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8/17-8/19 Red Sox vs. Indians Series Thread
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Post by mredsox89 on Aug 17, 2015 21:42:33 GMT -5
So frustrating to see Hanley continue to struggle. If he was even somewhat competent, it wouldn't be a problem. But he's awful and doesn't appear to be getting better. He should probably be the 1B next season, then you wonder if the DH spot opens after that and Ortiz retires. That or he needs to get significantly better in the outfield. But with Castillo, Betts, and JBJ, and no real 1B option in sight (still not a firm believer in Shaw full time), Hanley makes the most sense
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 17, 2015 21:49:10 GMT -5
Unlike others on here I really don't think we're going to be competitive next year either. I think you try to move Hanley to first next year. We need a first baseman anyway and the options via trade or free agency aren't that appealing. If he is bad there too, move him to DH when ortiz retires. Ortiz won't be around forever and Hanley's bat is still pretty solid.
We're also stuck with Porcello and Sandoval. Thats a lot of money right there. We're going to have to build this team the right way, and with patience. We're not a quick fix or two from a world series team or even being very good again. Our entire bullpen is crap or injured other than Tazawa.
I get that its a big market and a lot of revenue comes from being competitive but they can get a lot of that money back by cutting payroll when necessary. We're not a David Price away from being in the playoffs. We don't have the money to fix all our issues.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 17, 2015 22:01:20 GMT -5
“@jtomase: Lovullo: “Hanley is a work in progress. That was a tough play tonight. We have to understand where he’s come from and where he’s at.””
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 22:17:10 GMT -5
Maybe instead of lifting weights and putting on 30 more pounds of muscle this winter which did him no good whatsoever, he should shag a few fly balls.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 22:17:47 GMT -5
Unlike others on here I really don't think we're going to be competitive next year either. I think you try to move Hanley to first next year. We need a first baseman anyway and the options via trade or free agency aren't that appealing. If he is bad there too, move him to DH when ortiz retires. Ortiz won't be around forever and Hanley's bat is still pretty solid. We're also stuck with Porcello and Sandoval. Thats a lot of money right there. We're going to have to build this team the right way, and with patience. We're not a quick fix or two from a world series team or even being very good again. Our entire bullpen is crap or injured other than Tazawa. I get that its a big market and a lot of revenue comes from being competitive but they can get a lot of that money back by cutting payroll when necessary. We're not a David Price away from being in the playoffs. We don't have the money to fix all our issues. I'd go with Shaw over Hanley at 1B.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 17, 2015 22:18:55 GMT -5
“@jtomase: Lovullo: “Hanley is a work in progress. That was a tough play tonight. We have to understand where he’s come from and where he’s at.”” In no world is that a tough play for a LF... It was the atrocious read that made it a tough play. If the Red Sox want to compete next year, they need to tell Hanley he's going to be the 4th OF if he doesn't learn how to play the outfield, because at this point, even if he gets back up to the 130 wRC+ range where he's been in the past (which is solidly above his projections), his realistic ceiling is roughly an average player as long as his defense remains this bad. He's nice to have around to spell Ortiz against some lefties and to fill in at LF when somebody needs a day off (nice to have 3 guys who can play center), but at this point, that's all he is.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 6:32:24 GMT -5
it's clear as day that he hasn't given any effort to trying to better himself out there. Is it? Obviously the results have been terrible, but you need more than that to place the blame entirely on Hanley's work ethic (or lack thereof). Sometimes guys just don't pick up skills as quickly as you think they should.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 6:40:28 GMT -5
it's clear as day that he hasn't given any effort to trying to better himself out there. Is it? Obviously the results have been terrible, but you need more than that to place the blame entirely on Hanley's work ethic (or lack thereof). Sometimes guys just don't pick up skills as quickly as you think they should. There was plenty of talk in spring training about how he wasn't working that hard on defense because they didn't want him to get hurt and that they were taking it slowly. Didn't think much at the time, but it has been very, very slowly. It just wasn't anyone's priority. Blame who you want for that, but at this point someone deserves some blame. There certainly aren't any articles about him shagging flies during batting practice like JBJ does or Xander working on his defense over the winter. I mean he almost looked like Will Farrell out there to start the season.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 7:03:21 GMT -5
