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Sale to BOS for Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, Diaz
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 6, 2016 17:46:18 GMT -5
So what does this mean for E-Rod? Yes, this trades gives the Sox depth. So if there is overcrowding of starters for 5 spots, is E-Rod on the first bus to Pawtucket simply because he has options? So dumb. Erod is major league ready, he has nothing to prove in AAA. Dump buchholz, beg the MLB to revoke the pomeranz trade, and start erod. straw man?
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Dec 6, 2016 17:48:04 GMT -5
For everyone here that completely fails to realize what an amazing value this deal is (and there are a lot of you), especially in a SP market headlined by 38 year old Rich Hill and Jason Hammel, I offer you this article. Same thing with the Thornburg trade this morning. grantland.com/features/dave-dombrowski-detroit-tigers/Dombrowski almost never loses his trades, he wins, and wins big. The #HOTTAKE overreactions are absurd and quite frankly, shows how little a person knows about baseball and market values.
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 6, 2016 17:57:07 GMT -5
You are overreacting in the opposite direction and your hot take is lukewarm.
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Post by glassox on Dec 6, 2016 18:09:27 GMT -5
Just about 2 1/2 years ago after the Lester trade we had nothing for a starting rotation. Of course not every move has been made by DD but he and others have built the rotation into possibly the best in baseball.
I'm happy we got such a proven talent that is locked up for years. I'm also happy we didn't trade JBJ in this deal. I think the chemistry with him and mookie is important enough not to break up.
I was a little concerned that Yoan Moncada was juicing back in Cuba. Steroid user tend to catch the injury bug. Of course that could be way off. I thought the same about Yasiel Puig. All that being said it hurts to loose such talent but I really like how this team is setup for years to come. Poor deepjohn needs to change the color of his Sox now.
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Post by dnfl333 on Dec 6, 2016 18:20:57 GMT -5
Vintage Dombrowski
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Post by deepjohn on Dec 6, 2016 18:31:59 GMT -5
Someone needs to check on deepjohn. In the crazy commodity world of prospects, it was time for the crazy commodity trader to sell high on Kopech, whose stock could not be any higher than it is now. Sale for Kopech? Sounds too good to pass up. However, Dombrowski the high-stakes gambler was bound to make that epic, bad trade sooner or later. You can only get lucky, as he has, so many times. This one will be the trade that ruins Dombrowski's whole career. All people will remember is, Dombrowski traded Kopech? What a moron! It would be extra rich irony if Moncada finds a way to stop whiffing, but that would be asking too much.
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Post by preston on Dec 6, 2016 18:48:01 GMT -5
For everyone here that completely fails to realize what an amazing value this deal is (and there are a lot of you), especially in a SP market headlined by 38 year old Rich Hill and Jason Hammel, I offer you this article. Same thing with the Thornburg trade this morning. grantland.com/features/dave-dombrowski-detroit-tigers/Dombrowski almost never loses his trades, he wins, and wins big. The #HOTTAKE overreactions are absurd and quite frankly, shows how little a person knows about baseball and market values. It's not the trade in a vacuum, it's everything he's done since he arrived. I'm a fan of this deal and some of the minor deals, but he's mainly traded away value for not a lot of wins in return, in his short tenure here. I will never be a fan of over paying for relief pitching; I don't see great long term returns with that approach.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 6, 2016 19:12:22 GMT -5
All I have to say is that this team damn well better win.
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Post by libertine on Dec 6, 2016 19:26:53 GMT -5
I actually like this trade, and I am not one who likes the idea of trading multiple top prospects on principle.
I know he had great minor league numbers, and all the tools to be a solid, if not great, major league player but I was alarmed by Moncada's cameo at the end of last season. He was clueless on hitting curves. I am much higher on Devers as a prospect, despite Moncada being the higher rated of the two, and we kept him.
Kopech could be a legit ace someday, possibly an elite closer, or he could be pumping gas back home in Texas in 5 years. Getting suspended and then breaking his hand fighting his teammate raised red flags for me. I much prefer trading him and keeping Groome instead of visa versa. Which we did.
Basabe and Diaz...I see them as low ceiling major leaguers.
And we kept Swihart (for now depending on what DD has in mind for what I imagine will be the impending trade involving one of the excess starters, which could include Swihart as a chip).
The key for me with this deal, whether it is a good one or a bad one long term imo is what we do with our youngsters. I would like to see one or all of Xander, Mookie and Beni get locked up with long term deals over the next couple years. We have made this trade because of the young core of our team and the decision that the top prospects on the farm could be dealt because of the young talent already on the ML level. I know locking up Xander long term will be tough (Boras) but signing 2 or 3 to extensions should be imperative. For the next few years the farm system is going to be of much less use in terms of talent for the ML roster or potential trading chips...
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Post by congusgambler33 on Dec 6, 2016 19:40:29 GMT -5
after all that has been done, all that is left is for DD to trade 1 or 2 of the starters for minor league prospects in areas that we are weak in. Moreland fits the bill as 1st baseman DH. Hanley can do that also. We will probably need pitching depth in the mold of hard throwing starters and relievers like DD covets. Maybe some outfield depth also.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Dec 6, 2016 19:50:24 GMT -5
With Moreland on board, who needs Travis Shaw? The way I see it, DD leverages Shaw's affordable, team controlled contract in a trade with a small market club that values those sorts of things, into something we have more urgent need for on the roster, and then replaces him with a 1-year deal to Moreland the same day? Count me in. That signing makes the Thornburg cost look even lighter.
Regarding Sale, can someone explain the financial implications? I hate to give up Moncada as much as anyone, but if this deal allows them to fall under the threshold and then compete on the open market for someone like Manny Machado with less financial restraint in 2 years...... Well that changes things. Can anyone weigh in on this?
