ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Oct 24, 2016 14:58:06 GMT -5
I think Bentil is going to be surprisingly really good. Sad to see him go.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 24, 2016 23:34:33 GMT -5
What would you have done instead? Cut someone else? If Hunter pushed Young to grow up and work on his game and Young turns into a better player isn't that a win? Bentil, I think should have been a draft and stash pick. But making a trade for the sake of making a trade isn't a smart move. If those guys are clear NBA players another team would have given up a second round pick for them.... I wouldn't have re-signed Zeller to that crazy contract after he hardly played last year. Only way that makes sense is if they can use his contract for a trade. So overtime that might be a smart move, we'll see. I also question keeping Jackson over Bentil from a roster point of view. You already have Thomas, Rozier, Smart and now Jackson as PGs. Both really didn't show much, but long term I loved Bentil's potential to score and stretch the court. Also after this season we might only have Horford, Mickey and some guys currently playing overseas if we bring them over I also would have liked to see a trade for a C/PF that can rebound/defend/protect the rim. Danny says we have a loaded front court, but only Mickey can do those things and we aren't really sure if he plays good D outside of blocking shots. Why would anyone trade for players that they know a team has to release? All teams currently have full rosters. You needed to make that trade months ago, before teams filled rosters. If you went to a team like the Nets before free agency and offered Hunter for a 2nd round pick I bet they do it in a second. At this point Hunter and Bentil will have to wait for injuries on other teams and then I'm sure they will get signed. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 25, 2016 5:40:44 GMT -5
The hope was that a team down on the waiver claim list would want to guarantee themselves some time to work with one of them (instead of hoping they win the claim or the player gets though waivers).
Most teams that have room for a player making more than the minimum, though, we're at the top of the order I think.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 25, 2016 7:51:11 GMT -5
If a guy is "definitely an NBA player", any team that's rebuilding and needs talent gives up a second round pick for him. No question. Sure rosters are full but they aren't full of good players. The Nets need talent, if they felt Hunter was definitely and NBA player a future second down the line is a small price to pay. They couldn't have traded Hunter earlier because they didn't know who between him or Young would win the job. Competition is a good thing. If Young turns into a good player, it may very well be partially due to the presence of Hunter, which would make the draft pick worth while.
When Young was drafted we all knew at the time he was a project. It alway is interesting to me why the fans, media and team seem to get so frustrated when things play out how they are projected to. Now for this team they can see certain things we can't like work ethic etc and I'm sure that's the case here. Danny kind of said this when he said this is the first time he's had to work for anything. Kids younger and had way more upside than RJ... I don't look at Hunter as being a wasted asset.
Bentil pick I can see the points on. But it was a mid second.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2016 13:09:00 GMT -5
Rip the thing is both Hunter and Bentil aren't currently good NBA players. They need development time. We knew that when we drafted both players. For me Hunter was just like Young, even though he was older. He can from mid major program and was the man. He had to learn to play against better players and how to play off the ball. With all that he still out played Young in two summer leagues and earned minutes last year over Young.
Sure Young has a higher upside. He has a crazy wing span and is a very good athlete. But if it took him having to fight to make roster for him to compete that worries me. Does he have the inner drive needed to be a good NBA player?
I just don't agree that a first round pick isn't a waste because he provided competition for one plus year. That's what second round picks and undrafted free agents are for. My problem isn't so much that they kept Young and not Hunter. It's that we wasted a first round pick without ever giving him a true chance. I mean he wasn't Fab Melo, he had moment were he showed NBA talent.
