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4/3-4/6 Red Sox vs. Pirates Series Thread
rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 8:46:48 GMT -5
I still scratch my head seeing how Farrell trusts Robby Scott over Abad. I don't scratch my head over the decision, because it was the right one and I think Scott is better than Abad. Just confuses me that the Sox are basically ackowleging the fact that they knew Scott was better and they still tendered Abad a contract. They threw away 2 million dollars in a year where they need every penny saved against the CBT. Ohh well. Why does one have to do with the other? If the Sox like Abad as a solid bullpen option then $2m isn't a lot of money. It's not like it has to be Scott or Abad and they can't be on the same roster.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 8:52:08 GMT -5
Saw the Bennie Bomb on the highlights. My eyesight is pretty bad but that was either a 96 or 98 mph high and inside which he turned on precisely, the first game of the year like it was nothing. I think the highlight video said 98 mph. This kid's bat speed is under reported. I don't think that's really under - reported. He's the top ranked prospect in baseball, everyone and their mother has picked him to win Rookie of the year; some to so far as to suggest he can compete for a batting title already... it's all because of his bat and hit tool. Maybe you think people should be gushing specifically about his bat speed more regularly but it's hard for people to be higher on his bat, polish and hit tool than they have been. I really cannot remember scouts, writers and front office people being this confident in a players ability to hit in his rookie year. Hell the Red Sox have him hitting second on opening day and Xander sixth. If there is one thing we can say with certainty, it's that Beni hasn't been under sold. He would basically need to put up 6+ WAR to illicit conversation of "no one saw this coming."
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 8:56:48 GMT -5
I am never confident with Barnes and felt that, first game of the season, it would have been wise to remove Porcello after 6 giving our depleted, currently less than stellar pen, a clean start. I may be jumped on for this especially given the off-season effort and early on-field performance, but does it look like Pablo may have relaxed his caloric regimen just a bit? He was only at 81 pitches thru 6 and Porcello is a workhorse. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps you were thinking it at the time but I disagree with you if so. You don't take out your opening day starter who's been on cruise control after 6 with a that pitch count. 5 run lead in Fenway Park isn't much....
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 4, 2017 9:36:47 GMT -5
I am never confident with Barnes and felt that, first game of the season, it would have been wise to remove Porcello after 6 giving our depleted, currently less than stellar, pen a clean start. I may be jumped on for this especially given the off-season effort and early on-field performance, but does it look like Pablo may have relaxed his caloric regimen just a bit? He was only at 81 pitches thru 6 and Porcello is a workhorse. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps you were thinking it at the time but I disagree with you if so. You don't take out your opening day starter who's been on cruise control after 6 with a that pitch count. 5 run lead in Fenway Park isn't much.... It was the first game, Porcello looked a bit shaky in the 6th and we had Tuesday off. This was an opportunity to give the pen some work and give Rick a back pat. The pen is wobbly at present so I would prefer that whoever is summoned have a clean inning. I was listening on radio when Barnes came in with a run in and 2 on. Joe Castig mentioned Beni making a leaping grab of a liner to deep left that might have changed the game outcome had it landed. Even so 2 runs came in while Barnes pitched. It was a 'hairy' inning.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 4, 2017 9:45:02 GMT -5
Porcello looked a bit shaky in the 6th He struck out the last two batters he faced. Eight of his final 10 pitches were strikes. There was a guy on first base because of a throwing error (that Moreland should've handled). Other than the error, the last baserunner he allowed was a single in the third inning. I tend to be critical of Farrell for being long with his hooks, but come on.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 4, 2017 10:14:34 GMT -5
I was watching the first part of the 6th and I recall Porcello was losing his location....That made me think he might be getting tired. After that I went on an errand so I did not see him close out the 6th. Part of my feeling likely stems from the results Barnes produced. Either way it was a win and for that we should be (are) grateful.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 4, 2017 10:19:33 GMT -5
Saw the Bennie Bomb on the highlights. My eyesight is pretty bad but that was either a 96 or 98 mph high and inside which he turned on precisely, the first game of the year like it was nothing. I think the highlight video said 98 mph. This kid's bat speed is under reported. I don't think that's really under - reported. He's the top ranked prospect in baseball, everyone and their mother has picked him to win Rookie of the year; some to so far as to suggest he can compete for a batting title already... it's all because of his bat and hit tool. Maybe you think people should be gushing specifically about his bat speed more regularly but it's hard for people to be higher on his bat, polish and hit tool than they have been. I really cannot remember scouts, writers and front office people being this confident in a players ability to hit in his rookie year. Hell the Red Sox have him hitting second on opening day and Xander sixth. If there is one thing we can say with certainty, it's that Beni hasn't been under sold. He would basically need to put up 6+ WAR to illicit conversation of "no one saw this coming." TLG thinks he's going to be the next Stan Musial so he's probably getting underrated. Not that I disagree. At least he'll be the next Mookie.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 4, 2017 10:24:57 GMT -5
