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Post by jmei on Nov 10, 2015 10:22:40 GMT -5
Guys 5 through 12, as well as the quality of coaching, matter a lot in the regular season. I agree that they're not a lock for the playoffs, but I think they're clearly in that MIL (another team that overperformed last year and are not a playoff lock to me)/DET/MIA/IND tier.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 10, 2015 10:31:51 GMT -5
Agree that's where Boston belongs. Additions (trade) and subtractions (health) to those rosters will dictate the outcome (not a shocking statement, of course).
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 10, 2015 10:45:19 GMT -5
Yea, I am not trying to say they suck or won't have a shot at the playoffs, but they are more in a 7-12 range than they are in a spot where they could get a 5 seed and close to 50 wins like some have suggested (not necessarily here just in general).
Also, trying to point out how the other teams got a lot better.
Why do you think the Bucks over achieved? Even if so they get another year of development from their Greek Freak, Parker is back and they added Monroe. They've started slow because of injuries but they aren't major and guys are coming back. Their bench is actually quite good with Henson, Mayo and Ennis leading the way.
Regardless, it's a fun year for Celtics fans as there's a lot of teams to follow and root for (Minnesota/Boston) or against (Nets and Mavericks) and a dream draft scenario has a legitimate shot at materializing.
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Post by jmei on Nov 10, 2015 11:43:32 GMT -5
I'm bearish on Milwaukee. I think the Knight for Carter-Williams was a big loss for them (I think Carter-Williams is just a mediocre player-- good on defense, but can't shoot or create for others), and pretty much all their lineups desperately lack shooting and play-making. Meanwhile, adding Monroe hurts their defense, which was their strength last year. They were a nice surprise last year, but they still finished .500, and I could well see them missing the playoffs this year. Player development isn't linear, and they're counting on a lot of young players to continue to develop.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 10, 2015 12:09:19 GMT -5
I like Milwaukee's pieces but they do fit "strangely". Monroe would be fine if they could line him up next to a better rim protector. They have one, when healthy, in John Henson (whom they just signed to an extension but has barely seen the court so far). Unfortunately, he plays PF which is where they have their, at least, 2nd best player (again, when healthy) in Jabari Parker. They could move Parker to the 3, I suppose but that pushed G.A. to the #2 but that relegates Middleton to coming off the bench.
While we are and will see increased contracts for key bench players, $14M is a lot for a 6th man. And you are STILL left with MCW at the point. A shooter/defender would work better (as Jon points out MCW is only half-way there) since much of the offense could go through Giannis.
Again, nice pieces but awkward fit, imo.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 11, 2015 0:56:12 GMT -5
Milwaukee isn't good, but losing Knight was a plus for them.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2015 8:14:57 GMT -5
Funny, I turned the game on last night and it was 54-52 I think and the Celtics went on a 16-0 run....
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 11, 2015 21:39:40 GMT -5
Not sure I understand why Rozier plays right now.
Amir Johnson, too. His rim protection is good, but he's dreadful on offense.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 11, 2015 21:51:24 GMT -5
Stevens doesn't seem to have a rhyme or reason for what he's doing so far. Very bizarre coaching in the early going.
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Post by jmei on Nov 11, 2015 22:31:35 GMT -5
Amir Johnson, too. His rim protection is good, but he's dreadful on offense. Gross exaggeration. He's a good roll man (and screener generally) and is an OK shooter. |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 12, 2015 7:25:55 GMT -5
Also think he's already a bit banged up.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 12, 2015 9:31:21 GMT -5
It's early yet so we will see how things settle. The worst case scenario for this team is just missing the playoffs and having guys like Lee, Johnson and Turner taking minutes from the likes of Sully, KO, Hunter, Young and Rozier.
Hunter should be given consistent minutes right now no matter what he does, within reason, or the situation. He has shown enough that he should be developed first and foremost.
I would really like Young to be given a real chance but he's best off in Maine for a while right now.
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Post by jmei on Nov 16, 2015 11:15:38 GMT -5
Tiny sample, but the Celtics have the third best point differential in the East.
Also, how bad are the 76ers? 0-10, average loss by 13.5 points, have not lost a game by less than 6 points (weirdly enough, their two closest games have been against the Cavs).
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2015 11:46:18 GMT -5
Sixers are bad but franchise wise they seem to finally have some players and they will probably have 2 top 7 picks this year. Okafor and Noel seem like a nice 4/5 combination.
From a rebuild would you rather be the Sixers or the Celtics?
Celtics are doing it more respectably from a competition standpoint but take that out of the equation and who's closer to being a championship team down the road? Not a solid playoff team but a legit championship team? Or maybe not who's closer but who has the easier path?
Stevens and Ainge may make me choose the Celtics but not sure if that's the homer in me...
