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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 31, 2017 11:26:43 GMT -5
The comments about him not being able to stay healthy are concerning.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 31, 2017 11:30:14 GMT -5
Houston doesn't really scare me much. The Pats beat them twice last year, once with Brissett at QB. In the playoffs the Pats played one of their worst games of the year and still won. But that does go to show you how easy it is to lose a football game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 11:37:22 GMT -5
We need to get younger at RB and this draft is loaded. Every RB we have outside of Foster is a free agent next year.
I would love to get Foreman from Texas, he is a beast.
I just don't understand the thinking that Blount wasn't a great short yardage RB. That's what he was great at, look at his TD. I just don't see how a guy that got 18 TD, with most of them coming near the goal line isn't a great short yardage RB. You want more power than speed in a short yardage back. He needs to be able to move pile to get a yard or two. The is exactly who Blunt is.
The thing with Blunt is he's getting older and he wore down last year. He wasn't the same player at the end of the year as he was in the beginning of the year. I think him and Burkhead would be a nice pair. Thing is if you do that you don't have any room for young RB and we need one, heck we should really draft two RBs this year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 11:48:13 GMT -5
Houston could be awesome next year if they get a good Vet QB. That defense with a healthy Watt could be like Denver's 2015 D. The only thing that killed them last year was QB. Players like Romo, Kap and even Cutler would be massive upgrades for them and that's saying something. If they were smart they would bring in two players just in case of injury. Then draft another QB and let them better it out in training camp.
The reason we played a horrible game against them in Playoffs is that D and they didn't even have Watt. A great D that can get after Brady is always going to be are biggest worry. Just like 2015 Denver and those Giant teams in Superbowl.
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Post by digit on Mar 31, 2017 13:50:39 GMT -5
Houston doesn't really scare me much. The Pats beat them twice last year, once with Brissett at QB. In the playoffs the Pats played one of their worst games of the year and still won. But that does go to show you how easy it is to lose a football game. I dunno - the DL up the middle was what killed the Patriots when Houston shifted those really big guys up the middle. Most teams don't have guys like that, but I'd be concerned about it. In cases like that, it feels like, Thurney and Andrews need to get some help, and I think having Burkhead would -really- help with this as it'd give the Patriots more unpredictability, make it harder for defenses to send those guys up the middle. I wish we had replaced Develin with Kyle Juszczyk, make it even more unpredictable, but that contract he got was a wee bit too much. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 31, 2017 14:17:14 GMT -5
Foreman is a beast but he fumbled 6 times last year, BB might not feel the same way.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 14:36:16 GMT -5
If you think 18 TDs makes him a great short yardage back all the power to you. I've watched him for 3 + years and Blount isn't a great short yardage guy. He has trouble driving a defender at the line of scrimmage back on a consistent basis bc he is so slow to the line. It's not a speed vs power thing but speed and acceleration does translate into power. I don't care how strong you are when u run high and with little acceleration into a lineman ur going to go backwards. Blount had a lot of zero and negative runs which shouldn't happen if you are a great short yardage guy. It's almost as if when he's not near the goal line he will very rarely if ever just smash the line and take a couple yards even on third and 1.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 14:37:57 GMT -5
He was better last year than in years past but his size misleads people to believe he's been something he's not... the thing he's great at is a finished when we have a lead. He beats up on tired defenses and sucks the life out of a team. Which is valuable
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 15:47:16 GMT -5
You're looking at one thing and thinking it means something else. Blount is a great short yardage back. That's why he gets a ton of TDs. He doesn't get many negative yards in short yardage situations. When he just smashes the line he's great. The negative runs you're talking about are mostly not short yardage situations. They are regular running plays were he tries to dance around and make a big run. His lack of speed sure does hurt him when he tries to dance around. He just doesn't do that in short yardage situations.
You really think Bill always gives the ball to Blunt near the goal line because he thinks he's not a good short yardage back? Come on.
I think we can use an upgrade, but it nothing to do with Blount not being a great short yardage RB.
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Post by digit on Mar 31, 2017 16:28:43 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Mar 31, 2017 16:40:18 GMT -5
James Develin is on the team. So there's that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 16:41:21 GMT -5
It couldn't have anything to do with our line right? In 2015 they were horrible and in 2016 they were great. A player like Mason went from being bad to one of the best guards in the league last year. They also added Thunley and Cannon started this year and they both played great.
Sure Develin might have factored in, but the line was the biggest difference. Kinda hard to run when the line is getting pushed backwards every play like in 2015.
Edit: When Blunt went down we went from an ok running team, to not being able to run at all. You remember that? It killed us in playoffs.
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Post by digit on Mar 31, 2017 16:44:15 GMT -5
Yep. Develin's on the team. And he's damned good. I may think Kyle Juszczyk is better, but the Patriots' strength is finding complementary players that work better together, anyway.
Production per dollar, Develin's more than earned his pay for a thankless job.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 31, 2017 16:46:50 GMT -5
So his presence on the team, coupled with the improvement from the O-line should point us to LG being more like 2016 than 2015 (all else equal).
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Post by digit on Mar 31, 2017 17:01:34 GMT -5
So basically, a better OL and Develin (and I suppose, Sarnecchia, since he's the big change in blocking schemes here) is why Blount went from among the least effective to better.
Works for me.
We still have the better OL, Develin, and Sarnecchia. Since Blount didn't do all well for most of his career without these guys, I think, I'm willing to err on the side of Blount being good, but not great.
