worried about it. I think that the Yankees are going to eventually be double digit games ahead of the Red Sox in the division soon. This is hardly the greatest Yankees team I've ever seen, but I think it's their year as far as winning the division goes. Their pitching and defense are certainly solid enough. So that leaves the Wild Card. At least one team in the AL Central should get the Wild Card, and at this point, the Sox have only established that they're better than the A's, so if the Sox keep on doing what they've been doing, then we'll be seeing a good draft pick next year. Other than that and watching the kids improve, there's not much else to look forward to this year. Might as well keep the farm improving. maybe the playoffs?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 10, 2015 13:20:09 GMT -5
What happens when Masterson is activated? He can't possibly bump anyone else out of the rotation. Yeah, I can't see that happening. Probably Wright to Pawtucket.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 10, 2015 13:27:55 GMT -5
Or Barnes.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 10, 2015 13:38:17 GMT -5
I thought that his average was the result of bad Karma or unreasonably low BABIP especially if he strikes out at 12%. Regress to the norm...Regress to the Norm! Really, Mookie will be fine.......next year. See Xander. BTW, would anyone swap Panda at $20M for Middlebrooks right now. Will has 8 homers and bats about the same.....just a slight difference in salary. Middlebrooks has a .271 OBP. No freakin way. He's still bad. Yup, you are right. Panda is at a heart-stopping .303 OBP. Middlebrooks is 31 pts higher in OPS, 2 years younger, a lot slimmer and mucho pesos cheaper. Put it this way. Would you give up Middlebrooks to take on Panda and his salary given what we have seen so far?....okay, okay what if I threw in Heidi Watney
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 10, 2015 13:40:00 GMT -5
Middlebrooks has a .271 OBP. No freakin way. He's still bad. Yup, you are right. Panda is at a heart-stopping .303 OBP. Middlebrooks is 31 pts higher in OPS, 2 years younger, a lot slimmer and mucho pesos cheaper. Put it this way. Would you give up Middlebrooks to take on Panda and his salary given what we have seen so far?....okay, okay what if I threw in Heidi Watney Almost everyone here was sick of WMB after last season. So.........
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 10, 2015 13:45:50 GMT -5
This is cute:
Clay Buchholz, 75 FIP-, 82 xFIP-, 3.25 SIERA. Ed. Rodriguez, 74 FIP-, 83 xFIP-, 3.26 SIERA.
Of 166 starters with 20 IP, they rank:
19th and 20th in FIP- 23rd and 24th in xFIP- 22nd and 23rd in SIERA (league-adjusted)
... and 1st and 79th in ERA-.
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Post by jmei on Jun 10, 2015 13:50:07 GMT -5
Middlebrooks has a .271 OBP. No freakin way. He's still bad. Yup, you are right. Panda is at a heart-stopping .303 OBP. Middlebrooks is 31 pts higher in OPS, 2 years younger, a lot slimmer and mucho pesos cheaper. Put it this way. Would you give up Middlebrooks to take on Panda and his salary given what we have seen so far?....okay, okay what if I threw in Heidi Watney Maybe it's a bad idea to judge players solely based on two months' worth of at bats.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 10, 2015 14:00:10 GMT -5
To Pawtucket? He's being used in high leverage late-inning situations by Farrell. What makes you think they'd option him?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2015 14:08:18 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting that the Sox throw games in an effort to tank. The Sox are trying - I'm not questioning their effort, and they're still doing what they've done for three of the past four years - lose. If the Sox are where they are now come July 31st and still under .500 and I suspect they will be, then I don't want to see them spend resources so they can try to improve to be an 83-79 team. Where does that get you? Wouldn't bet on that. The Sox have won 3 championships in recent times. They won 98 games, 96 games, and 97 games, respectively, and most definitely had the talent to win all three years. I don't like the odds of a team going 83-79, squeaking into the Wild Card as a very flawed team and then winning 12 games. It's not like the Sox have somebody the caliber of Madison Bumgarner either. Besides, 83-79 won't get a playoff spot, and I'm not certain the Sox are even good enough to go 83-79.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 10, 2015 14:14:20 GMT -5
Cardinals won the WS after winning 83 games in 2006.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 10, 2015 14:48:48 GMT -5
No Ortiz today
Pedroia Holt Ramirez Nap Bogey Sandoval Betts Swihart Castillo
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 10, 2015 15:43:22 GMT -5
No Ortiz today Pedroia Holt Ramirez Nap Bogey Sandoval Betts Swihart Castillo Ortiz stilling against a lefty, Bogaerts in the top 5, I'm imagining every member of the forum holding hands in a circle, dancing and singing peace songs.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2015 15:47:50 GMT -5
Cardinals won the WS after winning 83 games in 2006. Great, out of approximately 112 World Champions, you were able to come up with 1 World Champ who won 83 games. And I'll even hand you the 1987 Twins who went 85-77 and happened to somehow have a very needed home field advantage along the way. I don't personally like those odds of trying to catch lightning in a bottle. The Cards did have the advantage of winning the division at 83-78 which I don't think will be the case this year and they didn't have to worry about a one game playoff just to get to the NLDS.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 10, 2015 15:54:46 GMT -5
“@bryanhoch: Girardi: Andrew Miller going to DL with strained muscle in forearm. Dellin Betances will slide in as the regular closer.”