Not exactly sure how Benintendi could be rated more highly right now. Everyone thinks he's awesome right now and thinks he is going to be more awesome.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 4, 2017 11:46:46 GMT -5
We might want to look at the bright side of that game. That outfield is going to be spectacular. Offensively it will be right up there with Rice, Lynn, and Evans. Defensively, it should be superior. We can certainly critique individual players - I thought Barnes was a letdown since he was unable to hold those runners. But overall, this looks like a very good team, one that should get even better as pitchers come off the disabled list.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Apr 4, 2017 12:35:06 GMT -5
Of course Beni is highly rated but I haven't seen his BAT SPEED as specifically being highlighted that much either here or in the press. I'm sure it has been discussed some but to me it may even have improved as his strength has grown. It may be the most important factor in his success going forward. It's interesting also that his best exit velocity is for high inside pitches: baseballsavant.mlb.com/player?player_id=643217&player_type=batter Benintendi has finally gotten great street cred but I just wanted to flag that his bat speed may rival Mookie's even, which bodes so well for his future. I'm not saying he's Mookie or better than Mookie or the ludicrous Stan Musial comment. I just wanted to note that his bat speed had been UNDER REPORTED. A left handed hitter usually has better bat speed on low and inside pitches I would think. For example the David Ortiz chart below. Benintendi's hitting appears to be an anomaly in that regard. I am undecided if it is a plus but I think it is different. baseballsavant.mlb.com/player?player_id=120074&pos=D&player_type=batterBenintendi's exit velocity is still not better than Mookie's or at least it wasn't last year: baseballsavant.mlb.com/player?player_id=605141&pos=9&player_type=batterMaybe I'm reading the charts incorrectly but that is my understanding. Beni has a more acute launch angle and he seems to drive that high inside pitch well, as does Mookie of course. Will pitcher's reduce the number of high inside pitches to Beni as they probably are doing at this point with Mookie? If they do adjust in this way, will he start peppering the wall? It just seems all systems are go for Beni. He actually reminded me of Yaz some yesterday. Just that HR swing.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Apr 4, 2017 12:58:59 GMT -5
I sense hitting improvement for JBJ also. We have what may be the best young OF in baseball before they are through, hitting and defense.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 4, 2017 13:36:38 GMT -5
The safety in Benintendi and Mookie is that they don't strike out a lot, and they don't need to hit the ball that far to slug at a high percentage.
Also every time Benintendi hits the ball hard this month, "UNDER REPORTED" will instantly pop into my head.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 4, 2017 14:09:43 GMT -5
I know I was thinking I can't believe how long it's taken Benintendi to get great street cred. He was drafted in 2015... by the end of the year he was a top 15 prospect in baseball - less than a year later he was raking in the majors and playing cool hand Luke in the playoffs... now less than 2 years removed from college ball he's hitting second in one of the best lineups in baseball. What took so long for people to catch on?
Edit: sorry I couldn't resist.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 4, 2017 14:26:56 GMT -5
I still scratch my head seeing how Farrell trusts Robby Scott over Abad. I don't scratch my head over the decision, because it was the right one and I think Scott is better than Abad. Just confuses me that the Sox are basically ackowleging the fact that they knew Scott was better and they still tendered Abad a contract. They threw away 2 million dollars in a year where they need every penny saved against the CBT. Ohh well. Why does one have to do with the other? If the Sox like Abad as a solid bullpen option then $2m isn't a lot of money. It's not like it has to be Scott or Abad and they can't be on the same roster. It is a lot of money when you are 10 million dollars under the CBT or less. The Sox could of saved two million and went with the option they like better clearly in Robby Scott.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 4, 2017 14:31:38 GMT -5