Is it? Obviously the results have been terrible, but you need more than that to place the blame entirely on Hanley's work ethic (or lack thereof). Sometimes guys just don't pick up skills as quickly as you think they should. There was plenty of talk in spring training about how he wasn't working that hard on defense because they didn't want him to get hurt and that they were taking it slowly. Didn't think much at the time, but it has been very, very slowly. It just wasn't anyone's priority. Blame who you want for that, but at this point someone deserves some blame. There certainly aren't any articles about him shagging flies during batting practice like JBJ does or Xander working on his defense over the winter. I mean he almost looked like Will Farrell out there to start the season. Was there? I actually remember the opposite chatter-- that he had been taking fly balls in the Dominican before Spring Training started, his extra work with Arnie Beyeler, his energy and enthusiasm about switching positions, etc.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 7:13:46 GMT -5
There was plenty of talk in spring training about how he wasn't working that hard on defense because they didn't want him to get hurt and that they were taking it slowly. Didn't think much at the time, but it has been very, very slowly. It just wasn't anyone's priority. Blame who you want for that, but at this point someone deserves some blame. There certainly aren't any articles about him shagging flies during batting practice like JBJ does or Xander working on his defense over the winter. I mean he almost looked like Will Farrell out there to start the season. Was there? I actually remember the opposite chatter-- that he had been taking fly balls in the Dominican before Spring Training started, his extra work with Arnie Beyeler, his energy and enthusiasm about switching positions, etc. Yeah I'm not going to attack his character. He is injury prone, but he's tried to play through injury this year (didn't really work at all but he had good intentions), hasnt been a distraction off the field, and was willing to play a different position to play with the team he loves. It's not fair to say he isn't trying when we're not monitoring how often he practices. That being said, it's going to be very hard to find a position for him next year, especially if Shaw keeps this up. But he can't stay in the OF. Hes worse than Manny ever was and significantly hurts the pitching staff.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 7:22:15 GMT -5
There was plenty of talk in spring training about how he wasn't working that hard on defense because they didn't want him to get hurt and that they were taking it slowly. Didn't think much at the time, but it has been very, very slowly. It just wasn't anyone's priority. Blame who you want for that, but at this point someone deserves some blame. There certainly aren't any articles about him shagging flies during batting practice like JBJ does or Xander working on his defense over the winter. I mean he almost looked like Will Farrell out there to start the season. Was there? I actually remember the opposite chatter-- that he had been taking fly balls in the Dominican before Spring Training started, his extra work with Arnie Beyeler, his energy and enthusiasm about switching positions, etc. I don't remember where I read it, but it was there. This quote is kinda funny from the 2nd link. Actually, the article I was thinking of was linked in that 2nd article. www.providencejournal.com/article/20150302/SPORTS/150309861/13819/TOPIC?template=printartThis is the quote I remember that gave me pause: Why not? He doesn't have to throw them in. I mean if the reason he can't practice hard is because he's going to get hurt, what's the point? Hindsight is looking pretty bad here.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 7:38:46 GMT -5
Hindsight always looks bad. I see the logic of easing him into it. Unlike Betts or Bradley, he's a 31-year-old guy with a history of hamstring and core injuries, and it's the first week of Spring Training. Plus, it's hard to say how much better he'd be had he gotten those extra reps. He's improved throughout the season, but it's a gradual improvement at best, and he still has trouble reading pitches off the bat, taking good routes, and not being too afraid of the wall.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Aug 18, 2015 7:40:08 GMT -5
Wonder if the Dodgers would be willing to do De Aza and Hanley for Ethier and "x"?
