SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
|
Post by ghostofrussgibson on Feb 7, 2017 21:11:08 GMT -5
Teams aren't necessarily stupid. I do think teams will overpay for a perceived value, especially when a front office/coach is on a short leash. Also, football teams may overpay their own players for, essentially, their past performance and loyalty... despite their age and declining skills. Baseball free agent signings are evidence that teams sometimes bid against themselves (ARod and many others).
Yes, the Pats have leverage. For now. With JimmyG, NE has plenty of variables in play. If NE keeps him and he becomes a free agent, can/would NE pay the going rate, especially if Brady is playing great and they have Brissett in their back pocket? Is Brissett a capable "next man up?" I have to wonder whether NE would pay the going rate for JG next year... while Brady is playing great. The cap is a real challenge.
All that said, I could see NE having a serious talk with JG. If his upcoming contract can be constructed so as to create a very low cap hit for a couple years (while Brady plays out the string), then it may make sense to keep him as the heir apparent. I suspect he'll be flooded with high dollar free agent offers if he hits the open market.
My guess is JG won't sign a new contract until he sees what's out there. If that's the case, all NE can get (if NE doesn't pay up) is a comp draft pick. But JG has leverage in that he can refuse to sign an extension if NE tries to deal him this year.
So NE doesn't have tons of leverage... and that leverage diminishes as time goes by. Rather than just draft pics, maybe NE trades for a pick and a player to fill a need.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 21:15:02 GMT -5
Brady already structured his deal to a lower number last time he restructured. He isn't going to take a lower number. Haha you really don't get how the cap works. Your cap number and what you make is not the same thing. Brady can take a signing bonus up front, lowering his cap number. He's not going to take a paycut, guaranteed money is spread out over the years of contract and added to base salary. So they lower his base salary, but guarantee the money. He gets paid the same, but has a lower cap number. They can also add on a few years if need be. Brady restructures almost every year it seems to help team. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 7, 2017 21:18:46 GMT -5
Brady already structured his deal to a lower number last time he restructured. He isn't going to take a lower number. Haha you really don't get how the cap works. Your cap number and what you make is not the same thing. Brady can take a signing bonus up front, lowering his cap number. He's not going to take a paycut, guaranteed money is spread out over the years of contract and added to base salary. So they lower his base salary, but guarantee the money. He gets paid the same, but has a lower cap number. They can also add on a few years if need be. Brady restructures almost every year it seems to help team. You're literally laughing and basing your opinions off nothing. Brady is looking for his last deal, he's looking for his last big pay day. We will see exactly who's right about his next deal either this off-season or next. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 21:31:39 GMT -5
Haha you really don't get how the cap works. Your cap number and what you make is not the same thing. Brady can take a signing bonus up front, lowering his cap number. He's not going to take a paycut, guaranteed money is spread out over the years of contract and added to base salary. So they lower his base salary, but guarantee the money. He gets paid the same, but has a lower cap number. They can also add on a few years if need be. Brady restructures almost every year it seems to help team. You're literally laughing and basing your opinions off nothing. Brady is looking for his last deal, he's looking for his last big pay day. We will see exactly who's right about his next deal either this off-season or next. Not at all, I'm basing it off what Brady has done for his whole career. He's signed for 3 more years and reports have been saying he wants to play another 3 years. Only way he signs new deal is to add on years to lower his cap number, maybe give him a small raise. Brady is not looking for one last big payday. You seem to know nothing about Brady with comments like that. What he wants is to win at this point. He's signed below market deals for almost his whole career. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 7, 2017 21:42:20 GMT -5
To me the only two locks to return is Hightower on a franchise tag and Butler. Hightower could sit out a number of games if the Patriots use leverage against him to sign a lesser long term deal.
