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Post by jodyreidnichols on Feb 7, 2017 9:54:16 GMT -5
Wait a minute Seattle should not have ever been in position to score as they had a fluky hail mary type pass to make it to the 10 or so. That's trying to rewrite history AND the facts actually back up Carol he made the right call despite what all the cry babies say through out the country. A pass had not been picked in that situation all season through out the NFL and was very successful while running it was not successful and there had been fumbles. That's a fact, people don't let others who don't know the facts attempt to control a false narrative. Any great comeback needs both sides doing there part to make it happen, so that's a weak attempt to steal glory. They earned it. The pass call was universally panned for a reason. Your argument has no factual basis. You can't argue something as fact, when you don't know what the outcome would have been. You can only second guess...which pretty much everyone did. Jerry you have to respond to the points, you have not addressed any of them, please do so. I have the overwhelming evidence on my side the other is second guessing because they did not like the outcome and need to blame something. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 7, 2017 11:27:56 GMT -5
I have to say I think people are being way too harsh on Atlanta. They tried to do what got them to SB. At that point in game Pats had shutdown running game. It's not like they couldn't have got a negative run and a holding call still. Maybe they fumble it. This wasn't like the Seahawks. They were a run first team, built around a tank of a running back. If Atlanta ran ball 3 straight times, lost a few yards and then kicker misses kick people would be all over them for not trying to win game and get a TD. Number one offense is league went for the win. All the credit in my opinion goes to Pats D, they made plays. Not to take anything away from what the Pats achieved because it's impossible to do so, but the play calling there was absolutely moronic. They could have kneeled. Bill would never call those plays and if his OC did he would likely choke him before he got out of the stadium. It wasn't what cost the Falcons the game, but it was a part of the idiotic moves that did. As much as we admire the gigantic effort by the Pats to take the game, such a comeback doesn't happen unless the other team gets very stupid like that. Which isn't a knock at all on the Pats, it's just what it is. No comeback ever doesn't involve someone choking. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 7, 2017 12:28:39 GMT -5
No comeback ever doesn't involve someone choking. I don't know that I agree with this, BUT I'll agree that no comeback of the magnitude of what we saw on Sunday doesn't involve some choking. The Falcons went up 28-3 midway through the third freaking quarter. That's, for all intents and purposes, a four-possession game. You don't lose that kind of lead in a quarter and a half JUST because Brady is Brady and the Pats are the Pats. They had four drives and took 6:55 off the clock if my math is right. I know that Coleman got hurt but they still had Freeman... MILK. THE. CLOCK. Did they not run because of Mack's injury too or something? Things had to go perfectly on both sides of the ball - both in the sense of offense and defense and in the sense of both sides of the line of scrimmage - for the Patriots to come back, and that's what happened. I don't think we're ever going to see anything like that game again, and definitely not on that stage just based on probability. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 15:35:51 GMT -5
I have to say I think people are being way too harsh on Atlanta. They tried to do what got them to SB. At that point in game Pats had shutdown running game. It's not like they couldn't have got a negative run and a holding call still. Maybe they fumble it. This wasn't like the Seahawks. They were a run first team, built around a tank of a running back. If Atlanta ran ball 3 straight times, lost a few yards and then kicker misses kick people would be all over them for not trying to win game and get a TD. Number one offense is league went for the win. All the credit in my opinion goes to Pats D, they made plays. Not to take anything away from what the Pats achieved because it's impossible to do so, but the play calling there was absolutely moronic. They could have kneeled. Bill would never call those plays and if his OC did he would likely choke him before he got out of the stadium. It wasn't what cost the Falcons the game, but it was a part of the idiotic moves that did. As much as we admire the gigantic effort by the Pats to take the game, such a comeback doesn't happen unless the other team gets very stupid like that. Which isn't a knock at all on the Pats, it's just what it is. No comeback ever doesn't involve someone choking. You are being so unrealistic its not even funny. No team would ever kneel in that position. You act like they could run clock out and kick game winning FG and Pats have no chance to win. The fact you brought up kneeling just shows your using hindsight and when you do that you can always second guess every move. They stopped running