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Post by chavopepe2 on Jul 16, 2016 7:18:28 GMT -5
It's just not the same. It's like a buyer looking at a unfinished home and being told what's going to be done. It's not the same as looking at finished house. For example if you got let's same Griffin, he can help you recruit Durrant. I guess we'll never know, but I don't think that made a difference in Durant signing here. I think part of the appeal of the Celtics was the flexibility to add whatever players became available. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 16, 2016 8:04:38 GMT -5
It's just not the same. It's like a buyer looking at a unfinished home and being told what's going to be done. It's not the same as looking at finished house. For example if you got let's same Griffin, he can help you recruit Durrant. I agree the flexibility was part of the allure and the house analogy doesn't fit because most people don't have the money to fix the house whereas the Celtics do in the form of easily tradable assets. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 16, 2016 8:13:04 GMT -5
I guess where I seem to differ from some is I care more about which players to add versus it seems like some are just like well he's better to let's add him without any real thought of fit. I never felt like Butler was a great fit for the team. Durant was because besides the fact he's Kevin Durant he adds spacing.
Horford was a perfect add for several reasons.
1. Obviously breaking the can't add s star via free agency stigma
2. He's versatile which is key being one of the first big pieces because he doesn't lock you into one path or another. You can still add a Center or power forward - he can space the floor or be more of an in the paint player it doesn't matter.
3. He's very good defensively and will fit into the system perfectly and add an element you don't have.
4. He's can play inside or outside - spaces the floor from that spot and can keep the ball moving.
The only thing he really doesn't bring is great rebounding but he's not a liability there either.
What a great add.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 16, 2016 9:26:43 GMT -5
Thought I read where Durant issue here was that they'd have to trade some of the guys he wanted to play with in order to get another star. GS had the stars and either had or could get role players.
Can't remember where I saw that but . . .
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2016 11:18:47 GMT -5
It's just not the same. It's like a buyer looking at a unfinished home and being told what's going to be done. It's not the same as looking at finished house. For example if you got let's same Griffin, he can help you recruit Durrant. I agree the flexibility was part of the allure and the house analogy doesn't fit because most people don't have the money to fix the house whereas the Celtics do in the form of easily tradable assets. But my analogy is about the Celtics who you just said can finish the house, so how does it not fit? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 16, 2016 12:22:07 GMT -5
I agree the flexibility was part of the allure and the house analogy doesn't fit because most people don't have the money to fix the house whereas the Celtics do in the form of easily tradable assets. But my analogy is about the Celtics who you just said can finish the house, so how does it not fit? Because the major reason people are not excited about all the things they could do to a house like you are inferring is because they don't have the cash or the means to do it. People who do actually love those houses more because they can customize it and are usually getting a better deal because it needs upgrading that the vast majority of people in that price range cannot afford right away. Sorry I get what u mean but it just doesn't fit your point is all. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2016 13:41:42 GMT -5
But my analogy is about the Celtics who you just said can finish the house, so how does it not fit? Because the major reason people are not excited about all the things they could do to a house like you are inferring is because they don't have the cash or the means to do it. People who do actually love those houses more because they can customize it and are usually getting a better deal because it needs upgrading that the vast majority of people in that price range cannot afford right away. Sorry I get what u mean but it just doesn't fit your point is all. What are you talking about? My example was about Durrant and his meeting with Celtics. My analogy fits that's perfectly. All reports have stated the Celtics pitch was don't just look at team as currently constructed but what we can become. Talking about it in general terms has nothing to do with Durrant and Celtics, they aren't an average team. You said it yourself they have assets to greatly improve in many different ways going forward. |
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Post by philarhody on Jul 16, 2016 13:45:57 GMT -5
I think the most realistic, mutually beneficial trade would be for Kevin Love. I think Jae Crowder would be a great addition for Cleveland in that he would give Lebron a break on defense and provide similar spacing to Love. Amir Johnson could also be decent Tristan Thompson insurance to make the money work. I'm sure Cleveland is saying no on Love right now, but his skills really don't fit the Cav's personnel. I'd say Love, James Jones, for Crowder, Amir Johnson and the 2018 Boston 1st seems fair.