Everyone else is gone outside of maybe Brown.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 7, 2017 21:47:21 GMT -5
You're literally laughing and basing your opinions off nothing. Brady is looking for his last deal, he's looking for his last big pay day. We will see exactly who's right about his next deal either this off-season or next. Not at all, I'm basing it off what Brady has done for his whole career. He's signed for 3 more years and reports have been saying he wants to play another 3 years. Only way he signs new deal is to add on years to lower his cap number, maybe give him a small raise. Brady is not looking for one last big payday. You seem to know nothing about Brady with comments like that. What he wants is to win at this point. He's signed below market deals for almost his whole career. How do you know that he isn't going to want more money? Are you his agent? What if Brady is sick of doing the Patriots favors with paycuts? I also noticed went from saying "he's going to take a lower cap hit to maybe he takes a small raise." Way to go back and forth on your own opinion. Also I've seen reports that Brady wants to play 5 more years or whenever he can't play no more. That's what his dad said. Not just 3 like you think. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 22:14:21 GMT -5
To me the only two locks to return is Hightower on a franchise tag and Butler. Hightower could sit out a number of games if the Patriots use leverage against him to sign a lesser long term deal. Everyone else is gone outside of maybe Brown. What does "Everyone else is gone outside of maybe Brown." mean? Brown isn't a free agent. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2017 22:31:36 GMT -5
Not at all, I'm basing it off what Brady has done for his whole career. He's signed for 3 more years and reports have been saying he wants to play another 3 years. Only way he signs new deal is to add on years to lower his cap number, maybe give him a small raise. Brady is not looking for one last big payday. You seem to know nothing about Brady with comments like that. What he wants is to win at this point. He's signed below market deals for almost his whole career. How do you know that he isn't going to want more money? Are you his agent? What if Brady is sick of doing the Patriots favors with paycuts? I also noticed went from saying "he's going to take a lower cap hit to maybe he takes a small raise." Way to go back and forth on your own opinion. Also I've seen reports that Brady wants to play 5 more years or whenever he can't play no more. That's what his dad said. Not just 3 like you think. How do you know he wants one last big payday? Brady has always signed team friendly deals, because he cares more about winning than being the highest paid QB. Sure that could change, but it's just not likely. I really can't believe you think Brady will demand a huge new contract because he wants one last big payday when he's signed through his age 42 season. Go read comments Brady has made about taking team friendly deals. It's all about winning for him. Again you don't get cap rules. Brady can add on a few years onto current deal and lower his cap number for the next 3 years. With the cap going way up, Pat's give him a small raise, but still lower his cap number. That's not Brady wanting one last big payday, it's just Pat's keeping his salary as a certain % of cap. The playing 5 more years is from a while back. In the last few days a report said he wants to play at least 3 more years. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 8, 2017 6:12:54 GMT -5
To me the only two locks to return is Hightower on a franchise tag and Butler. Hightower could sit out a number of games if the Patriots use leverage against him to sign a lesser long term deal. Everyone else is gone outside of maybe Brown. What does "Everyone else is gone outside of maybe Brown." mean? Brown isn't a free agent. Sorry wrong interior defensive lineman. I meant Alan Branch. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 8, 2017 6:34:56 GMT -5
How do you know that he isn't going to want more money? Are you his agent? What if Brady is sick of doing the Patriots favors with paycuts? I also noticed went from saying "he's going to take a lower cap hit to maybe he takes a small raise." Way to go back and forth on your own opinion. Also I've seen reports that Brady wants to play 5 more years or whenever he can't play no more. That's what his dad said. Not just 3 like you think. How do you know he wants one last big payday? Brady has always signed team friendly deals, because he cares more about winning than being the highest paid QB. Sure that could change, but it's just not likely. I really can't believe you think Brady will demand a huge new contract because he wants one last big payday when he's signed through his age 42 season. Go read comments Brady has made about taking team friendly deals. It's all about winning for him. Again you don't get cap rules. Brady can add on a few years onto current deal and lower his cap number for the next 3 years. With the cap going way up, Pat's give him a small raise, but still lower his cap number. That's not Brady wanting one last big payday, it's just Pat's keeping his salary as a certain % of cap. The playing 5 more years is from a while back. In the last few days a report said he wants to play at least 3 more years. First of all, Brady is only signed through the next two years. You mentioned in the previous post that he's signed for 3 years, which is incorrect. He's going to want to get paid a way larger number than the 14 million he played for last year also. He's going to be paid 22 million this year if he doesn't restructure, so yes he will take a "cut for more years" but it will also be increasing his cap number either way from the previous years because I don't see him coming