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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2017 9:31:28 GMT -5
Grissom was a 5th round prospect picked at the very end of the 3rd rd. That's not a major overdraft. His profile also screamed Patriots so the love of him made a ton of sense. In the fourth they selected Flowers, Jackson and Mason. They didnt pick again until the end of the 5tg round. There is zero reason for them to be comfortable that they could take Grissom in the 5th rd. In one sentence you say you don't have a problem with them taking a player a few rounds early to make sure you get them and then you rip them taking Grissom basically a round early per the draft mags. He was a third round Comp pick. If you want to pick one round he was projected to go it was the 6th. He was picked top 100 and was rated around 215. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 27, 2017 9:39:40 GMT -5
They wanted Morse, seen as a 3rd round guy, went 2nd round. That type of thing happens all the time, a player jumping up a round. |
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Post by digit on Apr 27, 2017 10:16:28 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2017 10:27:44 GMT -5
Grissom was a 5th round prospect picked at the very end of the 3rd rd. That's not a major overdraft. His profile also screamed Patriots so the love of him made a ton of sense. In the fourth they selected Flowers, Jackson and Mason. They didnt pick again until the end of the 5tg round. There is zero reason for them to be comfortable that they could take Grissom in the 5th rd. In one sentence you say you don't have a problem with them taking a player a few rounds early to make sure you get them and then you rip them taking Grissom basically a round early per the draft mags. He was a third round Comp pick. If you want to pick one round he was projected to go it was the 6th. He was picked top 100 and was rated around 215. Yea if you want to use a median average to support your argument sure. But like you said there is a range and he was projected in the 5th and he went a round before that. You can't use the middle of the range when projecting a guy's availability if you are the team that actually wants to get the player. I'm not saying he wasn't picked ahead of his range but this isn't some gross overdraft ahead of his projection. Grissoms draft grade was 5.29 Flowers 5.55 Jackson 5.72 Mason 5.3 Those are all pretty close and if you look at the draft grades or almost all the players between rounds 3 and 5 they are mostly in that range. Ergo once you get to that stage it's a crapshoot and you take who you want most. The actual number ranking difference just means there are a lot of similarly rated prospects. |
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Post by digit on Apr 27, 2017 11:41:55 GMT -5
Yea if you want to use a median average to support your argument sure. But like you said there is a range and he was projected in the 5th and he went a round before that. You can't use the middle of the range when projecting a guy's availability if you are the team that actually wants to get the player. Lombardi actually referenced that in his discussion of how the Patriots draft: |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2017 19:24:12 GMT -5
The Bears... lol
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 27, 2017 20:38:38 GMT -5
8 of 12 on offense so far... all
Skill positions - crazy
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 27, 2017 20:48:17 GMT -5
8 of 12 on offense so far... all Skill positions - crazy 3 Qb's in a bad draft for Qb's. Brown's traded down from their number 12 pick. Makes you think that pick was ALWAYS there for New England for Jimmy G. and the Patriots hold true to the rumors that Jimmy G. was never available. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 27, 2017 23:21:21 GMT -5
The Patriots hold steady and stay out of the first round in day one of the draft. Pretty much expected but we will see if they trade up in the second round in day 2. It'll be a more interesting day 2 for sure.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 7:17:22 GMT -5
40 picks until they are on the clock without any trade ups or down. My guess is they sit tight - not a lot of draft capital to move around. Would not surprise me at all if they get to their pick and don't love anyone and trade down 10-15 spots to pick up AJ extra 5 or 6.
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Post by digit on Apr 28, 2017 8:25:02 GMT -5
Rather surprised the Browns didn't take a QB, but then again, the QBs in this draft seem like 'solid' rather than 'franchise', and they can take their swing at it next year when there are better. Build a team around the QB first here is probably a good idea.
Any thoughts on the 'Sherman wants to be a Patriot' rumors?
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 8:58:22 GMT -5
Any thoughts on the 'Sherman wants to be a Patriot' rumors? Yea he's smart |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 8:58:38 GMT -5
I'm really hoping the Pats get Sydney Jones
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2017 9:08:45 GMT -5
I actually like this QB class a ton. They all need time to develop though, even Watson so I surprised teams went crazy trading for them. I still think the guy with the highest ceiling hasn't been drafted in Kizer from Notre Dame. Now I'm a die hard Notre Dame fan but he's good.
Cleveland has had a great draft. When they traded back into first round I thought it was Kizer but they made another great pick at TE. If I was them I would take a QB in this draft, but it's Smart to wait for one in this draft. They have so many other needs.
I fully expect the Patriots to trade down with one of there 3rd rounders to get more picks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 9:12:07 GMT -5
I don't get the Kizer love. Every time I watched him at ND he sucked.