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Post by jmei on Nov 16, 2015 11:59:15 GMT -5
Without the Nets picks, you could make an argument for the Sixers. With those picks and with a strong front office and coaching staff in place, I think it's borderline impossible to pick the Sixers. Remember, it's unclear whether Okafor (lack of defense) or Noel (shooting an unfathomably bad 39.6% this year) have All-NBA upside, and Embiid's health issues are serious enough where he's a major question mark.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2015 12:05:45 GMT -5
I think it's clear they have the upside just not if they will reach it. Okafor's play making (passing) was in question too and reports are possitive there. He doesn't need to be a stud defender and has the tools to be solid enough. I'd take Okafor over everyone on the Celtics without hesitation. But yea id rather be s Celtics fan right now
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Post by texs31 on Nov 16, 2015 12:10:30 GMT -5
Way early for this but . . .
Bad weekend for the C's in terms of draft picks. While Brooklyn remained tied for 2nd worst record in the NBA, Minnesota "took back" their pick with their losses and Boston and Dallas pushed back into the mid-back end of the 1st round.
Boo.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 16, 2015 12:28:19 GMT -5
Way early for this but . . . Bad weekend for the C's in terms of draft picks. While Brooklyn remained tied for 2nd worst record in the NBA, Minnesota "took back" their pick with their losses and Boston and Dallas pushed back into the mid-back end of the 1st round. Boo. The Minnesota pick has always been a long shot and even after their 4 game losing streak, they still have the 11th best record in the west and are only 1 game out of the 7 seed (and amazing enough only 2 games out of the three seed). That's way better position than we should have ever hoped for at this point. Rubio being out has really hurt them. I think its about 70%/30% that they are a bottom 12 team, but 30% is way more than I expected. The Brooklyn pick is still where the money is and the Lakers and Kings both won yesterday. There are now only four teams with fewer than four wins (Philly (0), Brooklyn (1), New Orleans (1), LAL (2)). The three game cushion over the 5th worst team is great. As for the Celts vs. Philly: I think the edge goes to the Celtics and it isn't particularly close. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 16, 2015 15:21:21 GMT -5
Sixers are bad but franchise wise they seem to finally have some players and they will probably have 2 top 7 picks this year. Okafor and Noel seem like a nice 4/5 combination. From a rebuild would you rather be the Sixers or the Celtics? Celtics are doing it more respectably from a competition standpoint but take that out of the equation and who's closer to being a championship team down the road? Not a solid playoff team but a legit championship team? Or maybe not who's closer but who has the easier path? Stevens and Ainge may make me choose the Celtics but not sure if that's the homer in me... It's not the homer in you. The Sixers really aren't in great shape going forward, even if they land another top pick this year. Okafor looks like the real deal, but Noel is a fringe starter and it's unknown if Embid will ever have an impact in the NBA. Plus, they have very little young talent and pieces to trade off. At some point, that talent acquisition needs to turn into a reality, and the Sixers look no more competent now than before the rebuild. By the time their young guys start coming into their own (IF they ever do), they'll be free agents, and some will probably leave town. |
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Post by texs31 on Nov 16, 2015 15:50:46 GMT -5
Right now, has to be Boston. It could change if a couple of things do/don't happen:
1. At some point, Boston has to turn these assets into some stars. Whether by trade or draft, those Nets picks are key (as stated above). Really wish Smart was developing faster.
2. IF Philly ends up with 2 of the top 5, that could be quite the accumulation of talent. Simmons and Murray, for example, would be an interesting add to that roster of young talent.
3. I, too, am not worried about Noel. I think he'll have a long career in the NBA but mostly as a defensive specialist. The fear is whether Philly can turn him into an asset that fits in better.
4. Of course, Embiid somehow providing what he was projected to would change a LOT in this discussion. Combining what he could do on D (not as good as Noel but was still supposed to be a good defender coming out) with better spacing on the floor would be great.
5. Dario Saric - not sure what he'll be
Too many ifs to go with Philly but that could change over the course of the next 2 years (especially if Philly can retain/convert the assets that may become Free Agents around that time).
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2015 17:23:14 GMT -5
I think the real argument for the Celtics is Ainge and Stevens. We can knock the Sixers players but can do the same with the Celtics.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 16, 2015 19:38:21 GMT -5
You never know what is going to happen, but I could see Boston being a really attractive place for a free agent to sign. If they finish as a 4-5 seed, combined with the picks, plus the depth and young talent. Add in the front office and coaching stability and there is a lot to like.
I can't see free agents having a very strong desire to sign in Philly. They are just too okay with losing and far too willing to treat players as assets. If I were a free agent I wouldn't go near that situation.
And I'm skeptical they can turn all those picks into a winning team before they start leaving via free agency and have to start over again.
Philly's situation is just generally overrated.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 16, 2015 20:46:22 GMT -5
The problem with next years free agent class is it's very shallow.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 17, 2015 8:42:32 GMT -5
They're in position to have cap space for a couple years at least.
I'll take the team that's gonna make the playoffs AND have a top 5 pick.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 17, 2015 9:40:57 GMT -5
Results don't lie but how does the Isaiah/Marcus combo look (I've only seen the box scores)?
I've been too busy to watch the games but I certainly love the outcomes. Maybe I'm too obsessed with the idea that the only guy I see capable of being a star is someone who folks seem to think is better suited as a 6th man.
I gotta start watching some games.
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