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2016 Boston Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 9:12:06 GMT -5
At 31, I bet someone we thought would be taken in the 1st round will be available and if we end up packaging some players (or take draft and stashes in the 1st) we could get a rotational guy at that spot.
As for concerns about drafting Dunn given all the guards we have, technically there is an immediate spot available for him. Without any other changes, he could go right into Turner's spot as the primary ball handler on the 2nd Unit. Sure, you'd prefer other moves be made (and some of the other players, like Rozier, get playing time to develop) but they don't HAVE to be made to create what you had last year and the current roster shouldn't prevent Boston from taking Dunn IF they believe he's the best player.
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Post by tjb21 on Jun 23, 2016 9:35:41 GMT -5
I think Smart needs those minutes. Rozier could slide into it as well, they have a lot of guard options.
Onuaku is the guy I want drafted sometime, I'm a lot higher on him than most. I consider him a top 12 prospect in this draft and I'm willing to be wrong on him. Luwawu/Baldwin/Davis would be great gets with their 2nd pick if they can move up a little. Bembry/Hernangomez/McCaw/Levert are guys who I'm interested in at the end of the 1st, early 2nd.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 9:50:22 GMT -5
I think Hernangomez is a guy that will continue to rise up draft boards. I've seen him as high as 15 to Denver.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2016 9:53:58 GMT -5
At 31, I bet someone we thought would be taken in the 1st round will be available and if we end up packaging some players (or take draft and stashes in the 1st) we could get a rotational guy at that spot. As for concerns about drafting Dunn given all the guards we have, technically there is an immediate spot available for him. Without any other changes, he could go right into Turner's spot as the primary ball handler on the 2nd Unit. Sure, you'd prefer other moves be made (and some of the other players, like Rozier, get playing time to develop) but they don't HAVE to be made to create what you had last year and the current roster shouldn't prevent Boston from taking Dunn IF they believe he's the best player. Turner played mostly SF on second unit, so I don't think Dunn can just take his minutes.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 9:55:09 GMT -5
I'd love to grab Malik Beasley at 23 if he's still there. I'm still not on board with the Dunn pick, but honestly I think Danny is just maximizing the trade value of that pick. There isn't a highly ranked guy not named Ingram or Simmons that I haven't heard that the Celtics are in on at some point, and there are definitely teams that really covet Dunn at least from what I'm hearing. Some team will (hopefully) talk themselves into falling in love with one of Dunn, Murray, Chriss or Bender and decide they need to move up, and even if we move down to the 4-7 range, a couple of those guys will still be there, plus we pick up other assets. Honestly though, I think that first pick has to be used on upside and preferably size/shot-blocking unless we move down for Hield, because I think he's an immediate difference maker based on his shooting and ability to create for himself at least. Adding more players to the backcourt mix isn't ideal to me because I think it would be great if we could get hunter and rozier a few minutes and smart needs more time on the ball if he's ever going to really develop offensively
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 9:58:45 GMT -5
Turner played mostly SF on second unit, so I don't think Dunn can just take his minutes. Yea but he was functionally the point guard given that he was the primary ball handler for the most part. Smart is also pretty capable of guarding 3s so I'm not sure you couldn't just plug Dunn into Turner's spot assuming either you find a wing who can shoot or maybe some development from Young if you're an optimist? On the other hand, when I think about it, I'd still rather address a more pressing need and give those minutes to Smart personally
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 10:00:21 GMT -5
No, he'd play the opposing PG on D (which is what really matters in terms of positions) and Smart guards the best of the wings (he can go up against SFs).
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 10:07:28 GMT -5
Right. Dunn is primary ball handler. Smart could guard the stronger of the wings (I wouldn't worry about who is the small forward and who is the shooting guard - whoever needs to be guarded by the stronger defender, that's who you put Smart on).
And, yes, they need a shooter but they've always needed a shooter
The point is, Danny needs to:
a) Take the best player. If that's Dunn, so be it. b) NOT make trades JUST to alleviate this supposed roster crunch (especially if it means taking less value for the assets). There are lineups that could work if that's what needs to be done.