Edit: doubt that Cleveland has the stones for this, but they'd be a much better team with Crowder and better prepared for the new look Warriors
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 16, 2016 13:56:08 GMT -5
Because the major reason people are not excited about all the things they could do to a house like you are inferring is because they don't have the cash or the means to do it. People who do actually love those houses more because they can customize it and are usually getting a better deal because it needs upgrading that the vast majority of people in that price range cannot afford right away. Sorry I get what u mean but it just doesn't fit your point is all. What are you talking about? My example was about Durrant and his meeting with Celtics. My analogy fits that's perfectly. All reports have stated the Celtics pitch was don't just look at team as currently constructed but what we can become. Talking about it in general terms has nothing to do with Durrant and Celtics, they aren't an average team. You said it yourself they have assets to greatly improve in many different ways going forward. This the last I'll post on this so if u don't get it afterwards we will just agree to disagree. A buyer looking at a house that's not done can customize that how they want. That in the real world is more desirable than a completed house that is not built to your specs. That's just the reality. Not sure how many houses you've bought or how many real estate transactions you've been apart of but this happens to be an area that I know something about. If the cost was the same, most people would rather customize their house to their liking over picking one you couldn't. I was simply referring to your use of an unfinished house vs a finished house. We are way off topic now. Your point was that Durant would have more likely come had they traded for Butler or someone. That's fine - not sure I agree but it's not an absurd view point. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2016 15:48:58 GMT -5
What are you talking about? My example was about Durrant and his meeting with Celtics. My analogy fits that's perfectly. All reports have stated the Celtics pitch was don't just look at team as currently constructed but what we can become. Talking about it in general terms has nothing to do with Durrant and Celtics, they aren't an average team. You said it yourself they have assets to greatly improve in many different ways going forward. This the last I'll post on this so if u don't get it afterwards we will just agree to disagree. A buyer looking at a house that's not done can customize that how they want. That in the real world is more desirable than a completed house that is not built to your specs. That's just the reality. Not sure how many houses you've bought or how many real estate transactions you've been apart of but this happens to be an area that I know something about. If the cost was the same, most people would rather customize their house to their liking over picking one you couldn't. I was simply referring to your use of an unfinished house vs a finished house. We are way off topic now. Your point was that Durant would have more likely come had they traded for Butler or someone. That's fine - not sure I agree but it's not an absurd view point. This is way off topic but most people don't want to customize a whole house. Sure they might want granite countertops or hardwood floors, but most people have no clue when it comes to what goes into finishing a house. Even then most people won't even know if they want oak, maple or hickory. Even if they know they want oak they are amazed to find out there are a ton of different oak floors and finishes. Most people don't know what they want until you show them. Your talking about the like 10% that know exactly what they want and will do the research needed to get what they want. I have remodeled and sold a bunch of houses by the way. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 17, 2016 8:08:21 GMT -5
Sooo KD isn't representative of the top 10%? Jkjk don't answer I just couldn't help myself...
Anyways, these trade rumors are out of control but I think there is nothing to them to be honest. Danny's trades don't get surrounded with this type of hype. I have no doubt that they have checked in on, or been called by other teams, for Griffin, Butler, Cousins, Okafor and Westbrook, etc al but I don't think they are remotely close. If they were things would probably be quieter. I also don't think they are desperate to add anyone now that KD had signed elsewhere and they got Horford.
They wouldn't give up the Nets picks and a bevy of players before the draft and they won't now, especially for a rental. It would be a complete 180 on what they have done and said and Ainge isn't impulsive. As I've stated multiple times, this team should be done for be most part. Send Yabusele and Bentil and Jackson (maybe) to Europe to keep their rights and let them develop.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 17, 2016 8:23:47 GMT -5
I personally think the need to make a major trade is over rated even next year... Obviously the cost matters - I'm talking a gutting type trade just to get a "star". If they can add the right max guy next year plus JJ Redick they'd be in business. Redick is the type of guy they need and adding him would allow them to trade from their back court depth. He'd bring the dimension they are lacking.
Let's play pretend for a minute and say they don't do anything else major this year and end up with the Nets top 4 pick.
You guys love Griffin so let's say they sign him to a max deal and sign Redick (both Clippers that would be ironic sorry Doc).
That would leave them with something like this:
Guards: Thomas, Bradley, Redick, Smart, Rosier, Hunter
Wings: Crowder, Brown, Young
Front court: Horford, Griffin, Olynyk, Mickey, Zizic, Yabusele
Plus, their 2017 top 5 pick and draft rights to guys like Bentil, Jackson and Nader.
Looking at that squad, a couple things jump out at me. First is there is no true point guard and the second is the Wing position could still be upgraded. There is a lot of back court depth that can be used along with the 2018 Nets pick to upgrade certain areas. I'm way ahead of things but the point is there are a lot of posibilities if they just stay patient, to be able to build a LONG term SUSTAINABLE great team versus let's gut things for one super star to try to get over the hump quick. Especially, since doing that doesn't even make you a clear cut favorite in the East let alone the entire NBA.