way down from his 22 million dollar number. I see him taking a 3-4 million dollar cut for the next 2 years in order to add 2 or 3 more years. I told you either way his cap number is going up and you keep laughing and then telling me that "I don't understand the cap." You make some excuse of saying "he'll take 8 million less because of a larger sign on bonus, he wants to be paid the same amount of money the rest of his career." You're living in fantasy land. Tom Brady will work with the Patriots, he's not going to give them the kind of generosity he's been giving them the past few years. He's going to want more money heading into retirement and he's deserved it and the Patriots will probably give it to him. Any regular human being would want that as their working days are coming to a end. Tom Brady always wants to win when he enters a football game, and that isn't going to change if he takes more or less money. This past extension was worked so he could be getting paid around this time in his career. The five more years thing is from the horses father himself and the story is only 5 months old- sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-dad-patriots-qb-could-play-wants-to-play-until-hes-44-or-45-162020255.html;_ylt=A0LEVj1b_ppY57AAZIE3nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNW1iMWN2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw-- |
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Feb 8, 2017 7:03:33 GMT -5
Can you present any evidence that Brady wants "one last payday"? A quote, a sourced article, anything? There is plenty of evidence that he is not especially concerned about maximizing his salary-- the last few contracts he's signed, his public quotes on the subject, the overwhelming opinion of the media, the fact that he's made significant amounts of money in his career between salary and endorsements (and is married to one of the wealthiest women in the world), etc.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
|
Post by wcp3 on Feb 8, 2017 7:06:24 GMT -5
Your claim that Brady wants some giant payday before retirement is based on nothing. I'm sure he won't be taking less money anytime soon, but he seems to be driven more by rings than anything else at this point.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 8, 2017 7:40:48 GMT -5
Brady had taken less money than he could have commanded his entire career. While his restructures and "pay cuts" for cap relief have actually netted him more money, he's never tried to be the highest paid quarterback and he's not about to do that in his 40s... it's just ridiculous to assume otherwise. I guarantee you the Pats and him already know what contract they will be signing assuming he makes it thru next season healthy and highly effective. It will be team friendly. He will get paid, but there is a much higher probability that he takes a Dirk type insanely team friendly extension than he tries to cash in for as much as he can get.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 8, 2017 7:43:49 GMT -5
Edelman will need a new deal next year but he won't command big money. It will be a healthy contract and a raise from where he is now, but he's not going anywhere if Brady is sticking around. Edelman loves Brady so much there is next to no chance that he leaves him. Plus, guys like him just don't command huge salaries especially at his age.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 8, 2017 7:53:01 GMT -5
They certainly are not afraid to rework their team, evidence backs that up big time, BUT, as good as this defense was this year, its overall talent level is dangerously thin for a top unit. They got rid of so much top end talent the last year plus that one has to think they plan to keep most of this band together. I'm thinking that most of the guys are back.
These are my predictions (no contract predictions).
Resigned:
Butler (restricted)
Hightower
Ryan
Harmon
Branch
Leave via free agency:
Sheard
Mingo
Back on another low money deal of retired:
Long
I know history says they will reshuffle and not keep this high a percentage of their guys, but I think they made those decisions over he last year plus with the guys they cut and/or traded away. Plus, they've never had this much cap space and they have it in preparation for this. It's not a coincidence.
Of course all bets are truly off with this team and it will be easy to question Belichick if it's a total overhaul but it will be hard to criticize him for it, if you know what I mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Feb 8, 2017 13:06:28 GMT -5
You don't need 2 teams to create a bidding war. You need only 1 and the illusion there is another. How does 1 team who wants him KNOW that there is not another team out there that does too? They don't. Before any negotiation you need to set your limit and not excede it, then evaluate your own evaluation of you routinely are out in LF. You do need two teams to create a bidding war. You really think teams are stupid? They are going to know if another team at least has interest in Jimmy. You might be able to bend the truth about there level of interest or what they are ultimately willing to surrender, but you need that second team thats willing to trade for him. Now I agree they need to set a minimum level of compensation we need to get to trade Jimmy. We do have leverage, we don't have to trade him. He makes next to nothing and has another year on deal. If we don't get what we want, we just keep him because Brady is going to be 40 next year. I don't think it's going to be hard to get a couple teams interested. A bunch of teams need QBs. Teams love players from Super Bowl winning teams. Jimmy has spent 3 years being coached by the best coach ever and learning from the best QB ever. He's still young, going to cost next to nothing next year and is 100% ready to play now. Say you are Team X, how do you know if Team Y will not swoop in or not? You don't. If you don't set parameters then a bidding war can happen. Smart people all the time bid against themselves because they did not set a parameter and stick to it. I agree with you that he's likely to get a first and more. Edit: Attempt to approach english.(Added say and are for the first and third word to form an actual thought.) |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 8, 2017 14:07:33 GMT -5
