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7/17-7/20 Red Sox @ Angels Series Thread
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Post by soxfan2015 on Jul 18, 2015 23:58:41 GMT -5
Note to Farrell: for the love of God, can you please move Pedroia out of the two hole! Back to the dl would be even better! this comment is ridiculous. He has been one of our best hitters (if not the best) the guy hasn't faced live pitching in 3 weeks. Relax, it's been 2 games.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2015 0:06:18 GMT -5
Everybody yelling sell...what exactly are the Sox selling? Brock Holt? What would you really get for him? Honestly, Holt would be pretty valuable to keep around next year and afterward. He doesn't cost much, and plays just about every position, something that is valuable because when a team has an injury, they normally have to resort to replacement level talent to replace their starting player, but with Holt you have a guy who's clearly not replacement, but rather is an asset.
So if not Holt, then who? You're not going to get a lot for Tazawa, Uehara, Napoli, and DeAza. So what's the point?
I'm not saying the Sox should go after anybody for this season. The season is shot. I'm kind of glad the Sox are drifting again. It makes it more likely the Sox don't do anything desperate.
Focus on who can make the Sox much better in 2016 and beyond. Meanwhile, just ride it out and be ready for the offseason to reshape the team for the better.
I hope that Allard Baird isn't the point man again for Cherington to make those decisions. I think he's in charge of the major league scouting, and if that's the case, the Sox have made some pretty poor decisions, and I can't help but wonder if that was based on some of his say so.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 19, 2015 8:21:27 GMT -5
Selling isn't the right word. It's more like getting rid of the dead weight.
Move Napoli, Victorino, and anyone else who definitely won't be back next year. This season is toast, so it's time to see what Johnson, JBJ, etc. can do with a real sample size.
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Post by jdb on Jul 19, 2015 8:32:50 GMT -5
I'm with AmFox plan to move enough to get under the luxury tax number. Fact is, like a prior poster said, we don't have a lot to sell. Holts probably worth more to us as a super utility player but maybe a team like KC sees him as their starting 2B for the next few years. Love Koji and he's having a good year but teams will be scared off by the 2016 commitment givien his age. We should move on to developing players like JBJ and Castillo for next year and giving them ABs.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 19, 2015 9:32:49 GMT -5
Everybody yelling sell...what exactly are the Sox selling? Brock Holt? What would you really get for him? Honestly, Holt would be pretty valuable to keep around next year and afterward. He doesn't cost much, and plays just about every position, something that is valuable because when a team has an injury, they normally have to resort to replacement level talent to replace their starting player, but with Holt you have a guy who's clearly not replacement, but rather is an asset. So if not Holt, then who? You're not going to get a lot for Tazawa, Uehara, Napoli, and DeAza. So what's the point? I'm not saying the Sox should go after anybody for this season. The season is shot. I'm kind of glad the Sox are drifting again. It makes it more likely the Sox don't do anything desperate. Focus on who can make the Sox much better in 2016 and beyond. Meanwhile, just ride it out and be ready for the offseason to reshape the team for the better. I hope that Allard Baird isn't the point man again for Cherington to make those decisions. I think he's in charge of the major league scouting, and if that's the case, the Sox have made some pretty poor decisions, and I can't help but wonder if that was based on some of his say so. I think you can get a ton for Uehara or Tazawa. Contenders are always looking for bullpen reinforcements and pay a premium on them, and both of these guys have proven they can do it in the playoffs in a mega market. Miller returned a top flight pitching prospect as a pure 10-15 inning rental. The Uehara deal doesn't look bad now (he'd get at least 1 year/9 mill on the open market provided his arm doesn't give way the rest of the year) so that really shouldn't be a problem- especially for a big market club. Aside from that I don't really think they should necessarily be pure sellers. They should look into getting guys like Tyson Ross, Andrew Cashner etc who can help beyond this year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2015 9:40:10 GMT -5
