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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2017 20:49:19 GMT -5
My God you just keep making yourself look worse. People make mistakes it's OK, but instead of just learning from it, you try to prove me wrong by saying something else that isn't true. Max length for sign and trade is 4 year. Only way Thomas gets 5 years if we give it to him. There is no way around it! Just cause I said I liked other players doesn't mean I wouldn't take Fultz right now at #1, because I would. According to Ford though it's not nearly as clear as you think it is. Bunch of teams have Ball ranked higher and at least one team has Tatum ranked #1. Fultz looks like the #1 guy overall, but it's not a no brainer for every team. He's not a LeBron for example where every single team takes him #1. Those one year deals with opt outs are going to stop because after the next increase there won't be more huge increases like we have seen. I hadn't been aware of the rule change recently. I knew it had happened recently with the Love trade. The one year deals won't stop if players want to go get a max deal with a team the prefer to sign with and want the 5 year max deal to follow. If everyone is agreeing Fultz is the best overall player then it is pretty clear cut by the way, the only way the Celtics draft someone else is if they trade down, not take a different player at number one. That is the truth. Kevin Love was under contract, he wasn't a sign and trade. Not everyone is agreeing on Fultz, did you not read what I said? |
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Post by bookiemetts on May 17, 2017 21:25:22 GMT -5
Jaylen needs to start Game 2.
I don't care what he does offensively but he's got the best shot of "stopping" Lebron.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,846
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Post by wcp3 on May 17, 2017 21:36:25 GMT -5
Nah, pretty much everyone agrees on Fultz. That includes the Celtics front office, which loves him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2017 22:55:10 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2017 0:44:51 GMT -5
Ya, it would be 50/50 split on Ball and Fultz for some teams. YOU were the one who suggested that Tatum or Jackson could be picked number one. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2017 1:57:43 GMT -5
Ya, it would be 50/50 split on Ball and Fultz for some teams. YOU were the one who suggested that Tatum or Jackson could be picked number one. That's a flat out lie. For one I never said a thing about Jackson, second I never said Tatum would be picked #1. I said at least one team had him rated #1. Those are Fords words not mine. You're on a roll keep them coming, you're bound to get one right eventually. Well maybe not. |
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Post by jmei on May 18, 2017 6:05:28 GMT -5
Cut out the bickering. Thanks.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2017 7:38:36 GMT -5
The one good thing about getting smashed could be that its a reminder that trading the pick to add a player isn't going to put us over the top on its own so we are better off keeping said pick. Until they make the pick and keep it, I'm going to be worried they might trade it.
I want the long term approach with the Nets picks. I also think the best short-term possibility is to add a guy like Hayward or even take a chance on Griffin and then work the young players in. Next year we could be very similar to where we are now, but in two years with Jaylen in year 3 and Fultz in year 2 plus other growth from some young players depending who's here (Smart, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, Bradley...), we could be ready to take over. Cleveland and/or Golden State maybe be slowing down a bit at that time...
If there has been any truth to Hayward and the Celtics, then I find it hard to believe he won't be here next year. I just don't know if there is any real truth to those rumors.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2017 7:56:50 GMT -5
Knowing Danny he could get pick #1 and not even take Fultz or Ball. Yeah you totally didn't say this. If I know Danny, he would NEVER take anyone but Fultz or Ball at number one. Who would he TAKE?!!! Don't spin it and say trade, that isn't what YOU said. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2017 7:58:42 GMT -5
Ya, it would be 50/50 split on Ball and Fultz for some teams. YOU were the one who suggested that Tatum or Jackson could be picked number one. That's a flat out lie. For one I never said a thing about Jackson, second I never said Tatum would be picked #1. I said at least one team had him rated #1. Those are Fords words not mine. You're on a roll keep them coming, you're bound to get one right eventually. Well maybe not. You just been quoted above, these were your words. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2017 7:59:08 GMT -5
Knowing Danny he could get pick #1 and not even take Fultz or Ball. Yeah you totally didn't say this. If I know Danny, he would NEVER take anyone but Fultz or Ball at number one. We were just asked to stop the bickering but since you brought this up. A comment like this is meant to highlight Danny Ainges unpredictability. Very few thought he would take Jaylen Brown at 3 last year, but he did just that. Sure there were some rumblings but you are going to hear rumblings leading up to the draft this year about Josh Jackson being Danny's choice etc. |
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2017 8:02:59 GMT -5
Mannix just on T&R:
1. Fultz CLEARLY the guy. His "sources" (don't know how they measure relative to Ford's) indicated it's him and then a drop to Ball.
2. Agrees with RPJ that the move is to build long term and wait CLE and GS out (I'd just add that you don't have to stand pat, mind you. Build to stay in front of everyone else and be the #2 East team).