How do you know he wants one last big payday? Brady has always signed team friendly deals, because he cares more about winning than being the highest paid QB. Sure that could change, but it's just not likely. I really can't believe you think Brady will demand a huge new contract because he wants one last big payday when he's signed through his age 42 season. Go read comments Brady has made about taking team friendly deals. It's all about winning for him. Again you don't get cap rules. Brady can add on a few years onto current deal and lower his cap number for the next 3 years. With the cap going way up, Pat's give him a small raise, but still lower his cap number. That's not Brady wanting one last big payday, it's just Pat's keeping his salary as a certain % of cap. The playing 5 more years is from a while back. In the last few days a report said he wants to play at least 3 more years. First of all, Brady is only signed through the next two years. You mentioned in the previous post that he's signed for 3 years, which is incorrect. He's going to want to get paid a way larger number than the 14 million he played for last year also. He's going to be paid 22 million this year if he doesn't restructure, so yes he will take a "cut for more years" but it will also be increasing his cap number either way from the previous years because I don't see him coming way down from his 22 million dollar number. I see him taking a 3-4 million dollar cut for the next 2 years in order to add 2 or 3 more years. I told you either way his cap number is going up and you keep laughing and then telling me that "I don't understand the cap." You make some excuse of saying "he'll take 8 million less because of a larger sign on bonus, he wants to be paid the same amount of money the rest of his career." You're living in fantasy land. Tom Brady will work with the Patriots, he's not going to give them the kind of generosity he's been giving them the past few years. He's going to want more money heading into retirement and he's deserved it and the Patriots will probably give it to him. Any regular human being would want that as their working days are coming to a end. Tom Brady always wants to win when he enters a football game, and that isn't going to change if he takes more or less money. This past extension was worked so he could be getting paid around this time in his career. The five more years thing is from the horses father himself and the story is only 5 months old- sports.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-dad-patriots-qb-could-play-wants-to-play-until-hes-44-or-45-162020255.html;_ylt=A0LEVj1b_ppY57AAZIE3nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNW1iMWN2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--Tom Brady is signed through 2019, his age 42 season. That's 3 more years. A quick Yahoo search easily shows that. The two links above both show his contract information. I also gave you a link to a yahoo article showing the 3-5 years, as there have been conflicting reports. His wife was begging him to retire after our last game. The yahoo article is a few days old. Tom Brady is not going to want more money going into retirement if it means the Patriots have to field a less talented team. His net worth is 180 million , his wife is worth 360 million. They have more money then they could ever spend. www.celebritynetworth.com/couples/tom-brady-gi-net-worth/ |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 8, 2017 14:25:37 GMT -5
You do need two teams to create a bidding war. You really think teams are stupid? They are going to know if another team at least has interest in Jimmy. You might be able to bend the truth about there level of interest or what they are ultimately willing to surrender, but you need that second team thats willing to trade for him. Now I agree they need to set a minimum level of compensation we need to get to trade Jimmy. We do have leverage, we don't have to trade him. He makes next to nothing and has another year on deal. If we don't get what we want, we just keep him because Brady is going to be 40 next year. I don't think it's going to be hard to get a couple teams interested. A bunch of teams need QBs. Teams love players from Super Bowl winning teams. Jimmy has spent 3 years being coached by the best coach ever and learning from the best QB ever. He's still young, going to cost next to nothing next year and is 100% ready to play now. You Team X, how do you know if Team Y will not swoop in or not? You don't. If you don't set parameters then a bidding war can happen. Smart people all the time bid against themselves because they did not set a parameter and stick to it. I agree with you that he's likely to get a first and more Bidding against yourself is not a bidding war though. It's just a team that really wants something and they don't care if they over pay to get it/keep it. Let's say Pats demand a 1st and 4th like the reports say. Without a second team it's going to be darn near impossible to get more. The Pats have to to set a value to tell teams, otherwise how can they make an offer and engage in trade talks? They can start high, but you can't go to high or a team might just move on to its next QB target. Now in a bidding war, let's say the Bears and the Browns are involved. That's how you could really get a great offer. Bears offer 2nd round pick for next two years and a 4th. Brown's offer two seconds this year's and a 4th. Bears add in two 3rd rounders for next two years. Cleveland offer it's mid first round pick and it's low second, trade accepted, Pat's get a great deal. Not saying this happens or we get that much, but a bidding war between two or more teams is almost always going to get you more. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 8, 2017 15:23:00 GMT -5