Everybody yelling sell...what exactly are the Sox selling? Brock Holt? What would you really get for him? Honestly, Holt would be pretty valuable to keep around next year and afterward. He doesn't cost much, and plays just about every position, something that is valuable because when a team has an injury, they normally have to resort to replacement level talent to replace their starting player, but with Holt you have a guy who's clearly not replacement, but rather is an asset. So if not Holt, then who? You're not going to get a lot for Tazawa, Uehara, Napoli, and DeAza. So what's the point? I'm not saying the Sox should go after anybody for this season. The season is shot. I'm kind of glad the Sox are drifting again. It makes it more likely the Sox don't do anything desperate. Focus on who can make the Sox much better in 2016 and beyond. Meanwhile, just ride it out and be ready for the offseason to reshape the team for the better. I hope that Allard Baird isn't the point man again for Cherington to make those decisions. I think he's in charge of the major league scouting, and if that's the case, the Sox have made some pretty poor decisions, and I can't help but wonder if that was based on some of his say so. I think you can get a ton for Uehara or Tazawa. Contenders are always looking for bullpen reinforcements and pay a premium on them, and both of these guys have proven they can do it in the playoffs in a mega market. Miller returned a top flight pitching prospect as a pure 10-15 inning rental. The Uehara deal doesn't look bad now (he'd get at least 1 year/9 mill on the open market provided his arm doesn't give way the rest of the year) so that really shouldn't be a problem- especially for a big market club. Aside from that I don't really think they should necessarily be pure sellers. They should look into getting guys like Tyson Ross, Andrew Cashner etc who can help beyond this year. This is where I disagree slightly. I'd be surprised if the Sox got a ton of value for Uehara and Tazawa. Uehara will be 42 next season and making $9 million. I don't think teams will want to give up too much talent to risk paying a 42 year old $9 million. Tazawa, at best I would think, might fetch a young Tazawa-to-be. He doesn't have the pure closer stuff that Miller has and is not lefthanded. And I agree with the above - the Sox shouldn't be selling as much as getting rid of the dead weight, as much as they can, so that they can make sure to be under the luxury tax threshold.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 19, 2015 12:25:47 GMT -5
I think you can get a ton for Uehara or Tazawa. Contenders are always looking for bullpen reinforcements and pay a premium on them, and both of these guys have proven they can do it in the playoffs in a mega market. Miller returned a top flight pitching prospect as a pure 10-15 inning rental. The Uehara deal doesn't look bad now (he'd get at least 1 year/9 mill on the open market provided his arm doesn't give way the rest of the year) so that really shouldn't be a problem- especially for a big market club. Aside from that I don't really think they should necessarily be pure sellers. They should look into getting guys like Tyson Ross, Andrew Cashner etc who can help beyond this year. This is where I disagree slightly. I'd be surprised if the Sox got a ton of value for Uehara and Tazawa. Uehara will be 42 next season and making $9 million. I don't think teams will want to give up too much talent to risk paying a 42 year old $9 million. Tazawa, at best I would think, might fetch a young Tazawa-to-be. He doesn't have the pure closer stuff that Miller has and is not lefthanded. And I agree with the above - the Sox shouldn't be selling as much as getting rid of the dead weight, as much as they can, so that they can make sure to be under the luxury tax threshold. Koji can win a Championship all by himself when he's on. I believe the 9 million would not even come into play..
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Jul 19, 2015 12:26:04 GMT -5
Taking my homer glasses off for a moment, it would be pretty interesting to see Holt traded just because I have no idea what he's worth.
If you trade him to a team that plans to start him (at 2B, for instance) then you're trading a solid, cost-controlled starting second baseman. That's fairly easy to quantify (and would bring a nice return I'd think, if we chose to go that route). But does his excellent versatility demand a premium from a buyer, even if said buyer doesn't really intend to leverage it? I don't know how to evaluate that in terms of player trade value. So Holt would make a very interesting case study if he were to be traded.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 19, 2015 12:37:26 GMT -5
“@jcrasnick: The #redsox have a high-ranking scout in Philadelphia for Cole Hamels' start today. Just sayin.'”
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2015 12:44:07 GMT -5
“@jcrasnick: The #redsox have a high-ranking scout in Philadelphia for Cole Hamels' start today. Just sayin.'” Say it ain't so. Package deal satisfies bolstering the bullpen and rotation. We give up Devers, Margot, Guerra and a couple of others.
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Post by Smittyw on Jul 19, 2015 12:55:57 GMT -5
"Say 'Cole Hamels' again, I dare you. Say 'Cole Hamels' one more ###### time."