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 7:55:37 GMT -5
Wonder if the Dodgers would be willing to do De Aza and Hanley for Ethier and "x"? They didn't even try to sign him last winter so I bet you have your answer. He's owed $66 million for 3 more years and at this rate, no one will ever let that option year vest. I bet the Red Sox have to include $40 million to dump him if they wanted to.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Aug 18, 2015 8:16:16 GMT -5
I thought he would at the very least be average or slightly-below average defensively at LF, but he's horrible and is constantly costing us outs. I would pull the plug on that experiment RIGHT NOW and let Betts/JBJ/Castillo play the rest of the way. What are our options? Trade him or try him out somewhere else. Problem with 1B right now is that Shaw has been playing well and the Sox should continue to get him regular AB's to see what they have, he's earned it. We obviously have fatty at 3B, so where does Hanley fit in?
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 18, 2015 9:30:38 GMT -5
Wonder if the Dodgers would be willing to do De Aza and Hanley for Ethier and "x"? They didn't even try to sign him last winter so I bet you have your answer. He's owed $66 million for 3 more years and at this rate, no one will ever let that option year vest. I bet the Red Sox have to include $40 million to dump him if they wanted to. You literally couldn't make worse moves last off-season if you wanted to. A saboteur couldn't have done the destruction of signing; Hanley, Sandoval, Porcello trade and extension and Masterson. It's literally impossible to make that many horrendous decisions. I give BC all the credit in the world for 2013. Some brilliant moves; Victorino, Napoli and Koji. Smaller ones like Gomes and Drew. That teams wasn't lucky. They were the best team in baseball. Amazing it's fallen apart so quickly. ? about UZR calculations. On the ball over Hanley's head. If he catches it, we get out of the inning 2-1. Is it considered like an error? Does he get a -3
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 9:41:16 GMT -5
Re: UZR calculations, my understanding is that a misplay like that has a negative run value equal to [percentage of the time that an average LF makes that play] multiplied by [the average run expectancy difference between an out and a double]. In other words, it's context-neutral and does not account for the base-out state or the fact that the misplay actually resulted in three runs scoring.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 10:14:36 GMT -5
Re: UZR calculations, my understanding is that a misplay like that has a negative run value equal to [percentage of the time that an average LF makes that play] multiplied by [the average run expectancy difference between an out and a double]. In other words, it's context-neutral and does not account for the base-out state or the fact that the misplay actually resulted in three runs scoring. Yeah this correct.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 18, 2015 11:03:12 GMT -5
Re: UZR calculations, my understanding is that a misplay like that has a negative run value equal to [percentage of the time that an average LF makes that play] multiplied by [the average run expectancy difference between an out and a double]. In other words, it's context-neutral and does not account for the base-out state or the fact that the misplay actually resulted in three runs scoring. Thanks. He's probably worse than a -17 then. Good grief
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 18, 2015 14:29:34 GMT -5
“@timbritton: Red Sox v. Bauer: Betts CF, Holt 2B, Bogaerts SS, Ortiz DH, Ramirez LF, Sandoval 3B, Shaw 1B, Castillo RF, Swihart C, Rodriguez LHP”
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 14:33:50 GMT -5
JBJ should be playing every day.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 14:35:59 GMT -5
Bogaerts DRS is now -2 and UZR/150 -0.1.
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 18, 2015 14:52:42 GMT -5
JBJ should be playing every day. As should Rusney.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 18, 2015 15:39:24 GMT -5
Unlike others on here I really don't think we're going to be competitive next year either. I think you try to move Hanley to first next year. We need a first baseman anyway and the options via trade or free agency aren't that appealing. If he is bad there too, move him to DH when ortiz retires. Ortiz won't be around forever and Hanley's bat is still pretty solid. We're also stuck with Porcello and Sandoval. Thats a lot of money right there. We're going to have to build this team the right way, and with patience. We're not a quick fix or two from a world series team or even being very good again. Our entire bullpen is crap or injured other than Tazawa. I get that its a big market and a lot of revenue comes from being competitive but they can get a lot of that money back by cutting payroll when necessary. We're not a David Price away from being in the playoffs. We don't have the money to fix all our issues. I'd go with Shaw over Hanley at 1B. I meant for next year. Switching Hanley to first now is too far even for me. Where else do you put Hanley next year? He is owed 60 milion plus over the next three years. He is still a good hitter. Might as well try him at first next year. If he is bad still defensively, then he can be our new DH when Ortiz retires.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 18, 2015 15:48:17 GMT -5
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