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Post by costpet on Apr 28, 2017 9:16:44 GMT -5
I think Cleveland is building it's team for the future. Get everything set and then grab Jimmy G. next year when he's a free agent. Of course, if Brady falls off a bit, they might franchise Jimmy. I like the Pats hanging on to Jimmy, just in case, and hanging on to Butler to give them a solid defense. Outside of injuries, who can beat them? They feel like the MFY back in the 50's.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 9:22:15 GMT -5
I think Cleveland is building it's team for the future. Get everything set and then grab Jimmy G. next year when he's a free agent. Of course, if Brady falls off a bit, they might franchise Jimmy. I like the Pats hanging on to Jimmy, just in case, and hanging on to Butler to give them a solid defense. Outside of injuries, who can beat them? They feel like the MFY back in the 50's. Injuries... this team is even pretty well set up to handle injuries. Who are the players they can least afford to lose at this point? Brady maybe isn't even on the list. I'd have to think this thru better but spitballing: Solder/Cannon, losing one of them would be a huge blow. Only thing that can stop this offense is a shaky offensive line. Team proved last year it can lose Gronk. The running back core is deep. And if you lose Cooks or Edelman you can handle it. Hightower: can deal for a few games but he's a necessity for the post season. Flowers: can deal with the other lineman but he'd hurt. McCourty- I feel like he makes the secondary work. Anyone else you can make a strong argument you have a capable back up. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2017 9:27:44 GMT -5
I don't get the Kizer love. Every time I watched him at ND he sucked. Watch the tape from 2015 he was seen as a possible #1 pick. He loses his LT and top two WR. Right before season he loses his top returning catcher in TE Jones. His pass catchers had like 40 catches in career total. Then in first game against Texas the guy with 35 of those catches gets knocked out and misses like 4 games. He was throwing to true freshman and sophomore with almost no playing time all year. At the same time he kept Notre Dame in almost every game. It's all about context with him and this past season. He can make all the throws, can move around in the pocket and is a good runner. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2017 9:41:44 GMT -5
I'm really hoping the Pats get Sydney Jones I certainly won't complain it would be great value, but they better get a good DE. There will be a bunch of them there in 3rd round. |
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Post by digit on Apr 28, 2017 9:42:16 GMT -5
Who are the players they can least afford to lose at this point? Brady maybe isn't even on the list. I'd have to think this thru better but spitballing: Solder/Cannon, losing one of them would be a huge blow. Only thing that can stop this offense is a shaky offensive line. Team proved last year it can lose Gronk. The running back core is deep. And if you lose Cooks or Edelman you can handle it. Hightower: can deal for a few games but he's a necessity for the post season. Flowers: can deal with the other lineman but he'd hurt. McCourty- I feel like he makes the secondary work. Anyone else you can make a strong argument you have a capable back up. Those are also the positions the Patriots are pretty well positioned to pick up in the draft today, so I think we should come out of the draft with at least some solid 'development' talent who can handle backup duty. Still want Sidney Jones and Jake Butt, though. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2017 9:46:31 GMT -5
McCourty is like the QB of the D, but at the same time they have Harmon who they just gave starter money to. So we shouldn't be lost without him. It would be a downgrade, but not like losing Hightower or Flowers. Right now we have no one to replace them. That's why we need a DE and LB in this draft. I think we need another SS, not FS.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 28, 2017 9:53:58 GMT -5
I don't get the Kizer love. Every time I watched him at ND he sucked. Watch the tape from 2015 he was seen as a possible #1 pick. He loses his LT and top two WR. Right before season he loses his top returning catcher in TE Jones. His pass catchers had like 40 catches in career total. Then in first game against Texas the guy with 35 of those catches gets knocked out and misses like 4 games. He was throwing to true freshman and sophomore with almost no playing time all year. At the same time he kept Notre Dame in almost every game. It's all about context with him and this past season. He can make all the throws, can move around in the pocket and is a good runner. I'll take your word for it but the games I watched him I was always amazed people considered him a first round pick. Of course Watson doesn't impress me either so what do I know? I don't see a great QB with either. Mahomes is the guy I like but i don't know about him mentally |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 28, 2017 10:13:41 GMT -5
Watch the tape from 2015 he was seen as a possible #1 pick. He loses his LT and top two WR. Right before season he loses his top returning catcher in TE Jones. His pass catchers had like 40 catches in career total. Then in first game against Texas the guy with 35 of those catches gets knocked out and misses like 4 games. He was throwing to true freshman and sophomore with almost no playing time all year. At the same time he kept Notre Dame in almost every game. It's all about context with him and this past season. He can make all the throws, can move around in the pocket and is a good runner. I'll take your word for it but the games I watched him I was always amazed people considered him a first round pick. Of course Watson doesn't impress me either so what do I know? I don't see a great QB with either. Mahomes is the guy I like but i don't know about him mentally If you just watched games this year without context I can certainly see why you would think that. It's not just my opinion as a bunch of experts have said Kizer has the highest ceiling in draft for a QB. He just needs to develop more as he only has two years of game experience. He's a smart kid, Gruden threw the book at him and he handled everything that came his way. Also Kelly handled him about as bad as any coach could. I just hope he goes to the right team. Watson needs to send Prescott a gift because he made him a ton of money. I think he can be OK, but his talent level made him look good. He would throw so so balls near Mike Williams and he would catch everything. Have those two players switch teams and Kizer is #1 pick. |
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 28, 2017 12:01:02 GMT -5
I think Cleveland is building it's team for the future. Get everything set and then grab Jimmy G. next year when he's a free agent. Of course, if Brady falls off a bit, they might franchise Jimmy. I like the Pats hanging on to Jimmy, just in case, and hanging on to Butler to give them a solid defense. Outside of injuries, who can beat them? They feel like the MFY back in the 50's. They've been doing that for almost 30 years now. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 28, 2017 12:02:15 GMT -5
I'd like him but I'm guessing Jones won't be available. Agree with UMass on the Edge players and another OTL Linebacker would be good too. Maybe Ryan Anderson at 74 and Alex Anzalone at 96? Those are some names that I keep reading about.
Tend to think some good developmental TE's will be available in the 4th. Been reading about Kittle and Sprinkle to name a few.
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