because Pats had shut it down! They took away the edge and they couldn't run up the middle. That's on the Pats making adjustments. They could have just ran the ball 3 times and punted the ball. But they trusted Ryan and he hit Jones to get them in field goal range, with one of the best catches you'll ever see. With the game on the line they trusted the league MVP. It made sense, as outside a fumble he was having a great game. They wanted a TD to put a dagger in Pats comeback bid. So you know for sure that if they run the ball twice they don't lose any yards, still get a holding call or maybe even fumble the ball? People that Choked, Ryan that fumble was huge. But more so I say its the coaches. Pats made great changes at halftime and Falcons didn't adjust. Pats started blitzing and Falcons never went to max protection or called screens. Overall though Pats just stopped making mistakes and started making plays. Looking at box score it looked like Falcons dominated the game, but they really didn't. Pats moved ball on them all first half, they just kept making mistakes. Brady was missing throws to a wide open targets, wasn't hitting guys in stride, WR and RBs were dropping a ton of passes and we had two stupid turnovers. Brady was also taking sacks after holding ball for like 7 seconds, which he usually never does, he just throws ball away. If we played well in 1st half this game would have been a blowout win for Pats. The minute we got close and Falcons started to feel presure they started making mistakes. A big reason why though is because Pats D was excellent. Flowers was a beast and sure looks like a future stud. Look at the coverage on Jones big catch, it doesn't get any better than that. If we can keep most of D together, next year we are going to be a top 5 defense. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 7, 2017 15:59:01 GMT -5
You are being so unrealistic its not even funny. No team would ever kneel in that position. You act like they could run clock out and kick game winning FG and Pats have no chance to win. They should and they might after the magnitude on Shanahan's f*ck up on that drive. You pretty much can't do 2 things there: go backwards or turn the ball over. That's it. Calling a pass with somewhat slow developing routes there is just about as idiotic as it gets. To be perfectly clear about what I'm saying here: The Pats won the game by being awesome and making adjustments and by having the GOAT as the QB. But the Falcons don't lose that game if they didn't get stupid. Not because the Patriots couldn't do it just by being heroic, but because it was too big of a hole to climb out without some help. It's a mix of a very talented team being perfectly coached and getting into an insane rhythm with the game on the line and another one getting tired and making mistakes on every level. We may never see that again in the Super Bowl. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 16:39:28 GMT -5
You are being so unrealistic its not even funny. No team would ever kneel in that position. You act like they could run clock out and kick game winning FG and Pats have no chance to win. They should and they might after the magnitude on Shanahan's f*ck up on that drive. You pretty much can't do 2 things there: go backwards or turn the ball over. That's it. Calling a pass with somewhat slow developing routes there is just about as idiotic as it gets. To be perfectly clear about what I'm saying here: The Pats won the game by being awesome and making adjustments and by having the GOAT as the QB. But the Falcons don't lose that game if they didn't get stupid. Not because the Patriots couldn't do it just by being heroic, but because it was too big of a hole to climb out without some help. It's a mix of a very talented team being perfectly coached and getting into an insane rhythm with the game on the line and another one getting tired and making mistakes on every level. We may never see that again in the Super Bowl. You can certainly question the play call, i just don't think you can question not running it twice. Like I said before a screen pass would have seemed perfect there. I wonder if Falcons 3rd down back being injured influenced the play calling. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 7, 2017 17:05:07 GMT -5
You can certainly question the play call, i just don't think you can question not running it twice. Like I said before a screen pass would have seemed perfect there. I wonder if Falcons 3rd down back being injured influenced the play calling. A screen pass would have been perfect there or in the fumble play. I have a completely not scientific explanation for the Falcons late game calls in that teams really do feel they need to play perfectly to beat the Pats. Not without reason, but that leads to nervousness when things start to go south or it leads to coaches trying to outsmart Belichick which just never works. The Pats were coming down on Atlanta like mad buffalos, which accentuated this even further. |
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 7, 2017 17:18:44 GMT -5
So glad there wasn't some controversial flag that went the Pats' way that decided the game.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 7, 2017 17:45:05 GMT -5