Of course, we'd like to use the assets we have to fill needs that we don't but not at the risk of underutilizing the asset.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 10:16:47 GMT -5
Right. Dunn is primary ball handler. Smart could guard the stronger of the wings (I wouldn't worry about who is the small forward and who is the shooting guard - whoever needs to be guarded by the stronger defender, that's who you put Smart on). And, yes, they need a shooter but they've always needed a shooter The point is, Danny needs to: a) Take the best player. If that's Dunn, so be it. b) NOT make trades JUST to alleviate this supposed roster crunch (especially if it means taking less value for the assets). There are lineups that could work if that's what needs to be done. Of course, we'd like to use the assets we have to fill needs that we don't but not at the risk of underutilizing the asset. Yea but there clearly isn't a defined best player. Maybe Dunn would be the best player this year (maybe) but I wouldn't bet on him being the best player 2-3 years from now. It's not even about a roster crunch. He effectively duplicates Smart's skill set, likely without having the same upside if you compare their college performances and remember that they're pretty much the same age. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you dump valuable pieces for nothing, but you also do have to consider fit because we're not a typical lottery team. We need someone ideally who actually brings something we don't currently have to the table, and another non-shooter pg is definitely not that. I'm going for upside and fit, which is why I'd take Chriss. The guy has only been playing basketball for 4 years, he's an athletic freak and he's shown impressive skills for someone that raw. There is also no one on our roster who has anything like his set of skills, except maybe Jordan Mickey, who doesn't have the same size or perimeter skills, and probably isn't as good of an athlete either.
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Post by beantown on Jun 23, 2016 10:18:25 GMT -5
How about we trade this year's BKN first round pick back to BKN for '19 and '20 unprotected picks?? I jest, I jest...
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Post by tjb21 on Jun 23, 2016 10:19:24 GMT -5
I think this team has reached it's potential with IT as a starter. The issue I see with having better players surrounding him is: he needs high usage to be maximized. If he's the 3rd or 4th option, he is marginalized and his defensive limitations start to take over.
I'm not sure what he would fetch in a trade but I think he's the guy to move if they are going to trade a 'core' piece. He is clearly essential to the roster as constructed, but the roster as constructed isn't going anywhere.
The more I think about it, the more Boston should probably sit out the FA market (again) and wait until the trade deadline to better assess everything. I don't think this is the summer of fireworks either and I'm ok with it.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 10:21:44 GMT -5
I wasn't addressing who I think they should take. I was addressing the comment that IF they take Dunn they HAVE to trade him or another player.
While ideal, I don't believe it's necessary.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 10:36:26 GMT -5
I think this team has reached it's potential with IT as a starter. The issue I see with having better players surrounding him is: he needs high usage to be maximized. If he's the 3rd or 4th option, he is marginalized and his defensive limitations start to take over. I'm not sure what he would fetch in a trade but I think he's the guy to move if they are going to trade a 'core' piece. He is clearly essential to the roster as constructed, but the roster as constructed isn't going anywhere. The more I think about it, the more Boston should probably sit out the FA market (again) and wait until the trade deadline to better assess everything. I don't think this is the summer of fireworks either and I'm ok with it. I'm not sure I agree- I think it really depends on what kind of players you pair him with. A really good big would probably be quite functional- he put up 20 a game playing with Cousins, who actually needs the ball a good amount to be effective, in Sacramento. I also think that if you stagger minutes and have another guy around that is capable of running the offense at a relatively high level, you could play him as the top scoring option with bench-heavy lineups. Still, he is signed for another two seasons at a total of $13ish mil so his trade value should theoretically be high, but it doesn't seem like the front office has even considered trading him- everything seems to indicate they seem him as a building block and not just an asset
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 12:55:11 GMT -5
Thaddeus Young to Indiana for #20 and a future 2nd rounder (per Wojo)
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 13:03:31 GMT -5
Thaddeus Young to Indiana for #20 and a future 2nd rounder (per Wojo) Less than I thought he'd fetch, seems a little light on the return
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Post by tjb21 on Jun 23, 2016 13:09:05 GMT -5
Good trade for Indy IMO.