And I think the biggest problem with the playoff running attack, all in all, was that it just didn't -function- at all even with Blount in there, which is why they fired the OL coach, and why they left Blount out there for most of the free agent period before resigning him for a 1 year contract for what, 2 million?
I mean, it should follow that if all the RBs improved and not just Blount, then any improvement in Blount's 'short yardage' skills really is attributable to the improved blocking, than to his skills, and calling him 'great' is overstating it. He wasn't all that 'great' at it for most of his career. Suddenly, last year, with improved blocking and Develin leading the way, he's 'great'?
I'd admittedly like to see what Burkhead could do with what Blount was given. I don't expect 18 TDs, but I'd sure like to see if the '3.03 average yards after contact' holds up with more carries.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 17:02:16 GMT -5
Like I said he was better last year but even before 2015 he had this reputation as a short yardage back and the production didn't match the reputation. If you want to call a 30 year old running back great at something that he did for one year then that's cool. There's a reason no one is paying him crap for the 3rd year in a row.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 31, 2017 17:06:43 GMT -5
I'm not saying he's great. Just saying that we shouldn't ignore what he does behind a good OL and good FB.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 17:13:58 GMT -5
It's fine I just think he's overrated - the 18 TDs is a hugely inflated stat that makes him look better than he is. It's not a big deal I'm glad they brought in Burkhead and I agree with UMass they need to bring in a back from the draft so I hope Blount isn't returning.
I know it wont happen but I hope White signs an extension. I thought the talk before last year that he may get cut was laughable (not saying anyone here said that), but it was tossed around in the media. He's the new Kevin Faulk and my hope is that he wants to be here badly enough to take the contract the Pats would pay.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 19:38:00 GMT -5
Does anyone have data from 2014 and back? Unless your Barry Sanders how your line plays effects your play. While our line was good last year, it's not like we were Dallas and had best line in Football. There's a reason why players gain reputations. Blount is 75th all time in TDs and 51st in yards per carry all time. For the amount of playing time he's had, those are great numbers. You don't get that many TD without being a good short yardage RB. He certainly did score most of those on long gains.
Again I think Blount is a great short yardage back, not a great RB in general.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 19:48:25 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2017 20:52:07 GMT -5
I need to see the raw data, do you know where I can find that? I did a quick search and only found places I had to pay to access it.
Because Woodhead is not a good short yardage back. That's such a misleading stat. Sure spread the whole field out, then do a delayed hand off and he picks up a crap load of first downs. He did that for us all the time. That's not the same as the defense going goal line formation and trying to score.
I wanna look at the amount of defenders in the box on Blunts short yardage runs compared to other players and the formations. I have a feeling that's the difference. He's not a pass catcher, so teams overload the box because they know the run is coming. So the numbers look a lot worse than they truly are.
I don't care what any numbers say, I've seen more than enough of Blount and Woodhead to know against a stacked front line, Blount is by far the better choice.
If you wanted to hold Blount's lack of pass catching ability against him, because it allows teams to stack box, I can agree with that.
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Post by jmei on Mar 31, 2017 21:06:59 GMT -5
I'm with rjp. I'm fairly confident that the scouting consensus is that Blount is a middling short-yardage back at best. He's an upright runner who doesn't do a good job of "getting skinny" and hitting smaller creases. The Patriots have a ton of goal to go opportunities and he converts at a good enough clip, but it's certainly not a strength of his.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2017 21:07:22 GMT -5
I don't but it's really not important to me, we can agree to disagree I've never liked Blount's running style in short yardage situation. You do that fine - people can disagree. It's not completely black and white.
Situations sure matter but so does conversion rates. Just for illustration purposes, If a team can stack a box against a guy and plug every gap because of him not being a threat to burn you other ways that's a knock against him... conversely a smaller guy can be good in short yardage by reading things quickly and being able to slide into a small area quickly... when you only need a yard it doesn't matter how you get it. You can be big or small it doesn't matter - only thing that matters is getting that yard within your offense.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 1, 2017 5:22:45 GMT -5
If you watch any highlights of the new WR Cooks it is obvious that he needs to be doubled over the top or risk being beat deep, he simply runs right by guys if they don't muscle him at the line. Heck there are plenty of plays he runs right by double coverage. Add Gronk to that and you give the D a lot to try and defend. The play action pass will be something teams will have a very hard time game planning for against the Pats. Which also leads to a more productive running game as the safeties will have to honor the speed of Cooks over the top. Whomever is running the ball for the Pats this year should have a hell of a season.
Blount did an adequate job last season, can't say I like or dislike him but it shouldn't be difficult to replace his production. Hopefully they get lucky and find one of those late rd guys who comes in and impresses from day 1. For some reason or another I am not sold on Burkhead yet, one meaningless game at the end of the season isn't much to hang your hat on.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 1, 2017 9:22:45 GMT -5
I'm interested to see how Cooks is in this offense... he's a small down field target but his speed makes his ball placement radius bigger. He's got incredible hands so he can win contested balls too but he's certainly not a downfield jump ball type target.
I think I read he's not really a YAC guy in the Edelman sense but I bet McDaniels designs some rub routes that spring him and will turn some quick slants into huge plays.
I'm just imagining Burkhead in the back field as a running and receiving threat who's also a good pass protector with Gronk and Allen for the two tight ends then Cooks and Edelman as the WR... go ahead and go light and we will run it down your throats then try to get heavy and we will spread you out and destroy you.
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