Saw the Bennie Bomb on the highlights. My eyesight is pretty bad but that was either a 96 or 98 mph high and inside which he turned on precisely, the first game of the year like it was nothing. I think the highlight video said 98 mph. This kid's bat speed is under reported. I don't think that's really under - reported. He's the top ranked prospect in baseball, everyone and their mother has picked him to win Rookie of the year; some to so far as to suggest he can compete for a batting title already... it's all because of his bat and hit tool. Maybe you think people should be gushing specifically about his bat speed more regularly but it's hard for people to be higher on his bat, polish and hit tool than they have been. I really cannot remember scouts, writers and front office people being this confident in a players ability to hit in his rookie year. Hell the Red Sox have him hitting second on opening day and Xander sixth. If there is one thing we can say with certainty, it's that Beni hasn't been under sold. He would basically need to put up 6+ WAR to illicit conversation of "no one saw this coming." While I agree with everything you said, I do want to give lavarnwayguy credit for being a Benintendi booster all along. I've always been high on him, because I'm a huge hit tool fan over everything else, but I wanted to see him hit at higher levels before anointing him a future All-Star. Maybe some of lavarnwayguy's perception of underappreciated batspeed is from early in Beni's meteoric rise, but I think his statement is at least partially accurate in that doubts about Beni's power (which I held and still do, to the extent that I'm not sure if he's a 60+ power guy) were in spite of his superb batspeed. He's been pulling 95-99 since he hit the scene. He ripped 98 from Cole no problem.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 4, 2017 15:26:34 GMT -5
I don't think that's really under - reported. He's the top ranked prospect in baseball, everyone and their mother has picked him to win Rookie of the year; some to so far as to suggest he can compete for a batting title already... it's all because of his bat and hit tool. Maybe you think people should be gushing specifically about his bat speed more regularly but it's hard for people to be higher on his bat, polish and hit tool than they have been. I really cannot remember scouts, writers and front office people being this confident in a players ability to hit in his rookie year. Hell the Red Sox have him hitting second on opening day and Xander sixth. If there is one thing we can say with certainty, it's that Beni hasn't been under sold. He would basically need to put up 6+ WAR to illicit conversation of "no one saw this coming." While I agree with everything you said, I do want to give lavarnwayguy credit for being a Benintendi booster all along. I've always been high on him, because I'm a huge hit tool fan over everything else, but I wanted to see him hit at higher levels before anointing him a future All-Star. Maybe some of lavarnwayguy's perception of underappreciated batspeed is from early in Beni's meteoric rise, but I think his statement is at least partially accurate in that doubts about Beni's power (which I held and still do, to the extent that I'm not sure if he's a 60+ power guy) were in spite of his superb batspeed. He's been pulling 95-99 since he hit the scene. He ripped 98 from Cole no problem. That pitch would have ranked 3rd fastest hit for a HR by a Red Sox player last year. I realize how important bat speed is, but also sitting on the right pitch makes your bat speed look faster. He got fooled on the same pitch two pitches earlier so he was likely sitting on it. But knowing what the pitcher is going to throw is another baseball skill, one that Papi was the best in the league at.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 4, 2017 17:04:37 GMT -5
While I agree with everything you said, I do want to give lavarnwayguy credit for being a Benintendi booster all along. I've always been high on him, because I'm a huge hit tool fan over everything else, but I wanted to see him hit at higher levels before anointing him a future All-Star. Maybe some of lavarnwayguy's perception of underappreciated batspeed is from early in Beni's meteoric rise, but I think his statement is at least partially accurate in that doubts about Beni's power (which I held and still do, to the extent that I'm not sure if he's a 60+ power guy) were in spite of his superb batspeed. He's been pulling 95-99 since he hit the scene. He ripped 98 from Cole no problem. That pitch would have ranked 3rd fastest hit for a HR by a Red Sox player last year. I realize how important bat speed is, but also sitting on the right pitch makes your bat speed look faster. He got fooled on the same pitch two pitches earlier so he was likely sitting on it. But knowing what the pitcher is going to throw is another baseball skill, one that Papi was the best in the league at. Yeah, Cole got him with 97 earlier in that AB in almost the same spot, so you're right. I also agree that Benintendi may be one of those guys like Papi or Manny who knows how to set up pitchers.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 4, 2017 20:49:31 GMT -5
That pitch would have ranked 3rd fastest hit for a HR by a Red Sox player last year. I realize how important bat speed is, but also sitting on the right pitch makes your bat speed look faster. He got fooled on the same pitch two pitches earlier so he was likely sitting on it. But knowing what the pitcher is going to throw is another baseball skill, one that Papi was the best in the league at. Yeah, Cole got him with 97 earlier in that AB in almost the same spot, so you're right. I also agree that Benintendi may be one of those guys like Papi or Manny who knows how to set up pitchers. Benintendi has a long way to go to even be half as smart as Ortiz and Manny were as hitters. These 2 were 3 of the smartest hitters in franchise history, only Williams could be smarter than Ortiz and Manny. For example here's a story last year of a story of Ortiz- Ortiz hit a homerun off Kevin Gausman last year when Gausman hit 98 mph on the gun when Gausman was near the end of his start that night. Ortiz explained how he remembered that he struck out Xander 2-3 WEEKS PRIOR on a similar pitch where Gausman ramped up his velocity towards the end of that outing. Ortiz and Manny didn't just set up pitchers from their at bats game to game, they saw how they set up everyone at all times.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 4, 2017 21:53:10 GMT -5