Time will tell if they both get picked up by teams in the next month or two then NBA teams think they have the potential I see, if they play the most of the year in D league maybe I was wrong.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 25, 2016 19:10:55 GMT -5
Avery Bradley better than John Wall? Eh that's a stretch but Avery at his salary I believe is likely more valuable. Bradley is one of the best defensive guards in the league and can shoot. I'll take Bradley over Wall any day. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2016 22:52:34 GMT -5
Avery Bradley better than John Wall? Eh that's a stretch but Avery at his salary I believe is likely more valuable. Bradley is one of the best defensive guards in the league and can shoot. I'll take Bradley over Wall any day. So you wouldn't trade Bradley for Wall straight up? Come on that's a joke right? The trade Idea was for Bradley and Nets pick which we hope is top 5, with a chance at being top 3 if not the #1 overall pick. That in a draft that is said to have a bunch of franchise players at the top of draft. Like Rip said Bradley and that pick is for Wall is a tough call, I can see pros and cons both ways. But if your just talking Bradley for Wall that's what we call a no brainer. I'm a huge Bradley fan and remember having to support him heavily when Danny gave him a 4 year 32 million deal. That being said Wall is 2-3 times the player Bradley is. Wall averaged 19.9 points, 10.2 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.9 steals last year. He also has really improved his 3 point shot since coming into league. He shot 35.1% last year on a career high attempts. Bradley averaged 15.2 points, 2.9 rebounds, 2.1 assists last year. Bradley was 89th in wins contributed to team at 5.31 and Wall was 18th with 10.62, which is double what Bradley had. Wall is a complete player, while Bradley is really only a shooter that plays good D. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 26, 2016 0:04:45 GMT -5
"Plays good D"
Bradley is a first team defensive pro that can guard the best guards in the league. He's an elite defender. John Wall is a offensive point guard, doesn't surprise me that he has more points and assists. I'm still taking Bradley over Wall any day. This team has enough point guards as it is.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2016 0:31:54 GMT -5
"Plays good D" Bradley is a first team defensive pro that can guard the best guards in the league. He's an elite defender. John Wall is a offensive point guard, doesn't surprise me that he has more points and assists. I'm still taking Bradley over Wall any day. This team has enough point guards as it is. Bradley is an elite on ball defender, maybe best in league. That being said he is also undersized for a SG and struggles with bigger SG. If he were a PG you might be able to call him an elite defender, but he is a SG . Someone like Marcus Smart is a better overall defender in my opinion because he has the size and wingspan that Bradley doesn't. Bradley has never put up elite real plus minus numbers, hence his impact on D is not elite. He has also never put up elite steal numbers. He's also a very poor rebounder. That's why I call him a good defender. There's a lot more to D than on ball D! Bradley's overall impact on D is no where near what someone like Tony Allen can do for example. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 26, 2016 7:33:03 GMT -5
Bradley doesn't guard SG all that much, he is out there to disrupt point guards. He's a first team pro defender. He's one of the best in the league and the rest of the league views him that way. I'll take their opinions more seriously. I'm not trading Wall for Bradley, give me something way better than that. I'll trade Bradley in a package for Cousins.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2016 13:09:45 GMT -5
Do you even know why he made first pro all D this year after not making it before? Simple he did an awesome job on Steph Curry the MVP. When Celtics play a team when best player is a pg Bradley's size, that is ball dominant and the offense runs through that player, Bradley's impact is huge. Steph comments on Bradley are a main reason he won. The problem is only a handful of teams are like that. I swear those are the only games you must watch. If you watched the games you would see that a ton of players have taken Bradley into paint and scored at will. Bradley's also not great at switching on pick and rolls. Never mind on offense he can only shoot three's and mid range jumpers. He is a bad rebounder, not a good passer, can't create his own shot and almost never drives to the basket.
You think because he made first team all D he's better than a 3 time all star. Maybe you should look at things like PER, RPM and amount of wins a player adds to team. 95% if not a 100% of GMs in this league would make that trade in a second. Go on an ESPN chat and ask an NBA expert if he thinks Bradley is a better player than Wall. Then wait to hear exactly what I am saying, Wall is a way more complete player than Bradley and it's not even close!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 26, 2016 19:15:33 GMT -5
There are a lot of pgs like John Wall in this league. There's no one in the league that can guard 1 on 1 like Bradley does. It's unique and special quite honestly. This team once again has 3 pg's, I wouldn't trade Bradley to acquire yet another one.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2016 20:57:02 GMT -5
Well this is embarrassing!
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2016 10:02:26 GMT -5
You can make a solid argument for not trading Bradley for Wall straight up but none of it has anything to do with Bradley being better than Wall. That's just not true. This is a great example of over-rating a player you watch all the time and have a great appreciation for.
The reason you might not make that deal is because this is a salary cap league and the salaries are massively different. Wall kills your flexibility and leaves you short of being a championship team. Whereas keeping Bradley allows you to sign a max guy (Griffin? Etc) then resign Bradley and Thomas using their bird rights.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 28, 2016 22:24:11 GMT -5
Few notes from the first few games. Boston just got dominated on the boards by the Bulls and that worries me. I don't see Gibson and Lopez as elite rebounders and they controlled the glass.