3. Thinks one of the most interesting things this summer will be IT's extension. He doesn't believe that's high on Boston's list. Wonders how Thomas (who wants to get paid) will react if Boston doesn't look to extend him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2017 8:03:25 GMT -5
Yeah you totally didn't say this. If I know Danny, he would NEVER take anyone but Fultz or Ball at number one. We were just asked to stop the bickering but since you brought this up. A comment like this is meant to highlight Danny Ainges unpredictability. Very few thought he would take Jaylen Brown at 3 last year, but he did just that. Sure there were some rumblings but you are going to hear rumblings leading up to the draft this year about Josh Jackson being Danny's choice etc. I didn't read the comments above but his. I won't bring it up again. The guy is calling me a flat liar and is being pompous. I'll quote him anytime he wants me to. The ONLY unpredictability was with the trade aspect with the pick. If he keeps the pick, he WILL take the best player available because that's what Danny does. |
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2017 8:12:55 GMT -5
Hate that I'm jumping in on this but wasn't Brown unpredictable?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2017 8:19:25 GMT -5
Hate that I'm jumping in on this but wasn't Brown unpredictable? Anything after number 2 in the draft last year was unpredictable from what I remember. |
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2017 8:33:16 GMT -5
Yeah but few of the "draft experts" had Brown as #3. It wasn't until mocks turned to "what we are hearing" vs "what teams should do" that we got any indication Brown was possible.
In this context, I think that validates the "Danny can be unpredictable" narrative.
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Post by jmei on May 18, 2017 8:45:12 GMT -5
I'll repeat myself-- let's cut out the bickering. Thanks.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2017 8:56:15 GMT -5
My comment was 100% like Rip said you never know what Danny will do. Right now Fultz is #1 for us, but workouts haven't happened yet. By all accounts Brown's workouts are what made him the #3 pick last year. I never said Jackson or Tatum were going to be picked #1. That just never happened.
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2017 9:05:11 GMT -5
So it would seem most agree that drafting Fultz and signing Hayward is the direction. But how do we get there? Seems the key move would be to either (note that in either case, another smaller move would be required):
1. Trade Bradley for picks or,
2. Renounce Kelly
Which do you do? I like KO for what he is but fear that he's going to get paid more than his value (does someone needing a stretch actually pay him to be a starter??).
Meanwhile, Bradley has 1 year left before unrestricted free agency so he'll have to be addressed 1 way or another. But if Mannix is right and Danny isn't rushing to extend Isaiah, does that mean that he's thinking similarly to JMei (coupled with the intended timeline for this team) and Fultz is the PG he wants to build around. Does that make Bradley more desirable (many have felt him at SG with a bigger PG is the perfect pairing as they can switch off on D for better matchups).
Even if it's a lock that GH wants to sign here, how Boston makes that happen should make for an interesting summer.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2017 9:08:06 GMT -5
I'm torn on a player like Griffin. We would need to get rid of so many players to get him and he just keeps getting injured. He's not a perfect fit next to Horford, but would be a massive upgrade over Johnson. I just fear we give up a ton of depth and he gets injured for playoffs.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2017 9:14:24 GMT -5
Right now I keep Bradley and let KO go. Bradley is just a better player. KO could also get an offer while we are trying to sign a max free agent that could put a wrench in our plans.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2017 9:20:03 GMT -5
Texas if you trade Bradley to clear space, at his salary it basically means your trading him for future picks. A pick this year would have a cap hold. It might make sense if a team like the Magic offered you an unprotected 2018 pick or something like that.
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2017 9:37:47 GMT -5
Agreed. Bradley seemed most logical bc of his pending status and the upcoming logjam at the Wings (especially if you're drafting Fultz as a wing initially and getting Hayward). Meanwhile, you'll have Horford and the potential of Zizic and Yabu in the Bigs category. That's pretty thin. Sometimes, roster balance and cap management trumps "who is the better player". Not suggesting that's how I'd go but it's probably not cut and dry. EDIT: Since it's going to take multiple moves, they COULD move Bradley for some incoming hold (pick or cheaper play) taking a chunk out of the $10 and then you just have to make a larger move for the other piece. Of course, this is assuming Hayward is going to demand the absolute maximum for his service time. It's possible (not sure how probable) that he just wants to come here and he signs a slightly less than max deal (maybe a deal with a quick opt out so he can then gain the 35Mn max?  I think that's legal right?) |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 18, 2017 11:28:12 GMT -5
3. Thinks one of the most interesting things this summer will be IT's extension. He doesn't believe that's high on Boston's list. Wonders how Thomas (who wants to get paid) will react if Boston doesn't look to extend him. He's either traded or extended. I really don't see Danny just letting him walk. What would that accomplish? |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2017 11:29:13 GMT -5
Agreed. Bradley seemed most logical bc of his pending status and the upcoming logjam at the Wings (especially if you're drafting Fultz as a wing initially and getting Hayward). Meanwhile, you'll have Horford and the potential of Zizic and Yabu in the Bigs category. That's pretty thin. Sometimes, roster balance and cap management trumps "who is the better player". Not suggesting that's how I'd go but it's probably not cut and dry. EDIT: Since it's going to take multiple moves, they COULD move Bradley for some incoming hold (pick or cheaper play) taking a chunk out of the $10 and then you just have to make a larger move for the other piece. Of course, this is assuming Hayward is going to demand the absolute maximum for his service time. It's possible (not sure how probable) that he just wants to come here and he signs a slightly less than max deal (maybe a deal with a quick opt out so he can then gain the 35Mn max? I think that's legal right?) The Celtics won't be in a spot to sign him to the 35m extension for 3 years when they have his full bird rights. But I think he needs those 3 years because you need 10 years in the league for that if I remember correctly. |
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I think that's legal right?)