I know I was thinking I can't believe how long it's taken Benintendi to get great street cred. He was drafted in 2015... by the end of the year he was a top 15 prospect in baseball - less than a year later he was raking in the majors and playing cool hand Luke in the playoffs... now less than 2 years removed from college ball he's hitting second in one of the best lineups in baseball. What took so long for people to catch on? Edit: sorry I couldn't resist. Too many people ignored the fact he won the Golden Spikes Award and thought hitting in Greenville was more difficult. Lavarnway wasn't the only one who thought Beni was a great prospect. Remember this thread? forum.soxprospects.com/thread/2997/margot-benintendi-debate
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Apr 4, 2017 21:56:58 GMT -5
I know I was thinking I can't believe how long it's taken Benintendi to get great street cred. He was drafted in 2015... by the end of the year he was a top 15 prospect in baseball - less than a year later he was raking in the majors and playing cool hand Luke in the playoffs... now less than 2 years removed from college ball he's hitting second in one of the best lineups in baseball. What took so long for people to catch on? Edit: sorry I couldn't resist. It's ok! ( really, I'm used to it now and don't even mind any more. I'm thelavarnway guy and ever shall be. It's fun to put me down even when I'm actually right. ) Some of us had Beni as our #1 prospect over a year ago when most people were gaga for Moncada. Sorry! Couldn't resist! Really though, no doubt it was a meteoric rise but HELLO, what took many of YOU so long. The guy just crushed a HIGH AND INSIDE 98 MPH fastball out of the park on opening day. How often do our guys hit anything over 98 MPH let alone a HR? Especially a high and inside fastball. Beni is for real and has been for a very long time. He was driving the ball in college and immediately in the minors and consistently showing every indication of being for real. I think he's going to have a great year with Mookie hitting behind him and Pedey on base in front of him. Edit: I should have read farther before commenting. Thanks for the nice things said. I do appreciate it! All I want is to come here without being ridiculed for no reason. That should be achievable. I don't even comment that much any more.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 4, 2017 22:45:34 GMT -5
Yeah, Cole got him with 97 earlier in that AB in almost the same spot, so you're right. I also agree that Benintendi may be one of those guys like Papi or Manny who knows how to set up pitchers. Benintendi has a long way to go to even be half as smart as Ortiz and Manny were as hitters. These 2 were 3 of the smartest hitters in franchise history, only Williams could be smarter than Ortiz and Manny. For example here's a story last year of a story of Ortiz- Ortiz hit a homerun off Kevin Gausman last year when Gausman hit 98 mph on the gun when Gausman was near the end of his start that night. Ortiz explained how he remembered that he struck out Xander 2-3 WEEKS PRIOR on a similar pitch where Gausman ramped up his velocity towards the end of that outing. Ortiz and Manny didn't just set up pitchers from their at bats game to game, they saw how they set up everyone at all times. Exactly, which is why I said "may be." It wouldn't be fair or reasonable to *equate* a 22-y/o rookie with experienced HOF-caliber hitters. But I'm comfortable projecting that sort of genius...an almost preternatural sense of the game, like a chess grandmaster, thinking multiple moves ahead (and, as you mention, across lengthy timeframes). While I think it's a skill like any other that can be learned to an extent, the highest degrees of mastery are almost invariably determined by innate talent. It's going to take years and years for him to develop that skill, if he does. There's no substitute for experience. However, he has proven to be a precocious hitter with outstanding bat speed and bat control, who repeatedly identifies hard stuff inside that he can turn on and drive. All of which bodes well for him continuing to develop as a hitter, beyond good to elite. I'm still not sold on him hitting 25-30 bombs regularly, but I won't be remotely surprised if he has a stretch of years where he hits .320-.350. I still think the best batter comp in terms of style, size, and swing is a young Mattingly. I just hope Beni's back (or legs, since that seems to have been his issue so far) hold up.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 5, 2017 6:32:23 GMT -5
Big Sale today....all pirates must go.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 5, 2017 6:40:36 GMT -5
I know Barnes has lacked consistency, has been tantalizing, all that jazz. However, this is probably the year where we will find out if there is a top shelf reliever in his skill set. Surprised to see all the negative commentary on one outing. Reeks of confirmation bias.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 5, 2017 6:58:56 GMT -5
It's reclamation bias. He flamed out as a starter and the hope, for some of us, is that he can cut it as a reliever. Turning a comfortable game into a close one isn't the way to keep that (smaller) flame burning.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 5, 2017 7:12:27 GMT -5
It's reclamation bias. He flamed out as a starter and the hope, for some of us, is that he can cut it as a reliever. Turning a comfortable game into a close one isn't the way to keep that (smaller) flame burning. Agreed. I would hope that folks would just allow for more than 1 outing before starting on the veiled DFA Barnes narrative.
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