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Post by brianthetaoist on Dec 6, 2016 19:53:21 GMT -5
Analysis aside ... the 2017 Red Sox are a pretty cool team.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 6, 2016 20:26:16 GMT -5
Ooohhhhh yyyyaaaaa!!!!!
WE GOT SALE!!!!
now we need the trophy!
All is right with the world!
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Post by larrycook on Dec 6, 2016 20:48:46 GMT -5
I am officially renaming dombrowski.
He is now going to be called the D-Cobra! He is deadly accurate, strikes fast and takes down big game!
And did I mention.....WE GOT SALE!!!!
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Post by azblue on Dec 6, 2016 20:50:05 GMT -5
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Post by libertine on Dec 6, 2016 21:08:03 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership.
But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth?
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2016 21:30:12 GMT -5
Jon Lester 2 years ago
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Post by libertine on Dec 6, 2016 21:35:02 GMT -5
Lester was good but he was up and down from one year to the next (but always rock solid in the postseason). I was talking Clemens or Pedro type of dominance.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Dec 6, 2016 21:43:43 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership. But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth? I hate this ownership too. Same reason Sox are in the hole they are in financially is because of Warner and NESN. No wonder why Ben ran away from this toxic situation as fast as he could. Dombrowski took a sledge hammer to this system that is now the worst in the MLB if you count real prospects not named Benetendi. Espinoza was gut wrenching and Moncada is too much. Just traded the closest thing in the minors to the next Pedro and the Next ARod for quick fixes and 50-75 cents on the dollar.
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Post by libertine on Dec 6, 2016 21:59:39 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership. But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth? I hate this ownership too. Same reason Sox are in the hole they are in financially is because of Warner and NESN. No wonder why Ben ran away from this toxic situation as fast as he could. Dombrowski took a sledge hammer to this system that is now the worst in the MLB if you count real prospects not named Benetendi. Espinoza was gut wrenching and Moncada is too much. Just traded the closest thing in the minors to the next Pedro and the Next ARod for quick fixes and 50-75 cents on the dollar. I will never "hate" this ownership. They've brought us 3 world championships in our lifetime. They've ensured that if I die tomorrow I will die a happy man.
Do I agree with all the moves? Not always but the three championships has cut them considerable slack with me. As far as your take goes, I am completely not sold on Moncada being the next Bob Horner never mind A-Rod. Kopech is the one that hurts a bit for me. But to get the best SP in the league, and a young one at that, you need to give something up. But Kopech could be the next Clemens or Pedro or the next the next Steve Dalkowski. The jury is still very much out on him, his control and his attitude. But he has all the tools. But Sale is already at that level. He needs to continue his dominance, and even improve on it. Not that I am setting a very high bar for him, lol. We'll see if he can handle the pressure of pitching in Fenway like the Rocket and Pedro did (they actually thrived on the pressure). Plus there is no track record of a dominant lefty SP for the Red Sox since the end of the Dead Ball era.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 6, 2016 22:00:36 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership. But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth? I hate this ownership too. Same reason Sox are in the hole they are in financially is because of Warner and NESN. No wonder why Ben ran away from this toxic situation as fast as he could. Dombrowski took a sledge hammer to this system that is now the worst in the MLB if you count real prospects not named Benetendi. Espinoza was gut wrenching and Moncada is too much. Just traded the closest thing in the minors to the next Pedro and the Next ARod for quick fixes and 50-75 cents on the dollar. Okay but in all fairness we don't now have the worst farm system. The Angels still exist.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 6, 2016 22:00:58 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership. But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth? I hate this ownership too. Same reason Sox are in the hole they are in financially is because of Warner and NESN. No wonder why Ben ran away from this toxic situation as fast as he could. Dombrowski took a sledge hammer to this system that is now the worst in the MLB if you count real prospects not named Benetendi. Espinoza was gut wrenching and Moncada is too much. Just traded the closest thing in the minors to the next Pedro and the Next ARod for quick fixes and 50-75 cents on the dollar. While I am 100% behind the acquisition of sale, I can not help but think that Ben did an amazing job of building a top notch farm system. Sadly D-Cobra does not appear to have a clue how to do that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2016 22:01:15 GMT -5
Well if nothing else I guess this will generate excitement in the fan base, and probably lead to higher season ticket renewals, in this new post-Papi era. Which I am sure is a consideration for ownership. But I am all for getting arguably the best SP in the AL without having to give up any on the young talent already on the ML roster. Very excited to see Sale pitch in Fenway next season. When was the last time we had a dominant lefty starter? Babe Ruth? I hate this ownership too. Same reason Sox are in the hole they are in financially is because of Warner and NESN. No wonder why Ben ran away from this toxic situation as fast as he could. Dombrowski took a sledge hammer to this system that is now the worst in the MLB if you count real prospects not named Benetendi. Espinoza was gut wrenching and Moncada is too much. Just traded the closest thing in the minors to the next Pedro and the Next ARod for quick fixes and 50-75 cents on the dollar. Not sure how I feel about this trade, but calling those two the next Pedro and ARod is a little crazy. The chance they reach those levels are fairly low.
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Post by shaqtus on Dec 6, 2016 22:06:22 GMT -5
Lord, someone needs to get that guy to UC Medical Center for an emergency procedure to remove the stick from his ass. Diagnosis: overindulgent sportswriter with a severe case of need-a-hot-take-itis.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2016 22:24:13 GMT -5
Kungfuizzy, thank you for the entertainment you've brought me today. Never lose your passion bro.
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