Can you present any evidence that Brady wants "one last payday"? A quote, a sourced article, anything? There is plenty of evidence that he is not especially concerned about maximizing his salary-- the last few contracts he's signed, his public quotes on the subject, the overwhelming opinion of the media, the fact that he's made significant amounts of money in his career between salary and endorsements (and is married to one of the wealthiest women in the world), etc. It's not hard to figure out that Brady wants to be paid more than the 14 million than he's been paid the past two years. It doesn't really matter how much money he's made, this is his last chance to get significant money. I'm sure he'll restructure but not for 14 million all over again. He's going to be worth more than the 14 million dollar cap hit which was my point all along. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 8, 2017 15:29:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 8, 2017 16:42:08 GMT -5
That site shows he under contract for 3 more years, the 2017, 2018 and 2019 seasons. They do have his age wrong, so maybe that confused you. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Feb 8, 2017 17:19:41 GMT -5
Haha you really don't get how the cap works. Your cap number and what you make is not the same thing. Brady can take a signing bonus up front, lowering his cap number. He's not going to take a paycut, guaranteed money is spread out over the years of contract and added to base salary. So they lower his base salary, but guarantee the money. He gets paid the same, but has a lower cap number. They can also add on a few years if need be. Brady restructures almost every year it seems to help team. You're literally laughing and basing your opinions off nothing. Brady is looking for his last deal, he's looking for his last big pay day. We will see exactly who's right about his next deal either this off-season or next. Pedro you just don't get Tom Brady. He doesn't care about the money in the least bit. If anything he feels more pressure towards all the other QB's and players in the league that he hurts by taking less. The players union would be all over him and probably already is for taking a below market contract. He and Gisele have a net worth north of 500 million, money isn't even on his mind. He is all about winning for as long as he can and playing for less helps the team by 10-15 million a year. Sorry I responded too quickly before posting this, should have read on as enough people have already stated all this. Sorry Pedro didn't mean to pile on. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Feb 8, 2017 18:08:04 GMT -5
My opinion on how much the Pats can get for Jimmy G is changing with what all the prognosticators are putting out there since the Super Bowl. I know it's just talk from non Gm's but it matters. By putting thus stuff out there it drives the competition a little more and it gives a GM thinking about it the ammunition and courage to do it. That along with the numbers he put up his Sr year in college, over 5,000 yards and 53 tds against 9 ints, he is only 25. The 2 years learning behind Brady and being on 2 SB teams is great experience, his contract is practically nothing for a year. Heck I am beginning to believe a top 5 could happen. And the rich get richer, thanks Trent!! www.knbr.com/2017/02/07/dilfer-trade-the-farm-for-jimmy-garoppolo-if-you-have-to/ |
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Feb 8, 2017 18:19:56 GMT -5
You Team X, how do you know if Team Y will not swoop in or not? You don't. If you don't set parameters then a bidding war can happen. Smart people all the time bid against themselves because they did not set a parameter and stick to it. I agree with you that he's likely to get a first and more Bidding against yourself is not a bidding war though. It's just a team that really wants something and they don't care if they over pay to get it/keep it. Let's say Pats demand a 1st and 4th like the reports say. Without a second team it's going to be darn near impossible to get more. The Pats have to to set a value to tell teams, otherwise how can they make an offer and engage in trade talks? They can start high, but you can't go to high or a team might just move on to its next QB target. Now in a bidding war, let's say the Bears and the Browns are involved. That's how you could really get a great offer. Bears offer 2nd round pick for next two years and a 4th. Brown's offer two seconds this year's and a 4th. Bears add in two 3rd rounders for next two years. Cleveland offer it's mid first round pick and it's low second, trade accepted, Pat's get a great deal. Not saying this happens or we get that much, but a bidding war between two or more teams is almost always going to get you more. Good points. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Feb 9, 2017 13:54:34 GMT -5
I get the point on the bidding war and from a technical stand point that is true. If you have two teams willing to give up the farm for him, then the price will go up. That being said, to get a big return the Patriots only need one team who really wants him plus their own willingness to keep him. If they don't want a second round pick then the other team(s) need to give up a first plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it's just Cleveland or just Chicago.
The other thing to watch is if someone like Lovie Smith feels this is his chance to save his job.
|
|
|