The pass call was universally panned for a reason. Your argument has no factual basis. You can't argue something as fact, when you don't know what the outcome would have been. You can only second guess...which pretty much everyone did. Jerry you have to respond to the points, you have not addressed any of them, please do so. I have the overwhelming evidence on my side the other is second guessing because they did not like the outcome and need to blame something. If we agree that there are really 2 options at that point...run or pass, IMO, the clear choice is run. There are more timing elements needed to complete a pass. That is why run oriented offenses are considered conservative playcalling. Given the quality of the back it should have been the play called. You point to that play not having been picked, I am really not even aware, anectodally speaking, of many plays that are even run on a middle slant from the 1 yard line. At a minimum, it should be a fade route or an out of sort. The pass play's relevance to other occurances like that doesn't factor in the time or the game, which are big human performance variables. That said, the play by Butler was amazing. And I should walk back the gift analogy slightly. I don't believe 1 play wins or loses games, and both teams played well enough to win. However, I do think that these coaches really try and outsmart themselves in high pressure situations. I don't think that anyone (or at least an extreme minority) would have second guessed a run call by Lynch, and I think there is a reason for that. Likewise to UMass point, I don't think anyone would have blamed Falcons for 3 runs and a field goal, in a game that they ended up losing. |
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Post by Coreno on Feb 7, 2017 18:53:22 GMT -5
So glad there wasn't some controversial flag that went the Pats' way that decided the game. I was worried the PI on the pass to Bennett at the goal line would turn into one of these. It was the right call, but in a spot like that sometimes you wonder if refs are afraid to call anything that isnt super blatant or egregious. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 7, 2017 19:26:19 GMT -5
Bennett should have caught that ball even with the PI.... that was first down tho, with the way the Pats were moving does anyone doubt they get in the end zone even if refs didn't call it?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 7, 2017 19:34:48 GMT -5
Something being "universally" panned doesn't make it fact based either. There are a lot of coaches who defended the decision for logical reasons. You can second guess for sure but people like to hate. Also the win probability people might want to take a break. Between the election and last night they aren't rolling so hot Not singling you out...or even debating here. I came across this because of your election night point from Nate Silver, I thought it was interesting. the-super-bowl-wasnt-really-like-the-election |
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 7, 2017 20:04:46 GMT -5
So glad there wasn't some controversial flag that went the Pats' way that decided the game. I second that, cant give the haters a reason to hate. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 8, 2017 7:53:50 GMT -5
The Patriots won without having the lead for even one second.
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Post by costpet on Feb 8, 2017 8:17:55 GMT -5
This was the first SB won by a team that didn't score an extra point.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 8, 2017 10:24:37 GMT -5
So glad there wasn't some controversial flag that went the Pats' way that decided the game. I second that, cant give the haters a reason to hate. Apparently there's a conspiracy theory brewing in some corners of the internet that White didn't get in on the last play or something. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 8, 2017 10:27:44 GMT -5
Bennett should have caught that ball even with the PI.... that was first down tho, with the way the Pats were moving does anyone doubt they get in the end zone even if refs didn't call it? Agreed that Bennett really should have had that ball. He needed to be a monster there and wasn't. Any chance ANYONE could have taken that ball out of Gronk's hands? That and the next play where Bennett fell on his butt (and Beasley had a medium chance at picking it) were two places where I really worried no Gronk would come back to haunt them. Thankfully not! |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 8, 2017 10:33:19 GMT -5
I second that, cant give the haters a reason to hate. Apparently there's a conspiracy theory brewing in some corners of the internet that White didn't get in on the last play or something. A pic is floating with his knee down and the football short (after having been pushed back while breaking the plane). Video is pretty clear though. Good think Football isn't played in stop motion |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 8, 2017 11:19:02 GMT -5
He was in
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 10, 2017 18:30:47 GMT -5
Even if they had called that just short, the Falcons D was gassed and Brady could've snuck that next one in.
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