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 10, 2015 16:09:47 GMT -5
Cardinals won the WS after winning 83 games in 2006. Great, out of approximately 112 World Champions, you were able to come up with 1 World Champ who won 83 games. And I'll even hand you the 1987 Twins who went 85-77 and happened to somehow have a very needed home field advantage along the way. I don't personally like those odds of trying to catch lightning in a bottle. The Cards did have the advantage of winning the division at 83-78 which I don't think will be the case this year and they didn't have to worry about a one game playoff just to get to the NLDS. Well, it's not out of 112 years. It's out of the years since the wild card. There has been a 2nd one added since 2006. Someday there will be a WS winner which was under .500. Regardless of that, I wouldn't be shocked at all if the winner of the AL East has 83 wins this year.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 10, 2015 16:25:35 GMT -5
No. But that at-bat reminded me of how irritating the claims that Holt should be a starter are. Really, it was mostly frustration with a monumental failure to do the one job he had that game...deliver contact. I like Holt, but he's not an everyday player IMO. Maybe for a team that doesn't have Pedroia at 2b, but that's not the team he's on. That looks like you're basing it on one at bat. Look at his stats. Everyone strikes out. Everyone strikes out with runners in scoring position. You're just blaming Holt because no one else drove in any runs. Not everything everyone says on here is intended to be taken entirely seriously. I made it very clear in another response that I was aware of the extreme hyperbole. I'm irritated with Holt because he failed to do one of the cardinal things a #2 hitter should be able to do. If it looks to you like I'm basing my whole assessment of him on one at bat, that's your perception and I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you otherwise. Your point is taken. You needn't rush to Brock's defense any longer.
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Post by jmei on Jun 10, 2015 16:27:38 GMT -5
Cardinals won the WS after winning 83 games in 2006. Great, out of approximately 112 World Champions, you were able to come up with 1 World Champ who won 83 games. And I'll even hand you the 1987 Twins who went 85-77 and happened to somehow have a very needed home field advantage along the way. I don't personally like those odds of trying to catch lightning in a bottle. The Cards did have the advantage of winning the division at 83-78 which I don't think will be the case this year and they didn't have to worry about a one game playoff just to get to the NLDS. Right, because 83 win teams generally don't make the playoffs. But once you're in, your odds aren't much lower than the odds of any other playoff team (at least once you make it to the divisional round). Having a great regular season record is no guarantee of playoff success, and, as last years' playoffs illustrated, having a bad regular season record does not mean that you have no shot at winning the World Series. Remember, the difference in true talent level between a 100-win juggernaut and an 85-win team that just squeaked just aren't that significant. Even ignoring the likelihood that the 100-win team likely outperformed its true talent level to reach that threshold, it's the difference between a team that won 62 percent of its games and a team that won 52 percent of its games. In the small samples of the playoffs, the difference between the odds of the best team left winning the World Series and the odds of the worst team left winning the World Series are much smaller than you'd think.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 10, 2015 16:48:52 GMT -5
“@bryanhoch: Girardi: Andrew Miller going to DL with strained muscle in forearm. Dellin Betances will slide in as the regular closer.” and the people against signing relief pitchers for 4 years did clap, rejoice and pronounce, I told you so, as the raised their glasses and began carnal experience with the fair maidens of their town.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,833
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 10, 2015 17:03:35 GMT -5
To Pawtucket? He's being used in high leverage late-inning situations by Farrell. What makes you think they'd option him? He lost the game last night. That's reason enough for me.
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Post by p23w on Jun 10, 2015 17:05:55 GMT -5
“@bryanhoch: Girardi: Andrew Miller going to DL with strained muscle in forearm. Dellin Betances will slide in as the regular closer.” and the people against signing relief pitchers for 4 years did clap, rejoice and pronounce, I told you so, as the raised their glasses and began carnal experience with the fair maidens of their town. Blood relatives, no doubt.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jun 10, 2015 18:26:01 GMT -5
Holy Porcello
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Post by benjaminbuttons on Jun 10, 2015 18:30:35 GMT -5
Classic
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Jun 10, 2015 18:30:40 GMT -5
First of all, great contact by Bogaerts. Put a charge into that ball.
Second, absolutely must run harder out of the box. Stupid.
EDIT: Are we serious with this crap?!
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 10, 2015 18:33:54 GMT -5
If that inning doesn't sum up this team in a nutshell, nothing ever will.
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