Stay patient Danny... Stay patient.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 17, 2016 9:04:27 GMT -5
Not sure anyone here loves Griffin - we just don't have your irrational dislike of him as a player.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 17, 2016 11:14:36 GMT -5
Rumors seem to be getting crazier than normal. Latest centers around tweets by Danny and IT indicating both are in/near SD. The leap is that they are their to talk to one of the targets (likely about signing an extension).
Good lord.
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 18, 2016 7:30:00 GMT -5
I don't think they'd be able to sign both Blake and Redick under the salary cap.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 18, 2016 10:05:19 GMT -5
Rumors seem to be getting crazier than normal. Latest centers around tweets by Danny and IT indicating both are in/near SD. The leap is that they are their to talk to one of the targets (likely about signing an extension). Good lord. IT is from Washington fwiw. |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 18, 2016 16:03:33 GMT -5
I don't think they'd be able to sign both Blake and Redick under the salary cap. Nope. In fact, we'd likely have to let go a couple of those lower salary guys to fit just Griffin alone. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 19, 2016 9:10:53 GMT -5
Since we're taking a respite from the talk surrounding Westbrook, Griffin, Okafor . . . I thought I'd bring up a separate, less sexy topic/player.
I recently read something about Larry Sanders being interested in playing again. Would you guys be interested in him? I would assume it would be for the minimum. Seems like a no risk chance at getting some of what we'd hope to get out of a Nerlens Noel trade, no?
Or are his past concerns too much for you to want to bring him into the C's locker room?
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Post by cto94 on Jul 19, 2016 11:01:49 GMT -5
Since we're taking a respite from the talk surrounding Westbrook, Griffin, Okafor . . . I thought I'd bring up a separate, less sexy topic/player. I recently read something about Larry Sanders being interested in playing again. Would you guys be interested in him? I would assume it would be for the minimum. Seems like a no risk chance at getting some of what we'd hope to get out of a Nerlens Noel trade, no? Or are his past concerns too much for you to want to bring him into the C's locker room? If he's in shape and stopped smoking so much weed, he'd be a great fit. I'd be inclined to take a character risk like that just because I think Stevens tends to get the most out of guys, and they seem to have a pretty strong locker room right now, which I'd have to give him a certain amount of credit for, and honestly if you read up on him, he's a really interesting guy, so I'm kinda inclined to root for him anyway |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 19, 2016 12:16:21 GMT -5
Sure why not, his skill set is exactly what this team needs.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 19, 2016 16:42:19 GMT -5
If you hate conspiracy theories and the loose connecting of dots, do NOT read Kevin O'Connor.
I, myself, need to stop.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2016 6:53:48 GMT -5
Not sure anyone here loves Griffin - we just don't have your irrational dislike of him as a player. I don't have an irrational dislike. You guys just seem to think that if someone doesn't like a players fit or thinks they are over rated for the cost then that person HATEs the player. Just because I think trading high level assets and using salary cap space on Griffin is a bad idea it does not mean I have an irrational dislike of the player. I've said time and time again he's very good. People just read what they want to read to be combative at times rather than take a post or posts for what they are. Concerns don't equal hate. This franchise is in great position to grow internally, thru the draft and free agency. Making a gutting trade for a guy who's going to eat your cap space too is a panic move and irrational and will NOT make you a championship contender and it certainly won't give you a good chance at long term sustained success. Thankfully, Danny seems to get this which is likely why he hasn't made a deal. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2016 6:57:27 GMT -5
Speaking of internal growth. A guy we really haven't discussed at all is Marcus Smart and the new CARMELO projections have him being our second best player next year. Is he ready to take the leap? Have you all seen any signs of him breaking out?
I don't know how I feel about him. There were certainly times especially towards the end of the year and in the playoffs where we saw a much more assertive player and when he did that on the offensive end he was exciting. His maturity worries me but those same signs of immaturity kind of make me happy bc they show a competitiveness.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 20, 2016 7:04:28 GMT -5
Larry Sanders would make sense on a two year deal where the second year is a team option. That would mean saying goodbye to Zeller and having Yabusele go overseas.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 20, 2016 9:11:57 GMT -5
Speaking of internal growth. A guy we really haven't discussed at all is Marcus Smart and the new CARMELO projections have him being our second best player next year. Is he ready to take the leap? Have you all seen any signs of him breaking out? I don't know how I feel about him. There were certainly times especially towards the end of the year and in the playoffs where we saw a much more assertive player and when he did that on the offensive end he was exciting. His maturity worries me but those same signs of immaturity kind of make me happy bc they show a competitiveness. I've heard from several people in Boston that are into the club scene that Smart was out partying almost every night last season even the night before games and that kind of concerns me. |
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