Also the Nets have depth and that's no good. I know it's only two games of a long season but they sure don't look like one of the worst 2-3 teams in the league.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 30, 2016 10:39:02 GMT -5
I was against trading for Blake Griffin and still am, but he should be their top target this offseason. If they can sign Griffin and keep the Nets picks this team turns into a championship contender in my mind. I love the players on this team and how they work to improve their games every year (looking at you Avery Bradley). Like UMass pointed to above rebounding is the biggest weakness right now. Griffin is an elite rebounder and can score. He adds half court play making and is a great fit for this team. Losing Jerebko and likely Johnson but adding Griffin is the step forward the franchise needs. I'm excited about this team this year and think they can go far and make Cleveland work a bit in the playoffs but we all know they need more for a true Championship run. If Danny can pull off adding Horford then Griffin to the talent pool without having to give up any picks and players that's a home run. Thomas Bradley Crowder Horford Griffin Bench: Smart Brown Olynik Rozier Top 3 nets pick Mickey Zizic Yes please  |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 31, 2016 8:22:32 GMT -5
Some roster deadlines today.
Have to decide whether to exercise options on Smart, Rozier and Young.
It's also the last day to negotiate a KO extension or he becomes a RFA.
Smart and Rozier should get options exercised and the other two should have nothing done. I think that's pretty obvious and what will happen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 31, 2016 12:19:51 GMT -5
The Celtics need a true center like a Demarcus Cousins if they want to truly fix their rebounding problem. It has been a problem for years and Horford is a power forward by definition.
I would trade one or both Nets picks to get it done. It needs to happen in my opinion though. Either that or Anthony Davis, both of these players should be the Celtics two best trade options.
They have enough guards and swingman players. They need size and strength in the paint. It has been a problem for years.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 31, 2016 13:31:23 GMT -5
The game is changing. Not saying a traditional big CAN'T be part of a championship team but Tristan Thompson and Draymond Green played significant C minutes last year.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 31, 2016 15:20:49 GMT -5
Just a couple of thoughts on RP's potential lineup:
1. I keep reading about how the new CBS will increase the cap holds for RFAs next year (for example, BasketballInsiders showed Oladipo's hold at $13Mn but the first year of his recently signed extension - 18.8 per the Vertical - is being compared to his hold of $19Mn). The BI hold for KO is 7.7 but if it's over $10 (WAG) then the CAP room before signing Griffin would be about $26Mn. Not sure what Griff would be eligible for but if it's Durant money, that's right at the cusp. Factor in the hold for a top 3 pick and they'd have to move someone else.
2. That lineup would only be good for 1 year until Boston would have to come up with extensions for Thomas, Bradley and Smart. I would think that puts them into Luxury Tax territory I would think (assuming Thomas/Bradley continue on the progression that they are on). Not sure if Wyc and Co would do that.
3. Obviously, this projections is putting all the eggs in the Griffin basket. I'm guessing Danny would want to make a more certain move (assuming there is one to make).
These points aren't intended to shoot down RPs thoughts, just to add commentary (I'd love that lineup too). As always, I'm not saying to make a trade for the sake of it. Just adding some detail to the discussion.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 1, 2016 1:09:06 GMT -5
I think the game is getting away from the slow unathletic centers/PF, not bigs in general. In my opinion you can easily still build teams around bigs, they just need to be athletic.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 1, 2016 13:11:08 GMT -5
Wyc is already on record saying they will pay the tax. They did it before when they had a championship squad. These aren't owners who would let money get in the way of winning.
KO's injury is going to help them keep him for a lot less than people project. He needs a Ryan Anderson type year to get his big money. And if he gets it I'm ok with him walking.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 1, 2016 14:40:08 GMT -5
Hope that's true on the tax.
On the bright side, last night's extensions probably took OKC out of the running for Blake. They are projected to be $25.5 Mn over the cap next year. $13.7Mn can come off if they renounce Collison/Morrow. Holds for RFAs are Roberson($5.4) and Lauvergne ($3.2) but again those could go up. Also a $1Mn option on newly acquired Jerami Grant (whom they just gave up Ilysava - a pending UFA - and a protected 1st round pick for).
Not sure they could come close to creating enough space for a Max contract (even if they can dump Kanter)
Outside of acquiring guys who would play for the minimum, it looks like they are locked into a run with Westbrook/Oladipo/Adams/Kanter?ETC.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 2, 2016 11:21:19 GMT -5
Horford in concussion protocol program. Out tonight. I hope they give Mickey some time.
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Post by beantown on Nov 3, 2016 21:42:11 GMT -5
So... where are the Jaylen Brown doubters now? Lmao enjoy the crow, this kid is gonna be a stud.  |
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