Not sure what they're doing but they'll be more fun (and score) at least.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 13:13:36 GMT -5
Bird said somewhere that he wanted to scrap the slow pace, grind it out style and play up tempo, which in my mind makes the Teague deal a solid gamble and Young should fit well on a team like that
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jun 23, 2016 13:28:26 GMT -5
Would #23 and #35 have gotten us Young? I think I would've liked him in Green. But either way, Brooklyn is getting even worse, and those future picks are looking even better.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 13:56:35 GMT -5
Just saw this on Hoopshype, if it's true I kinda love it: One of the trade scenarios, a source said, is packaging Khris Middleton with veteran center Greg Monroe, whom the Bucks have been seriously shopping. It is known the Celtics have had interest in Monroe for a long time. In return for Middleton and Monroe, the Bucks could possibly acquire two first-round picks from the Celtics in today’s draft: Nos. 16 and 23, along with another player. 9 mins ago – via Woelfel's Press Box
Never heard of Woelfel's press box though
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2016 14:01:10 GMT -5
No, he'd play the opposing PG on D (which is what really matters in terms of positions) and Smart guards the best of the wings (he can go up against SFs). While Smart could guard SF, I think it would be asking a lot of him to guard them all the time. Also how does Dunn take Turner's spot/minutes when Smart isn't playing? Bradley, Thomas and Dunn can't guard SF. If you take Dunn, when we have Smart, Bradley and Thomas you won't have enough minutes for all 4 to get playing time. You will have to make a trade, maybe not right now, but you will have to make a trade at some point.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 23, 2016 14:06:01 GMT -5
No, he'd play the opposing PG on D (which is what really matters in terms of positions) and Smart guards the best of the wings (he can go up against SFs). While Smart could guard SF, I think it would be asking a lot of him to guard them all the time. Also how does Dunn take Turner's spot/minutes when Smart isn't playing? Bradley, Thomas and Dunn can't guard SF. If you take Dunn, when we have Smart, Bradley and Thomas you won't have enough minutes for all 4 to get playing time. You will have to make a trade, maybe not right now, but you will have to make a trade at some point. In all likelihood, they're going to make some kind of trade anyway. I'd say Bradley is the most likely to go given his contract and the fact that he's an excellent perimeter defender who's not an offensive liability, and personally I'd love to open up a starting spot for Smart. Couldn't do that without either notable offensive improvement from Smart or adding shooting this offseason though
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2016 14:06:42 GMT -5
Just saw this on Hoopshype, if it's true I kinda love it: One of the trade scenarios, a source said, is packaging Khris Middleton with veteran center Greg Monroe, whom the Bucks have been seriously shopping. It is known the Celtics have had interest in Monroe for a long time. In return for Middleton and Monroe, the Bucks could possibly acquire two first-round picks from the Celtics in today’s draft: Nos. 16 and 23, along with another player. 9 mins ago – via Woelfel's Press Box Never heard of Woelfel's press box though We keep #3 pick? That would be awesome, not sure why Bucks would do that though.
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Post by thebogeyman on Jun 23, 2016 14:09:53 GMT -5
But either way, Brooklyn is getting even worse, and those future picks are looking even better. Yes and no. The immediate impact is the Nets are worse, but the move clears cap space (I think I saw that they have 55 mil now), so they can spend this summer and get better. Time will tell.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 23, 2016 14:18:09 GMT -5
But either way, Brooklyn is getting even worse, and those future picks are looking even better. Yes and no. The immediate impact is the Nets are worse, but the move clears cap space (I think I saw that they have 55 mil now), so they can spend this summer and get better. Time will tell. Ok but who would want to sign there under the present conditions?
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2016 14:21:15 GMT -5
Woeffel is a writer for the Racine Journal Times.
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