(what I feel like after the last 12 months)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2015 12:59:05 GMT -5
This is where I disagree slightly. I'd be surprised if the Sox got a ton of value for Uehara and Tazawa. Uehara will be 42 next season and making $9 million. I don't think teams will want to give up too much talent to risk paying a 42 year old $9 million. Tazawa, at best I would think, might fetch a young Tazawa-to-be. He doesn't have the pure closer stuff that Miller has and is not lefthanded. And I agree with the above - the Sox shouldn't be selling as much as getting rid of the dead weight, as much as they can, so that they can make sure to be under the luxury tax threshold. Koji can win a Championship all by himself when he's on. I believe the 9 million would not even come into play.. He isn't his 2013 version of himself and never will be. The $9 million at age 42 certainly comes into play. He's declining - he is aging gracefully, but he is declining and is not the guy he was in 2013, and I doubt any team thinks he is.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jul 19, 2015 13:04:29 GMT -5
“@jcrasnick: The #redsox have a high-ranking scout in Philadelphia for Cole Hamels' start today. Just sayin.'” Say it ain't so. Package deal satisfies bolstering the bullpen and rotation. We give up Devers, Margot, Guerra and a couple of others. If Ben trades Devers, Margot, Guerra + for Hamels and Papelbon to try to save the season I will become a fan of another team, change my avatar, sun will start setting in the east, etc.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 19, 2015 13:05:31 GMT -5
There is no harm in shopping, koji, taz and holt. Holts value may never be higher
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2015 13:08:16 GMT -5
Say it ain't so. Package deal satisfies bolstering the bullpen and rotation. We give up Devers, Margot, Guerra and a couple of others. If Ben trades Devers, Margot, Guerra + for Hamels and Papelbon to try to save the season I will become a fan of another team, change my avatar, sun will start setting in the east, etc. Me too. If we were the Phillies with those main assets, what would you need from the Sox though? I hope nothing happens.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2015 13:11:04 GMT -5
There is no harm in shopping, koji, taz and holt. Holts value may never be higher Yes but Taz would have to be replaced somehow, Holt is where ML teams are going but not a star and Koji guzzles Geritol.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 19, 2015 13:14:14 GMT -5
They can always sign relievers in the off season.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 19, 2015 13:17:30 GMT -5
I'd trade Margot for Hamels. I wouldn't include Devers as well.
Mainly because trading for Hamels wouldn't be just about hoping to make a run this year, it would improve the team next year where it needs it most.
Now that we know Betts, Rodriguez and Swihart are clearly off the table, a deal for Hamels is much more palatable even it if isn't about helping this years team.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 19, 2015 13:18:57 GMT -5
There is no harm in shopping, koji, taz and holt. Holts value may never be higher Yes but Taz would have to be replaced somehow, Holt is where ML teams are going but not a star and Koji guzzles Geritol. I think that is the point a few of us are making on Holt, he isn't a star. But he is a very valuable asset who may never have more value to the Red Sox. Shop him around and figure out if you can get a haul for him. Who knows maybe some GM falls for the "All-Star" and gives up a can't miss package.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 19, 2015 13:41:05 GMT -5
Yes but Taz would have to be replaced somehow, Holt is where ML teams are going but not a star and Koji guzzles Geritol. I think that is the point a few of us are making on Holt, he isn't a star. But he is a very valuable asset who may never have more value to the Red Sox. Shop him around and figure out if you can get a haul for him. Who knows maybe some GM falls for the Scrappy White Guy and gives up a can't miss package. Hey, we (The Duke) fell for that one, once upon a time. Only cost us 450 Jamie Moyer starts. But to Danny Boy's credit, he got us two Scrappy White Guys in return: Jeff Frye and Darren Bragg. And he earned the undying affection of one Nicholas Cafardo, ardent admirer of all things scrappy.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 19, 2015 13:59:17 GMT -5
Hamels out after three innings
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 19, 2015 14:04:01 GMT -5
Hamels out after three innings I think the Phillies might have waited too long to trade him.
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Post by station13 on Jul 19, 2015 14:17:34 GMT -5
Why is this a night game?
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Post by station13 on Jul 19, 2015 14:23:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade Tazawa. He just turn 29, and is showing no sign of letting his workload affect him. Most relievers can't even pitch half a season without being DFA. Taz has pitch high quality relief since 2012.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 19, 2015 14:25:43 GMT -5
Why is this a night game? TV calls the shots. It's actually a break for the Sox. Many of these Sunday night games are followed by a long plane ride. Never mind I thought Monday was a early game, no break.
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